Apple's Face ID Turns Android Makers Away From Under-Screen Fingerprint Recognition

[Suxamethonium]

Of course we won't actually know until you try it, but they have said it can handle scarfs wrapped arround a face. If it can do a scarf it isn't a stretch to think it can do mask too. That said, the picture they use has a guy wearing a scarf the way (I assume) they do in California.

In New England we cover our nose with scarves because

Of course TouchID works brilliantly through thick winter gloves

 

[jdawgnoonan]

And the industry adapted. We got Steam, music streaming and cloud storage.

This is what I mean. People being incapable of looking beyond the change (removal of cd drive in this case) and understanding how the industry changes in response to effect a net positive for all of us (shift to cloud computing).

Given how the drive is thicker than certain laptops, how many people will even want it back given the choice?

I was happy to no longer have a cd/dvd drive.

 

[Regbial]

Pathetic. *making the classic Asuka face*

 

[djgamble]

I’ve backed Purism’s Librem 5 and will hopefully be moving away from he iPhone/Android world very soon (it is 90% funded, Duck Duck Go it if you are interested in a proper Linux phone with a focus on security and privacy!)

Can’t say I care about such features. Google and Apple are competing purely on gimmicks rather than real features. It’s soooo lame!!
[doublepost=1507428401][/doublepost]

TouchID is gone. Just like the headphone jack is. Accept it and move on. There's always the 8/8 Plus (and older Apple devices) that still uses it.

So are RAM slots and removable HDs. Or are they?

I feel isolated as a 30+ year Apple fanatic. In a past life EVERYTHING needed to be Apple. Now I’m bored and frustrated by their direction. Still love their OS, but is that enough? I don’t HATE the alternatives like I used to.

 

[Abazigal]

Go cut a tree with your iphone

 

[samer.forums]

Are people ever happy?
I want a headphone jack!!!
I don't want a headphone jack!!!!
I want touch ID!!!
I don't want touch ID!!
I don't want face recognition ID!!
I want face recognition ID!!

I personally want my iPod classic with a 1TB SSD that gets past the 30,000 song limit.

you will die before listening to all those 30,000 songs anyway ...

 

[Ghost31]

This is the next "3D TV", and hopefully ends soon.

TouchID forever!

This comment won’t age well
[doublepost=1507429742][/doublepost]

Be prepared to keep blowing off $1,000 every year or two for the Face ID embedded iPhone, or $100 or more per month on the carrier plan. It'll get worse when it comes to iPad which will cost even more. Never praise Apple for getting away with things they think is 'trendy'.

People like you give Apple the wrong impression that it's 'okay to get away with charging $1000 just for Face ID'.

And when they ditch Touch ID, you will wish they kept it. You're paying $1,000 for the exact same OS that's across all devices that were updated for FREE annually. The only difference are the cameras and Face ID. Wireless charging is nothing and ancient news with Qi technology. Nothing revolutionary but something that Apple should have done about 3 years ago.

They don't wait to get it right, they wait until the LAST MINUTE to get it out there. There's a pattern to it. Pay close attention.

“How dare that company get away with making products I can’t afford. How dare they!!”

Just live off the grid already man
[doublepost=1507429954][/doublepost]Just for the Macrumors historians, this is how it’s gonna go. Just like in the past

2017: I hate face id! It’s not as good as Touch ID

2018: I tried it. And I don’t hate it. I’m actually pretty surprised

2019: why isn’t there faceid on all my other apple devices?? Come on apple! I feel like such a savage having to put my thumb on a specific area of my device now just to unlock it. GIMME FACEID IPAD AND MAC

2020: Touch ID and the resistance consumers had to giving it up is now looked at as an example of how consumers have no vision and really have no idea what they really want

 

[Cosmosent]

I don't believe Kuo and I don't believe Gruber.

I find it more than interesting that Kuo is now always defending Apple and giving them the benefit of the doubt.

In the real world, we simply call it Marketing Spin.

Steve Jobs (indirectly) gave it a different name, Distorted Reality !

The ONLY REASON Apple did NOT include Touch ID under Glass is because they could NOT get it working by the Intro date of the iPhone X !

It was a difficult Engineering Challenge, and they are still working on it !

Face ID will quickly become a Novelty the very day the first mobile device manufacturer can Demo viable & credible Touch ID under Glass ... that may be Apple, or it may be someone else.

I don't think Kuo has any credibility anymore !

