Apple's Arm-Based Macs With Apple Silicon Chips Will Support Thunderbolt

[johngwheeler]

Let's leave ARM where it belongs, in compromised mobile devices. If you want a RISC CPU in a laptop or desktop, go for one that doesn't have a history of being in mobile devices.

Or alternatively, look for a RISC chip design which has been hugely successful with 25% year-on-year performance improvements, and base your new CPU on this. Oh wait....
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If Apple screws something up in the CPU, it's going to fall on their heads.

Well, yes, obviously! One would hope that Apple have been testing it pretty thoroughly....

In any case, the basis of the new Apple Silicon is very likely to be their Ax SoCs, and these have been very thoroughly tested in real products for many years.
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Keeping a standard in the industry. Plus, Apple wouldn't have as much of a problem if Macs weren't as thin.

If we never moved away from standards, there would be no innovation.

As Henry Ford said: "“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”
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There is always the chance of something going wrong.

Exactly! I suggest you immediately wrap yourself in bubble-wrap, and never leave home again.

 

[IvanW]

Well supporting Thunderbolt does not equate to supporting eGPU.. once AMD driver shipped with future macOS is limited to select cards and/or Apple platforms, off-the-shelf eGPU is gone with that. Hope that’s just my own imagination

 

[Azrael9]

Soon enough macOS will only support Metal when it comes to graphics APIs and considering how optimized Apple Silicon is (and will be) for Metal, non-Apple GPUs may very well not be competitive.

Agreed.

I expect Apple's own gpus will be far more efficicent with Metal api giving them considerable reach. That optimised AS for Metal will provide real world improvements for the Mac computer user in terms of interface, apps and specific workloads eg 4k stream play back.

That 'iPad Smoothness' of the device feeling snappy and quick...responsive. We can expect some of that immersion.

Azrael.

 

[Catman8976]

Or alternatively, look for a RISC chip design which has been hugely successful with 25% year-on-year performance improvements, and base your new CPU on this. Oh wait....
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Well, yes, obviously! One would hope that Apple have been testing it pretty thoroughly....

In any case, the basis of the new Apple Silicon is very likely to be their Ax SoCs, and these have been very thoroughly tested in real products for many years.
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If we never moved away from standards, there would be no innovation.

As Henry Ford said: "“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”
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Exactly! I suggest you immediately wrap yourself in bubble-wrap, and never leave home again.

Alternatively make a new architecture. Progress is important, but sometimes it is pushed too far.

"Exactly! I suggest you immediately wrap yourself in bubble-wrap, and never leave home again." = Basically every single Apple fan boy with their Apple products.

 

[otternonsense]

Now let's hope they get rid of the awful Touch Bar.

I was just about to write the same thing. At least make that gimmicky trash optional, for the 10 people who want to mod the hell out of it and to convince everyone else it's "useful"

 

[robinp]

Now let's hope they get rid of the awful Touch Bar.

I really didn’t like it on my 2018 13” MBP. So many problems with that machine it went back. My 16”, with escape key and separate Touch ID is fine. I honestly never used the F keys so I don’t really mind it now although I can’t help feeling it is adding unnecessary expense to the machines. I didn’t use the F Keys and I basically don’t use the Touch Bar.

 

[SarcasticJoe]

Now let's hope they get rid of the awful Touch Bar.

Seeing how the whole thing always reeked of a desperate measure to differentiate the Macbook Pro line after every other manufacturer making premium laptops had copied the unibody construction and the high dpi display they could actually do that.

Then again they might not and I may be letting my hatred of the damn gimmick cloud my judgement. I hate it (and the keyboard they recently reverted from) so much that last time I upgraded my laptop I deliberately went for a second hand machine from before this stupidity started. I'd had 3 15" Macbook Pro's all bought brand new at that point, but I'll probably never buy another.

