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That's precisely what we pay Apple to do - make the best decisions for its users so we don't have to. If you don't like the way Apple does things, that's what Android phones are for.

Hmm no. The primary obligation of a consumer is to consume responsibly and to choose the best products for their needs at the best prices they can obtain. Apple has subverted this – or rather Apple’s fanbase has subverted this, just as you do now.

I was OK ponying up the extra cash as long as the money was going into R&D for surprising future products. Now it's not. iOS is a buggy mess, Maps still sucks, the Mac line is hopelessly out of touch with users' needs, the industrial design of the iPhone and iPad is stuck in 2012, the Cinema Display business died on the vine without a word from Cupertino, I'm forced to buy dongles to continue doing business as usual, and M$ and Samsung are now on par with Apple in satisfaction and reliability. All my money is actually doing at this point is padding Apple's $220b war chest so Cook can poach Chinese ride share companies and tweet virtue signalling platitudes about social issues while Ive is putting together $300 coffee table books to stroke his ego.

No thanks.
 
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I think the best Android apps don't really hold a candle to the best iOS apps. Take email for instance. iOS has apps like Spark and Airmail, while the best Android email app is usually Google's own gmail app (which says a lot about the state of the competition).
I don't think either Spark or Airmail hold a candle to Inbox, which is not only the best Android but probably the best iOS mail app. If I were to use email on iOS that's what I'd use.

I'd also use Google Maps, Google Photos, Google Translate, these are just best-in-class apps.

This and the fact that Chrome is easily the best web browser on Android (and there's a lot of solid competition) speaks volumes about Google. It's a really good software company. And Apple's own offerings are remarkably mediocre.

I am not familiar with the other things you enumerate. They sound like a waste of time to me, to be honest. They probably exist on Android as well.

Bottom line is, if I were to have an iPhone, I'd use the exact same software I'm using now. Except on a much less customisable, much less functional, stilted and awkward to use OS, and with the loss of Google Assistant, which is about to get a lot better with Google Lens.

On a tablet, it's a different thing - I stick on Netflix or a book and that's it. But my phone needs to be flexible and nimble, I need to be able to quickly do things on it, especially while on the go. And iOS ain't for that. iOS is for making Apple money, and their users fashion statements.

Throwing stuff out there would be putting a fingerprint sensor at the back while including Face ID in case one didn't work. That Apple removed Touch ID and is apparently going all-in with Face ID suggests that they have spent a lot of time thinking this through, because it's often easier to just cram more features in than it is to remove anything, especially a feature as established as Touch ID.

Knowing Apple, Face ID will likely be the springboard to way more functionality in the future. Maybe improved AR features, or perhaps even a means of checking your face for any symptoms of ill health?
There's a lot of wishful thinking in your post.

I think the simplest explanation is the most likely one here.

I'm sure that Apple tries things in parallel. I'm convinced they wanted to be the first company to present an in-glass fingerprint reader. All the rumours pointed to this. These much respected market analysts who now praise FaceID only talked about the in-glass sensor before. That is not only in line with the kind of thing that awes Apple's typical customer, but with the advantage of keeping Touch ID per se, only in a hyper-modern variant.

They just couldn't do it.

Thankfully they were also looking into this less promising and less exciting face mapping technology, and they went with that instead. They can even go and give interviews and pretend this was the thing they wanted to present to begin with. They added some half-baked crap like animated emojis and face filters and pretended this is some revolution.

I don't buy it. I don't buy the AR thing either, it's been generally useless rubbish. It boggles the mind that the most promising stuff I've seen is the IKEA furniture preview app. And if you're the sort of customer who buys IKEA furniture, only a fool would pay the kind of price Apple wants for their latest iPhones.
 
Hmm no. The primary obligation of a consumer is to consume responsibly and to choose the best products for their needs at the best prices they can obtain. Apple has subverted this – or rather Apple’s fanbase has subverted this, just as you do now.

I was OK ponying up the extra cash when the money was going into R&D for surprising future products. Now it's not. iOS is a buggy mess, Maps still sucks, the Mac line is hopelessly out of touch with users' needs, the industrial design of the iPhone and iPad is stuck in 2012, the Cinema Display business died on the vine without a word from Cupertino, I'm forced to buy dongles to continue doing business as usual, and M$ and Samsung are now on par with Apple in satisfaction and reliability. All my money is actually doing at this point is padding Apple's $220b war chest so Cook can poach Chinese ride share companies and tweet virtue signalling platitudes about social issues.

No thanks.

And for me, I got the iPad Pro, Apple Pencil, AirPods and Apple Watch last year. And upgraded to the 5k iMac and iPhone 8+ this year.

Apple’s products are currently (still) working great for me. I use maps exclusively and it gets me to where I need to go. Loving Apple Pay on my watch. Pencil has the best writing experience on my iPad which I am mirroring to my classroom projector via an Apple TV. The only dongle I use is a lightning to vga adapter as the projector in one of my classrooms doesn’t work with the Apple TV. Haven’t touched any of my other headphones ever since I got my AirPods. And I have recently gone back to using more of the stock apps for the Siri integration.

I am a satisfied Apple device user and see myself staying one for a good many years to come.
 
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And for me, I got the iPad Pro, Apple Pencil, AirPods and Apple Watch last year. And upgraded to the 5k iMac and iPhone 8+ this year.

Apple’s products are currently (still) working great for me. I use maps exclusively and it gets me to where I need to go. Loving Apple Pay on my watch. Pencil has the best writing experience on my iPad which I am mirroring to my classroom projector via an Apple TV. The only dongle I use is a lightning to vga adapter as the projector in one of my classrooms doesn’t work with the Apple TV. Haven’t touched any of my other headphones ever since I got my AirPods. And I have recently gone back to using more of the stock apps for the Siri integration.

