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Samsung's iris scanner (something that has remained exclusive to Samsung and keeps improving) and under the screen fingerprint reader can be a perfect match.
Why would you need both? Maybe add a DNA reader while your at it?!
 
Have obviously not tried it yet butI would have liked both options. Face ID sure is the future for Apple and the sensors will probably turn up on the backside also in a few iterations but still would have been neat with an under display sensor for TouchID.
 
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Yet when I ask you to provide some specific Apps for me to try on my Android devices, you come up with a lame excuse why you don’t need to. Are you afraid I’m going to load them up and try them out and discover they’re not as good as you claim?

I get it - you’re a simple user who’s happy with the basic Apps everyone uses. But that doesn’t mean everyone else is the same. Like having powerful Apps that take advantage of Apples vastly superior processors (unlike Android where those octa-core processors are nothing but marketing BS).

You still have not told me what "work" you do on your iPhone?
 
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Obviously later Android devices/processors (where the secure element resides) are more secure. However, Apple was far ahead in this as well starting with the A7.

Then we have the keys being exposed in TrustZone on Qualcomm processors. Of course they patched it, but like the vast majority of Android related exploits, most users won’t see the fix.

Herein lies the difference between security handled by multiple parties (Google for Android, Qualcomm for the processors with their secure element and OEMs who add their own touches) vs Apple who is in complete control of the silicon and software.

Is the underlying issue here that flaws or mistakes happen ? Apple does do it much better than the competition, as they should with their resources. It's one thing to single out idevices, on MacOS side security has been an interesting ride to be honest.
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If you only do simple tasks that’s true. If you do actual work, it’s not. iOS is vastly superior to Android when you start looking for high-end Apps.

Can you even name me 3 Android Apps that utilize those octa-core processors?

My iPhone 7 Plus destroys my S7, S8 and Pixel. The iPhone 8 and X will widen the gap even further.

Is that relevant to a phone ? I only say as I've just updated from a 6S to a 7 due to storage and day to day it's the same.

You point is valid for my iPad 10.5 and new ATV 4K , the extra grunt shines through when running CPU / GPU apps .

I can't think of 3 iPhone apps that have made me go .....owww this 7 upgrade is kicking it! :) Androids issues with lag etc....it's optimisation and not lack of hardware .

Remember owning android , iPhone and windows phones , the windows phone actually put the other two to shame what to achieved with the hardware. Hence why OS X was always very good and did not need grunt unlike windows...where a virus scanner would make your computer as enjoyable as using....well iPhone 4 with iOS 9 :p right software for the right hardware .
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Why would you need both? Maybe add a DNA reader while your at it?!

We have touchid and password right now on iPhones......and to answer you question, even apple admits that faceID will have exceptions so you need fall back.

DNA reader would be far superior to faceID though, and probably a better user experience... good thinking :)
 
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Face ID is going to flop!

Except it won’t. The same thing happens every time apple changes things up ... naysayers will say the old way was better, that the new way will flop, and that it’s all a huge mistake. The same thing was said about Touch ID when it was first introduced. Not secure enough they said. Doesn’t always work, they said. It’s slow they said... but now they cant live without it.

The same thing was said about getting rid of the optical drives... about built in batteries... about the Apple Watch... about air pods... even when the iPhone first came out.. negative nancys were all over the net saying it would flop (lol). Now every phone is either an iPhone, or something like it.

You’d think by now people would learn to trust Apple. I think they know what they’re doing, especially when it comes to hardware.

Maybe people should wait to try it out before they predict doom and gloom.
 
Can you say with certainty that Apple didn’t put more money and R&D into it once purchased? Basically using it as a foundation to develop further on and then release a better version of what they initially bought?

The Gen 2 version of TouchID released in the 6s definitely was a result in that.

Apple obviously threw more money into the project. That wasn't my point, but I think you already knew that.
 
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That's the sort of gimmick (along with the touch bar on the MBP and the whole of the Apple Watch) that is what's turning the pro and the power users away from Apple products.
 
That's the sort of gimmick (along with the touch bar on the MBP and the whole of the Apple Watch) that is what's turning the pro and the power users away from Apple products.

Ones man's gimmick is another's essential feature. I think someone said something similar when Mercedes introduced seat belts. Air-con was introduced and then dumped for almost 10 years before the "gimmick" took off....
 