Next year's 8s & 8s+ will very-likely include a Rear-facing TrueDepth camera, AND next year's Xs will very-likely ALSO include Touch ID under Glass.

NOT Rocket Science, anybody with half a brain should be able to figure this out.

 

[Ralfi]

This comment won’t age well
[doublepost=1507429742][/doublepost]

Like a fine whine.

 

[flat five]

Yes, leaks saying it might not have Touch ID because they couldn't make it work, not because they wanted to replace it.

From the very article you linked:


As I've been saying, the chatter before release was that Apple wanted Touch ID under the screen and couldn't make it work, NOT that they always intended to replace Touch ID with Face ID. And the link you posted supports that point entirely.

heh.. like i said.. i was on a phone and searching for the past articles isn't so good that way

but yeah, you have to go further back than the one i linked to.. dec/January 2017

it's at that time, the rumors were about under screen touchID being fully replaced by faceID.. or, a combo of the two IF Apple couldn't get faceID secure enough in time..

like, the way the reports were written was opposite of what you're saying.. that faceID was the problem needing figuring out.. not under screen touchID..

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/01/21/apple-touch-id-facial-recognition-iphone-8/

Notably, Kuo believes the fingerprint recognition system will "ultimately be replaced by a facial recognition system" for enhanced security. "However, if the technical challenges cannot be overcome, we believe a combination of fingerprint and facial recognition is another possible solution."

Judging by the bio-recognition patents that Apple has applied for, we believe it is leaning toward facial recognition technology rather than iris recognition. However, we note that the technical challenges of facial recognition include: (1) algorithms; (2) hardware design; and (3) the build-out of a database for verification and authentication, which could be time consuming. As such, before Apple can fully replace the fingerprint system with facial recognition, a combination of the two steps of bio-recognition could be a valid solution for enhancing transactions security.

​

a couple of other around this same time (iirc, there are more similar reports earlier than these as well)
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/01/18/iphone-8-facial-gesture-recognition/
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/02/16/iphone-3d-laser-scanner-facial-recognition/


--------
here's the thing... shortly after those reports (or possibly before?), Apple placed the order to Samsung for the X's OLED panels.. (like 80million or so)..
at that point, it was a done deal.. touchID under the display would need a different display than the ones which are going into iPhone X.. and Apple just ordered a crapton of displays which can't be used with touchID

all of the rumors/reports after this order was placed-- the ones about 'Apple is still struggling with touchID' etc.. well, we know now that they didn't matter.. Apple wasn't still trying to get touchID under the screen for the X.. the design was already finalized prior.. the non-touchID X was already being built.

idk, i wouldn't be surprised if this decision were made a year ago.. and i would also bet money that Apple knows how to put touchID under the display.. it really does seems as if once Apple tuned faceID to be secure enough for financial transactions (ApplePay/banking/etc), touchID was no longer on the plate as far as their next gen phone is concerned.

 

[nexesnex]

I’ve backed Purism’s Librem 5 and will hopefully be moving away from he iPhone/Android world very soon (it is 90% funded, Duck Duck Go it if you are interested in a proper Linux phone with a focus on security and privacy!)

Can’t say I care about such features. Google and Apple are competing purely on gimmicks rather than real features. It’s soooo lame!!
[doublepost=1507428401][/doublepost]

So are RAM slots and removable HDs. Or are they?

I feel isolated as a 30+ year Apple fanatic. In a past life EVERYTHING needed to be Apple. Now I’m bored and frustrated by their direction. Still love their OS, but is that enough? I don’t HATE the alternatives like I used to.

Phone looks interesting, but not expected to ship for 1.4 years... plus, you will still need a cell phone provider, who will track you. I hope the phone works well for you but I think I'll pass on this option...

 

[Marshall73]

I don't believe Kuo and I don't believe Gruber.

I find it more than interesting that Kuo is now always defending Apple and giving them the benefit of the doubt.

In the real world, we simply call it Marketing Spin.

Steve Jobs (indirectly) gave it a different name, Distorted Reality !

The ONLY REASON Apple did NOT include Touch ID under Glass is because they could NOT get it working by the Intro date of the iPhone X !

It was a difficult Engineering Challenge, and they are still working on it !

Face ID will quickly become a Novelty the very day the first mobile device manufacturer can Demo viable & credible Touch ID under Glass ... that may be Apple, or it may be someone else.