 

[Wokis]

The Touch Bar becomes pretty useful when an app makes use of it. I like what Blackmagic did with it in DaVinci Resolve. Hope they keep it.

 

[nylonsteel]

good - one less thing to worry about

 

[theluggage]

Makes sense, but it would nice if Apple could release an updated Dev Kit for developers like Universal Audio who depend on Thunderbolt to access their DSP hardware. I'd like UA to get started on this transition sooner rather than later.

The dev kit is just what Apple can make and ship today - with off-the-shelf parts - for the "gross" job of building and testing software on ARM. It's very likely that the A12 iPad chip can't support Thunderbolt and it will have to wait for the new chips to be available in quantity (I'm sure Apple have prototype silicon by now and I'm sure that the cost of each prototype is stratospheric). Hardware makers will need to test their stuff on prototype "real" hardware (or wait until the real machine) and hopefully Apple will support them there.

Frankly, though, if you're doing audio (or other pro work) I wouldn't plan on queueing up to be the first to get an ARM Mac, any more than you should rush to install the latest MacOS on release day, given that it usually takes a few months for all the plug-in and driver makers to even catch up with a new OS release...

 

[theluggage]

I believe the technology Intel has announced for "Thunderbolt 4" does not actually change USB4 - it just places quality requirements in terms of bandwidth, charging, device functionality, and security.

Reading between the lines it sounds like USB4 is just going to be an a la carte menu of optional features that you might find on a "USB4 port" (which could get by with just USB 2.0 and the bare minimum power delivery) whereas Thunderbolt 4 won't add anything new but will mandate many of the USB4 options (like extended power delivery, USB 3.1, 20Gbps-per-lane data transfer, and backwards compatibility with Thunderbolt devices). It would be nice to think that Intel will also impose strict QA and certification standards rather than just letting makers self-certify and hand over the licensing money.

(*I read somewhere that full TB1/2/3 compatibility will require the USB4 device to support certain "legacy" clock rates which aren't a mandatory part of the USB4 standard - confusion, thy name is USB).

 

[justin216]

On eGPUs: Now the question will be, with that Thunderbolt hardware support, which OEMs will provide drivers to interoperate between an ARM64 ISA and their hardware? Will AMD start creating ARM64 ISA Mac drivers? nVidia is out of the question I expect.

Thunderbolt is used for a whole lot more than just eGPUs, and while the hardware will be there, the driver support is what I question. Could very well be that Thunderbolt display and storage options will work seamlessly, but not much else. But, here's to hope!

 

[thekumar]

Now let's hope they get rid of the awful Touch Bar.

I think touchscreen Macs are launching soon. On the BigSur Preview page, the animation used for Safari's Improved Tabs section shows an iPad-esque touch cursor instead of a pointer... sneaky.

 

[redpandadev]

I wish I had an ounce of gold for every time I accidentally hit the Touch Bar Siri. I'm like you though, it's there, but I seldom remember to use. It's just not ergonomically convenient, and I'd rather see technology that is.

Even without any third party tools, you can easily configure the Touch Bar to avoid this.

 

[baryon]

I mean, they better freaking do. That would be a very Apple move to get everyone to painfully invest into Thunderbolt because "it's the future" only to then have to buy $120 adapters to use them a few years later.

 

[otternonsense]

I really didn’t like it on my 2018 13” MBP. So many problems with that machine it went back. My 16”, with escape key and separate Touch ID is fine. I honestly never used the F keys so I don’t really mind it now although I can’t help feeling it is adding unnecessary expense to the machines. I didn’t use the F Keys and I basically don’t use the Touch Bar.

So I suppose you never needed to control brightness, volume, skip music tracks etc?

The F row is fine for basic functions, and the benefit of a physical row is that it builds muscle memory. Or, you can simply rest your fingers on it and nothing happens. Which isn't the case with an ultra sensitive glass strip that reacts to every little brush of your finger, whether you realise it or not, and gives no tactile feedback.