Yet when I ask you to provide some specific Apps for me to try on my Android devices, you come up with a lame excuse why you don’t need to. Are you afraid I’m going to load them up and try them out and discover they’re not as good as you claim?
I just don’t have any idea what you want. What specific apps I use, like Chrome, Inbox, Maps? Why would I be afraid of you trying them out? Every single app I have works perfectly on my phone. I can’t think of any app I ever tried that didn’t, actually, and I had several Android phones since the Nexus One.

I get it - you’re a simple user who’s happy with the basic Apps everyone uses. But that doesn’t mean everyone else is the same. Like having powerful Apps that take advantage of Apples vastly superior processors (unlike Android where those octa-core processors are nothing but marketing BS).
Clearly, you don’t get it. I am anything but a “simple user” - I work in IT security, I am well versed with computer systems you’ve never heard of. I have lots of apps and use my smartphone a lot. I just have no idea what you mean by “powerful apps”. On the phone? Like what, 3D rendering, C++ project management, architectural drawing, large databases, compilers? Why would I want to do that on my phone?

You know, I have various Apple products including 3 functioning tablets - the original iPad (I have the nicest 32Gb 3G version), the retina mini and the new 10.5” Pro. I well know iOS and its many limitations and inadequacies. The first two of these products were pretty poor, hardware-wise, and this made them generally poor. The last one is actually pretty good hardware-wise but its not really a good product and it costs way more than it should. It amuses me that this very website doesn’t work properly with the iPad - hitting one of the arrow keys on my keyboard scrolls to the bottom of the page, for example.

With the latest iPad I even gave up on putting music on it. It was such a hassle and I just couldn’t find the energy to do it anymore, now I only use my Android phone for this.

If I had any inkling that the iPhone was anything but a mediocre product, I’d buy one immediately. But I don’t, I’m certain it’s a mediocre, overpriced fashion tech item whose main function is to socially signal how upwardly mobile one is.

To return to the topic, this face scanning technology is clearly a Hail Mary attempt. Apple is throwing stuff out there in hope something sticks. It just doesn’t have much applicability right now, face unlocking is clearly a more involved and awkward way of unlocking your phone compared to a good fingerprint reader, and otherwise there’s only so much desirability that poop face emojis can bring out in the general public.

There’s some chance a killer app will appear, but I doubt it. It feels very much like the Macbook OLED strip - an ineffective gimmick that turned out for me to be more harmful than I originally envisaged (I also have the new 15” Macbook Pro).
 
Apple must be racist then!
Apple has one site where they show quite clearly the requirements. Muslim men with beards have no problems. Muslim woman who want to hide their face from any men will have to go to a place where they can show at least nose and eyes. Similar if you are skiing, mountaineering, exploring Antarctica, if you are a doctor having everything covered during an operation, motorbike riders with full helmet, bank robbers hiding their faces. Race seems to make no difference to this particular technology, because skin colour has no effect on it.
[doublepost=1507457832][/doublepost]And take into account that the face id camera isn't limited to taking 3D pictures of your face. It can take 3D pictures of anything. There will be lots of interesting applications for that. Touch ID does just one thing.
 
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I think that might be one of the most disturbing sentences I have ever read. All hail the corporation!

Then you don’t understand business in general, and you don’t understand Apple. At 11.59.


The way Apple has always worked is - we give you just one way of getting things done, but it’s a darn optimised one. You may not like it, but it’s something you are going to have to accept, maybe even embrace if you are to benefit from the Apple ecosystem.

If you prefer to wade brought a myriad of options, both good and bad, well, you have a ton of android phones to choose from in that regard.
 
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Everyone keeps saying it was apple that was so far ahead on this technology, but IIRC they purchased it. Yes. they may have put it into mass production, but it wasn't theirs until they bought it. I remember it was a unique solution because it used radio wave to scan for the fingerprint.

Edit: Apple purchases AuthenTec

I remember that clearly. Still, they are the ones who brought it to market, and I'm sure a lot of work went into it's further development after purchasing Authentic.

Even Face ID, big part of it is a result of the company they bought (can't recall if it was 2013-2014?) that made the original Kinect for Xbox. I remember everyone speculating at the time what they were up to. While it's not as simple as this - they essentially miniaturized a lot of what was in a Kinect into the sensor area of iPhone X.

Their hardware / chipset team is really working on a different level right now. It's probably the most impressive part of Apple as a company at the moment.
 
