Apple's Face ID Turns Android Makers Away From Under-Screen Fingerprint Recognition

[iSayBoourns]

We also saw leaks with touchid at the back

Leaks that were more than likely China knockoff phones.

There have been “iPhone 8” (what the 10 was actually referred to as at the time) knockoffs for purchase for many months already. And even multiple iterations as the rumours kept changing.
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We don’t know those were legit. Could’ve been Chinese knockoffs based on rumors.

Exactly

 

[palmerc2]

If the X had a home button on the side I might have been more receptive to getting it.

 

[iSayBoourns]

If the X had a home button on the side I might have been more receptive to getting it.

Some of the Home Button functions have moved to the side button (sleep/wake button) like press and holding for Siri and double press for Wallet.

The gesture “Home Button” to leave an app or activate the app switcher makes sense when you look at it as it doesn’t change where the user (and is used to over the many years) needs to place their thumb to do those functions. Someone may not like it, but it at least makes sense how they’ve implemented it.

 

[jamesrick80]

Way to skip steps purposely in your TouchID scenario. (Taking the phone out is required in both cases)

TouchID:
- take phone out
- use finger to authenticate
- place phone on terminal

FaceID:
- take phone out
- use face to authenticate
- place phone on terminal

Steps required are the same.

Doesn't face ID require you to swipe up or something before it even opens your home screen.....after it unlocks. Thats one more step.

 

[QCassidy352]

Except the failed to get Touch ID implemented under the screen was a rumor not fact. It seems to me people who are skeptical about Face ID or prefer Touch ID want to believe the rumors and this is just spin from Apple. It’s not based on facts though.

There are no publicly known "facts" to support either version of events. But I find it very suspicious that the story changed after production began. If the intention was always to replace Touch ID with Face ID, when did that story only leak out once it became apparent that Apple had run out of time to make Touch ID work?

And for what it's worth, I do love Touch ID, but Face ID sounds good too. I want them both as options.

 

[iSayBoourns]

Doesn't face ID require you to swipe up or something before it even opens your home screen.....after it unlocks. Thats one more step.

Since when does Apple Pay require to be on the home screen? So no, it is not one more step.

 

[DogHouseDub]

You'll get my fingerprint sensor and handphone jack when you pry the 6S from my cold, dead hands...

 

[iSayBoourns]

You'll get my fingerprint sensor and handphone jack when you pry the 6S from my cold, dead hands...

Good luck in 2020 when your device is longer supported and pretty much every smartphone manufacturer has moved on as well.

It’s funny the lengths people will go to to cling onto something that is/will no longer be needed. You’re willing to sacrifice all hardware and software updates, even years down the road for unnecessary ports and an earlier method of authentication.

 

[PickUrPoison]

I've come to the realization that Apple has carefully crafted their Reality distortion field to follow a very American style "win at all cost" mentality.

That means, there can only be 1 way to do anything, and that way is the right way and that way is the winning way. Apple pushes this message and this mentality regularly.

its manifesting itself now again with the faceID v ToucHID. FaceID is not a bad thing. adding more security options is great for us as the user. And I get there was a technical limitation here preventing touchID.

But to suddenly think that there can only be FaceID or TouchID and not both? I don't understand why people think this way. if Apple can figure out to have both, we all win. So why do so many people jump immediately ot Apple's defense here and say "FACEID IS BETTER (without usign it), so TouchID is now garbage and so ancient!"

anyone who is currently attacking touchID in favour of FaceID is following Apple marketing hook line and sinker, since faceID isn't even in users hands yet.

Apple has a strong track record of introducing new technology that works. They think FaceID is better for more users more of the time than is TouchID. They think they’ve got a new feature users will love, time will tell.

But Apple still offers TouchID in the just-released iPhone 8, which directly contradicts your first three paragraphs. It seems like you’ve got yourself all worked up about nothing. Why not try FaceID for yourself before deciding Apple shouldn’t move on from TouchID?