And last, even if it was the most intuitive thing ever, it's already DOA for most power users because they simply don't look at their keyboards and this thing is forcing you to break focus and look down.
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I mean, they better freaking do. That would be a very Apple move to get everyone to painfully invest into Thunderbolt because "it's the future" only to then have to buy $120 adapters to use them a few years later.

All while this "future" hasn't really arrived yet and we're still all living the #donglelife

 

[wood1208]

With TB4 supporting USB4, we can converge to one standard physical as well protocol across the board on all future computers.

 

[hayesk]

The TouchBar can't do anything a touch screen wouldn't do as well or better.

Here's a counter example: when developing in Xcode: try to bring up the view debugger an auto-hiding NSPanel in your app when Xcode is obscured by your app windows. If you switch to Xcode with the keyboard or touch screen, the NSPanel closes and it's too late to grab the debugger.

The touchbar is great for manipulating things on screen where touching the screen would interfere in ways other than the intended purpose.

Regarding the touch typist argument, I wonder how many people touch-type their F-keys. Most I know have them set to brightness, expose, media control, etc. which aren't pressed often enough to require touch typing.

 

[star-affinity]

I enjoyed the Touch Bar after installing Better Touch Tool but overall, I hardly use it except when I accidentally hit the Siri button when touch-typing the delete key. At this point I'd rather have the old function keys back.

The accidental presses on the touch bar is its biggest drawback to me. If there was a way to get it to require a physical (haptic) press I think it would be a lot better.

I like the idea of having different functions there depending on the active application. How it works in Logic Pro X is pretty cool I think.

 

[cr2]

Admittedly I have some awesome setup for apps with Better Touch Tool.

Can you please explain? Is it an app feature or have you programmed/customized the touch-bar? Thanks.

 

[alexandr]

How about they make the Touch Bar more functional AND add back the tactile function below it? Best of both worlds!

sorry, you mean like pressure sensitivity?(never used the touch bar)

 

[Chaos215bar2]

it's interesting that some people hate on this... just because it doesn't fit their needs or they can't be bothered to find out what it can do....

It's cool that the Touch Bar works for you. Next step: Not assuming people are idiots just because they came to the opposite conclusion.

 

[insoft.uk]

Thunderbolt now USB-C 4 in a way, as USB 4 is based on thunderbolt and USB while invented by Intel inspired from ADB I think by time USB 5 arrives the thunderbolt name will be dropped and USB is long dead as we moved onto USB it’s all realy messed up in reality those that have Thunderbolt now in away have USB4 and I bet the next thunderbolt is just called USB5 as it replaced USB like Windows XP was NT as well as Vista 7 8 8.1 10

 

[1989MacSE30]

The touch bar is that that bad. It was not necessary and it is a feature we can live without, but well implemented is good.

I love the Touch Bar. I only wish I could get a keyboard for the iMac with it. Function keys have been a waste of real estate since 1981 for me. Who remembers what they do in each program? An easy, contextual set of options in easy reach that consumes zero screen real estate is wonderful.
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It's cool that the Touch Bar works for you. Next step: Not assuming people are idiots just because they came to the opposite conclusion.

I think it’s the vitriol of the anti-Touch Bar folks that is vexing. Many act as if it could never be useful for anyone when, in fact, many of us enjoy it as a productivity tool. I don’t see anyone calling them idiots. Maybe try reading what the OP actually wrote?

 

[VictorTango777]

Some Thunderbolt 3 and USB-C docks have multiple DisplayPort/HDMI outputs which work through DisplayPort MST. Using a Mac with these products results in only one monitor working, or all monitors showing the same thing. But no extended desktop like in Windows. MST has been part of the DisplayPort standard for several years. Why does MacOS still not support MST for daisy chained DP monitors, MST hubs, and multimonitor adapters? Is this some petty attempt by Apple to "convince" people to buy Thunderbolt monitors?