The way I see it, the more option you have to unlock your phone the more option someone else has to try and and unlock your phone. More option to unlock a phone does not equal to being safer. It might be convenient for the user to have options but it also makes the user less safe against someone trying to get into their phone.
the person would still have to know about which method or methods you chose to unlock your phone to unlock your phone. if they don't know the method and they try to unlock one of their 5 tries for unlocking the phone is used up. it would likely use up a few tries and force someone into trying something else.
 
Doesn’t cost you anything. Apple has a great return policy if you don’t like it.

And? He has a 14 day 100% money back return policy. A two week test drive in real word scenarios should be all the time one needs.

Or are we going to keep complaining about things we have never tried yet?

Either way still gonna cost him a $1000. He gonna get it back if he returns but still initially still gonna cost him $1000. Maybe some people have that convenience having extra money laying around like you.
And yes we are still going to complain things we never tried it’s a human nature. Because based on our experience it’s not always going to work hence the word beta. The fact is almost all Apple products are like that. They just putting improvements as the time goes by called updates. They’re already loaded with problems loaded with issues every time they announce something new either hardware or software. So yeah, he should let it mature make other people like you beta test. Then when everybody says it works perfect then he can decide. Like he said he prefer TouchID and Apple gave him the choice.
 
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Apple must be racist then!
To be clear, islam is a religion, not a nationality, though it is not uncommon that people from certain parts of the world subscribe to the islam religion almost exclusively, but they are not interchangeable.

Not to be a pedant, but my country recently had an Indian muslim nominated as our president (a largely ceremonial role) in an election supposedly reserved for the Malay community, so I am quite particular about that distinction.

I just don’t have any idea what you want. What specific apps I use, like Chrome, Inbox, Maps? Why would I be afraid of you trying them out? Every single app I have works perfectly on my phone. I can’t think of any app I ever tried that didn’t, actually, and I had several Android phones since the Nexus One.
I think the best Android apps don't really hold a candle to the best iOS apps. Take email for instance. iOS has apps like Spark and Airmail, while the best Android email app is usually Google's own gmail app (which says a lot about the state of the competition). There's Tweetbot for iOS, Fantastical, Bear, 1password, Things, Timepage, just to name a few.

iOS users tend to be a lot more spoilt for choice when it comes to this sort of things.

Apple is throwing stuff out there in hope something sticks. It just doesn’t have much applicability right now, face unlocking is clearly a more involved and awkward way of unlocking your phone compared to a good fingerprint reader, and otherwise there’s only so much desirability that poop face emojis can bring out in the general public.
Throwing stuff out there would be putting a fingerprint sensor at the back while including Face ID in case one didn't work. That Apple removed Touch ID and is apparently going all-in with Face ID suggests that they have spent a lot of time thinking this through, because it's often easier to just cram more features in than it is to remove anything, especially a feature as established as Touch ID.

Knowing Apple, Face ID will likely be the springboard to way more functionality in the future. Maybe improved AR features, or perhaps even a means of checking your face for any symptoms of ill health?
 
Like Steve Jobs once said, if you're Henry Ford and you ask people what they want they will say a better buggy whip, not one of his new fangled contraptions. You have to show people what they want and Face ID will do that.
That is not at all what he said.

If your going to make up stuff at least get it right...

“Some people say, "Give the customers what they want." But that's not my approach. Out job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do. I think Henry Ford once said, "If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have told me, 'A faster horse!'" People don't know what they want until you show it to them.”
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That is completely false. Apple never stated that identical twins can trick FaceID.
The probability of a false match is different for twins and siblings that look like you as well as among children under the age of 13, because their Face ID Security September 2017 2 distinct facial features may not have fully developed. If you're concerned about this, we recommend using a passcode to authenticate.

https://images.apple.com/business/docs/FaceID_Security_Guide.pdf
 
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Is this just an odd way of stating that you prefer AI innovation over biometrics innovation?

P.S. It’s not the buds that do the translating any more than it’s the AirPods that to the audio decoding.

Technically speaking the AirPods do the decoding ...... via the DAC :p
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To be clear, islam is a religion, not a nationality, though it is not uncommon that people from certain parts of the world subscribe to the islam religion almost exclusively, but they are not interchangeable.