 

[symphara]

If it takes Android makers 2.5 years to implement face-tracking poop emojis, I'm very happy with that. There's no rush guys.

As for authentication, I don't care about in-glass at all. I want the sensor on the back, where my index finger goes. I'd rather they spent the money on everything else.

 

[JM]

Apple bought Xbox Kinect so nobody will be as good.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

Finger ID system on by Apple is NOT A single component system. It works in conjunction with the secure enclave on the main chip. That’s what makes it superior to other print systems.

I didn't say it was a single-component system. I said it was single-purpose. You can't use Touch ID for anything other than identity verification. The array of sensors in Face ID can be used for 2-D and 3-D imaging, AR, gesture/expression-based control of UI, and more.

Meantime, whether Touch ID or Face ID, the secure enclave is a part of the identity-validation system.

 

[deanthedev]

If it takes Android makers 2.5 years to implement face-tracking poop emojis, I'm very happy with that. There's no rush guys.

Will you also be happy to wait 2+ years for Samsung or Qualcomm to develop a processor that can match the A11 I can get today?
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Apple bought Xbox Kinect so nobody will be as good.

The bigger question is why didn’t Microsoft buy them?

 

[PickUrPoison]

Face ID also requires additional effort - you have to hold it up to your face. If I am in a meeting and want to discreetly check my messages, with TouchID I can unlock the phone under the table without even looking then take a quick glance, with FaceID I would have to hold it up where it can see me, make the appropriate interest expression, then look at the message. Its far less discrete and more effort. No thank you.

You may think you’re being discreet staring down under the table with your hands on your lap, but really, you’re not fooling anyone. Everyone notices, and they think you’re playing on your phone.

There’s nothing wrong with having your phone on the table when doing a quick check of email or texts. When you try to hide it under the table, everyone just assumes you’re on Facebook or Instagram or whatever, and so that’s why you’re trying to hide it.

 

[JetBlack7]

...and join us next year, where Fandroids will say Android already thought of that and it was Apple that stole the idea!

 

[The Game 161]

If this works as well as Apple hope then I can see why as on paper it is the future.

 

[symphara]

Will you also be happy to wait 2+ years for Samsung or Qualcomm to develop a processor that can match the A11 I can get today?

Match it at what? Synthetic benchmarks? I don't care about that, why would I?

I think most of today's phones offer a good experience, starting with mid-rangers, and in particular all flagships. I don't find Apple's experience better because of the CPU, I find it much worse because of the OS and the many restrictions Apple's greed puts around them.

To put in in context, I find the speed of my P9 very close to my 10.5" iPad Pro. I don't have any complaints about the speed of the phone, it's fine, and it's using a Kirin 955, which is somewhere close to a Snapdragon 821. Putting in an i7 wouldn't make the phone any better. Putting iOS on it would make it much slower in real use, since more taps and swipes are required to do just about anything, it stops being customizable, and becomes much more restricted in what I can and cannot do with it.

 

[PickUrPoison]

I have nothing against Face ID as such in terms of how it works. It is more the fact that it basically requires "the notch", which results in a smaller phone footprint to useful screen size ratio, and that for me at least is a significant negative. Touch ID under the screen would enable all of the screen to be used.

No, there would still be a notch for the camera, proximity sensor, speaker and iirc there’s also a microphone up there.

 

[iSayBoourns]

If this works as well as Apple hope then I can see why as on paper it is the future.

It won’t be perfect, and there will no doubt be some people on day one here on MR posting about it failed a few times (probably after going out of their way to make it fail.)

Nothing is perfect and neither is TouchID. TouchID today fails for many people on a daily basis, multiple times a day.

 

[symphara]

Finger ID system on by Apple is NOT A single component system. It works in conjunction with the secure enclave on the main chip. That’s what makes it superior to other print systems.