I don't think Kuo has any credibility anymore !

Next year's 8s & 8s+ will very-likely include a Rear-facing TrueDepth camera, AND next year's Xs will very-likely ALSO include Touch ID under Glass.

NOT Rocket Science, anybody with half a brain should be able to figure this out.

If they are happy with the operation of FaceID kiss Touch ID goodbye. It will save money in manufacturing cost to not include Touch ID in displays. They will be able to mass produce the faceid modules for inclusion in all product lines including macOS devices, providing a solution of how to get touchid tech into the iMac.

 

[FelixDerKater]

Having both couldn't hurt in case one is a flop.

 

[VenusianSky]

I just started using TouchID when I got my iPhone 7 back in June. I had a 5S but was using a passcode. If my next iPhone only has FaceID, I will probably go back to a pin.

 

[citysnaps]

Having both couldn't hurt in case one is a flop.

Apple has never done that. Imagine the first iPhone having an extra keyboard, that was mechanical. Just in case...

Also, including TouchID as a backup option would just add extra cost and take up valuable space. Something Apple would never do.

 

[n3sh]

Like the touchbar on MacBook.

This is the next "3D TV", and hopefully ends soon.

TouchID forever!

 

[Ghost31]

Apple has never done that. Imagine the first iPhone having an extra keyboard, that was mechanical. Just in case...

Also, including TouchID as a backup option would just add extra cost and take up valuable space. Something Apple would never do.

And send the message that they aren’t sure about face ID. Like an earlier report said, Apple decided to go ALL in to make face id as good as it can be.
[doublepost=1507433597][/doublepost]

Like the touchbar on MacBook.

The Touch bar is such a mistake in its marketing. It should never have been a big headlining feature that apple was able to charge more for. It should have just been a “hey that’s kinda cool” thing they added to their laptops at the same prices

 

[jonnysods]

Apple need to find a new screen supplier.

How can Samsung keep secret what types of screens they are making for Apple from Samsung's phone department?

Wouldn't they leak it internally so they are one step ahead?

 

[Wanted797]

And it will take them years to get to something comparable.

I often feel sorry for Android users.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Nokia 950 had this.

Motorola was the first with the Atrix

 

[pandoraf]

surely it will not be popular in Moslem country where people use veil

 

[BennkCreed]

Im going to disagree that having options is less secure. No one is saying you have to use all of these options at the same time. Secondly if you do authenticate with them, doesn't that mean you are n^n number of times more likely to be safe if you use two factor, three factor etc...? Some people have a preference for certain options depending upon their use case. Why not let the user decide what's best for them? However, I will say that some of the instances where faceID fails touchID does too. So lets say if you are in the cold. Do you cover your hands or your face and hair etc... Apple probably thought about this and realized that going all in of faceID was the best solution in the long run. Faces are harder to fake if done properly etc...

I don't see anything wrong with giving people the option. That in an of itself is another layer of security. Figuring out which method or methods and what level of auth (two or three factor etc) someone uses to authenticate their phone then unlocking it.

The way I see it, the more option you have to unlock your phone the more option someone else has to try and and unlock your phone. More option to unlock a phone does not equal to being safer. It might be convenient for the user to have options but it also makes the user less safe against someone trying to get into their phone.

 

[Lancer]

I Want My Touch ID and I will keep my touch ID.

One reason I ordered a new 8... that and cost of the X.

I'll wait until this is sorted and better, not that I don't trust it. Got an iPhone 5s which was the first with Touch ID, an unknown at the time 4 years ago!

 

[flat five]

The way I see it, the more option you have to unlock your phone the more option someone else has to try and and unlock your phone. More option to unlock a phone does not equal to being safer. It might be convenient for the user to have options but it also makes the user less safe against someone trying to get into their phone.

not if you require multi-factor identification.. then the security becomes stronger.

for example, if your phone was set up to require both TouchID and a passcode to unlock, it would be stronger security than either touchID alone or passcode alone..

same with faceID and touchID being used together.. you could require both of them to authenticate prior to unlocking or moving dollars..

someone trying to gain access through these means would need to fool both the fingerprint reader and the face scanner instead of just one of them.

----------
[edit]
well.. i just read what you originally quoted and i see @AdonisSMU has already covered the point that i'm trying to make..
so yeah, what he said

 

[Lancer]

surely it will not be popular in Moslem country where people use veil

Apple must be racist then!