I think that due to how Islam is incorporated in national law in so many states, people
Forget the distinction with nationalities . You are right, they are not interchangeable
 
And btw, Face ID is more secure than Touch ID as Touch ID only reads a very small portion of your fingerprint and the cha
I think the best Android apps don't really hold a candle to the best iOS apps. Take email for instance. iOS has apps like Spark and Airmail, while the best Android email app is usually Google's own gmail app (which says a lot about the state of the competition). There's Tweetbot for iOS, Fantastical, Bear, 1password, Things, Timepage, just to name a few.

iOS users tend to be a lot more spoilt for choice when it comes to this sort of things.
But you keep telling us choice and options is not a good thing?????????????
 
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Guess you forgot about security researchers being able to get fingerprint data off a Galaxy S5 and intercept it BEFORE it got to the secure element. Or how they could add their own fingerprints to a device. Not much of a “secure channel” if data can be intercepted along the way.
So...they copied Apple then?

"In a video posted Tuesday on YouTube, experts from Security Research Labs demonstrated an apparent breach of the S5 using similar tactics employed late last year to bypass the fingerprint lock on Apple's (AAPL) iPhone 5s.

The group says it used a camera-phone photo of a fingerprint on a smartphone screen to create a "fake finger" sheet out of a wood-glue mold. That allowed them to access the S5's home screen and even send money via the PayPal app, which uses fingerprint authentication."

The hypocrisy of you and others is simply astounding.
 
My five year old android tablet has facial recognition for unlocking
My first girlfriend 20 years ago had a vagina so she’s exactly like my current girlfriend.

/s
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I think that might be one of the most disturbing sentences I have ever read. All hail the corporation!
Appreciating a company that has good taste and doesn’t just throw whatever at the wall and see if it sticks should not be disturbing. But ok. Be edgy and anti corporation man.
 
I just don’t have any idea what you want. What specific apps I use, like Chrome, Inbox, Maps? Why would I be afraid of you trying them out? Every single app I have works perfectly on my phone. I can’t think of any app I ever tried that didn’t, actually, and I had several Android phones since the Nexus One.


Clearly, you don’t get it. I am anything but a “simple user” - I work in IT security, I am well versed with computer systems you’ve never heard of. I have lots of apps and use my smartphone a lot. I just have no idea what you mean by “powerful apps”. On the phone? Like what, 3D rendering, C++ project management, architectural drawing, large databases, compilers? Why would I want to do that on my phone?

You know, I have various Apple products including 3 functioning tablets - the original iPad (I have the nicest 32Gb 3G version), the retina mini and the new 10.5” Pro. I well know iOS and its many limitations and inadequacies. The first two of these products were pretty poor, hardware-wise, and this made them generally poor. The last one is actually pretty good hardware-wise but its not really a good product and it costs way more than it should. It amuses me that this very website doesn’t work properly with the iPad - hitting one of the arrow keys on my keyboard scrolls to the bottom of the page, for example.

With the latest iPad I even gave up on putting music on it. It was such a hassle and I just couldn’t find the energy to do it anymore, now I only use my Android phone for this.

If I had any inkling that the iPhone was anything but a mediocre product, I’d buy one immediately. But I don’t, I’m certain it’s a mediocre, overpriced fashion tech item whose main function is to socially signal how upwardly mobile one is.

To return to the topic, this face scanning technology is clearly a Hail Mary attempt. Apple is throwing stuff out there in hope something sticks. It just doesn’t have much applicability right now, face unlocking is clearly a more involved and awkward way of unlocking your phone compared to a good fingerprint reader, and otherwise there’s only so much desirability that poop face emojis can bring out in the general public.

There’s some chance a killer app will appear, but I doubt it. It feels very much like the Macbook OLED strip - an ineffective gimmick that turned out for me to be more harmful than I originally envisaged (I also have the new 15” Macbook Pro).

I have found that the only people that can use a smartphone/tablet for "real work" are writers/bloggers/fanboys. Everyone else uses them in the same way. Smartphones are consumption mostly, light email, texting, surfing, photos, social media and some light gaming. Tablets are pure consumption devices for 99.9% of their owners.

Any real work is still done on a computer of some sort, mostly Windows then macOS then some form of Linux which possibly means ChromeOS.

On this topic FaceID will either be a huge success and change the way all smartphones work or it will be like Siri, slow, and work like 80% of the time or less and will quickly be ignored by all users save the cult members.

Android phone makers with finger print readers on the back got it right.
 
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