I love Apple's ability to do marketing bs. I really do. They could sell crap and people would buy it thinking it's the most special, amazing chocolate ever made.

Android Imprint has the same requirement, the fingerprint recognition works in a trusted execution module. It's just not called a "secure enclave".

From the requirements: "have a hardware-backed keystore implementation, and perform the fingerprint matching in a Trusted Execution Environment (TEE) or on a chip with a secure channel to the TEE"

 

[Wowereit]

“Revolutionary”
“Others are following”

Wait a second! I’ve been reading these forums forever and I thought Apple doesn’t innovate anymore. I’m totally confused...

Oh, they are obviously following.
Manufacturers have a giant "Apple complex" and desperately copy them. Deep in their hearts they know that they are fanboys and want to be just like them. Truly a bunch of betas following the alpha.

Problem is: you can't draw conclusions about level of innovation or quality out of their blind following.
They are just copying the good and bad of Apple.

 

[talones]

I Want My Touch ID and I will keep my touch ID.

I think in 10 years people will be laughing at the fact that you used to use a fingerprint to verify your identity. Obviously I think this was a design decision, but ideally technology should be able to very your identity without ever interfering with the person. Hopefully faceID isnt too much of a burden.
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Oh, they are obviously following.
Manufacturers have a giant "Apple complex" and desperately copy them. Deep in their hearts they know that they are fanboys and want to be just like them. Truly a bunch of betas following the alpha.

Problem is: you can't draw conclusions about level of innovation or quality out of their blind following.
They are just copying the good and bad of Apple.

Fingerprint sensor.. COPIED. Dual Camera... COPIED, Portrait mode... COPIED, Remove headphone jack... COPIED, Remove fingerprint sensor... COPIED. It is hilarious how much they follow.

 

[symphara]

Dual Camera... COPIED, Portrait mode... COPIED, Remove headphone jack... COPIED, Remove fingerprint sensor... COPIED. It is hilarious how much they follow.

You are factually incorrect, and hilariously so.

My phone (Huawei P9) was released in April 2016 with dual camera - done in collaboration with Leica - and a controllable wide aperture mode. The iPhone 7 Plus was released in September 2016 with dual camera. A more restricted version of the wide aperture mode called "portrait mode" was advertised at the time but was not available at release.

LeEco announced in April 2016 their new phone range without handphone jacks, using USB-C audio instead. They advertised active noise cancellation without a headphone battery.

The fingerprint sensors were not removed. All the Android flagships have them, and there are no plans that anyone knows of to move to a slower and more awkward face scanning technology.

 

[flat five]

There are no publicly known "facts" to support either version of events. But I find it very suspicious that the story changed after production began. If the intention was always to replace Touch ID with Face ID, when did that story only leak out once it became apparent that Apple had run out of time to make Touch ID work?

And for what it's worth, I do love Touch ID, but Face ID sounds good too. I want them both as options.

there were leaks as far back as last summer (2016) saying the iphone 8(X) may not have touchID.
there were leaks this summer which pretty much show the actual X / no touch ID.
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/07/03/ming-chi-kuo-iphone-omit-touch-id/

(on a phone now.. can’t really search the archives as i could on a computer.. but they’re here)

there were also leaks earlier this year stating Apple/TSMC figured out touchID under the display.

it’s highly likely Apple already knows how to do touchID under the display.

especially when considering another Kuo report saying if faceID doesn’t prove popular with consumers, Apple will bring back touchID except under the screen..
so, how could they have that as a fallback plan if they don’t know how to do it?

 

[840quadra]

Amazing how many people are passing Judgement on FaceID, before it is even released to the public.

The crass comments remind me of the time before TouchID was released to the public, or anyone had a chance to try it personally. Funny thing is, how many phones have fingerprint sensors now. And yes, I know, some existed before iPhone, they weren't first here.

Fingerprint sensors are great, I am not convinced FaceID will be great, but won't pass judgement until I try it.