I am a satisfied Apple device user and see myself staying one for a good many years to come.

Way to evade the point by prattling about your own consumption pattern.

Besides, if you can throw all this $$ for the most basic of functions, iStuff had better at least WORK as advertised.
 
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Way to evade the point by prattling about your own consumption pattern.

My point is that you not enjoying the current selection of Apple products and services doesn’t mean that other people necessarily share your sentiment or experiences. I am telling you that Apple's current product lineup is meeting my needs very well and working great for me, and I am pretty sure that there are many others like me.

This doesn’t mean that Apple has lost its way. Times change. A company changes in keeping with the times. It’s not unfashionable that Apple may no longer meet your needs the way you want it to, and that’s just the way the way she goes.
 
Not at all, if they go out and buy one on their own. However, if Apple included a trackball mouse and a laser mouse with every Mac, just for the sake of consumer choice, it means every Mac purchaser is buying something they don't want or need - an extra mouse. Environmentalists would rightfully complain of unnecessary waste, consumerists would rightfully complain of unnecessary expense.

Fingerprint sensors are a single-purpose component, whereas the sensor array for Face ID can be used for many purposes. That alone argues in favor of Face ID - ultimately, the user gets far more value from one than the other.

Are you complaining about the cost of the ToucID sensor? The cost of the R&D for it behind the screen? Somehow these, you believe, affect the cost of the iPhone? If so, have you noticed the most expensive iPhone doesn’t include TouchID?

Anybody could argue any component they don’t use as a waste of space and not worthy the extra cost it adds to the device.

I really don’t care what your opinions are. People will make up anything to be “right” on this topic. Apple has made their statement. We’ll see if they stay on track for the long run. If they don’t add back fingerprints, I won’t feel bad for ever wanting something different.
 
My point is that you not enjoying the current selection of Apple products and services doesn’t mean that other people necessarily share your sentiment or experiences. I am telling you that Apple's current product lineup is meeting my needs very well and working great for me, and I am pretty sure that there are many others like me.

This doesn’t mean that Apple has lost its way. Times change. A company changes in keeping with the times. It’s not unfashionable that Apple may no longer meet your needs the way you want it to, and that’s just the way the way she goes.

Wow. Moralising, vague and completely indifferent to the ratio of expenditure VS functionality. You, and the many others like you are Cook's dream customer base.
 
I just don’t have any idea what you want. What specific apps I use, like Chrome, Inbox, Maps? Why would I be afraid of you trying them out? Every single app I have works perfectly on my phone. I can’t think of any app I ever tried that didn’t, actually, and I had several Android phones since the Nexus One.


Clearly, you don’t get it. I am anything but a “simple user” - I work in IT security, I am well versed with computer systems you’ve never heard of. I have lots of apps and use my smartphone a lot. I just have no idea what you mean by “powerful apps”. On the phone? Like what, 3D rendering, C++ project management, architectural drawing, large databases, compilers? Why would I want to do that on my phone?

You know, I have various Apple products including 3 functioning tablets - the original iPad (I have the nicest 32Gb 3G version), the retina mini and the new 10.5” Pro. I well know iOS and its many limitations and inadequacies. The first two of these products were pretty poor, hardware-wise, and this made them generally poor. The last one is actually pretty good hardware-wise but its not really a good product and it costs way more than it should. It amuses me that this very website doesn’t work properly with the iPad - hitting one of the arrow keys on my keyboard scrolls to the bottom of the page, for example.

With the latest iPad I even gave up on putting music on it. It was such a hassle and I just couldn’t find the energy to do it anymore, now I only use my Android phone for this.

If I had any inkling that the iPhone was anything but a mediocre product, I’d buy one immediately. But I don’t, I’m certain it’s a mediocre, overpriced fashion tech item whose main function is to socially signal how upwardly mobile one is.

To return to the topic, this face scanning technology is clearly a Hail Mary attempt. Apple is throwing stuff out there in hope something sticks. It just doesn’t have much applicability right now, face unlocking is clearly a more involved and awkward way of unlocking your phone compared to a good fingerprint reader, and otherwise there’s only so much desirability that poop face emojis can bring out in the general public.

There’s some chance a killer app will appear, but I doubt it. It feels very much like the Macbook OLED strip - an ineffective gimmick that turned out for me to be more harmful than I originally envisaged (I also have the new 15” Macbook Pro).

Before we move on I have one simple question for you, just for clarification:

- In a processor is it better to have a single very fast core (Apple A-Series) or two slower cores (Samsung Exynos and Qualcomm Snapdragon)?
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So...they copied Apple then?

"In a video posted Tuesday on YouTube, experts from Security Research Labs demonstrated an apparent breach of the S5 using similar tactics employed late last year to bypass the fingerprint lock on Apple's (AAPL) iPhone 5s.

The group says it used a camera-phone photo of a fingerprint on a smartphone screen to create a "fake finger" sheet out of a wood-glue mold. That allowed them to access the S5's home screen and even send money via the PayPal app, which uses fingerprint authentication."

The hypocrisy of you and others is simply astounding.

Wow, nothing like completely missing the point. This isn’t about fooling a sensor with a fake lifted print. This is about being able to access fingerprint data on a device (which is supposed to be kept secure).
 
There's a lot of wishful thinking in your post.

I think the simplest explanation is the most likely one here.

I'm sure that Apple tries things in parallel. I'm convinced they wanted to be the first company to present an in-glass fingerprint reader. All the rumours pointed to this. These much respected market analysts who now praise FaceID only talked about the in-glass sensor before. That is not only in line with the kind of thing that awes Apple's typical customer, but with the advantage of keeping Touch ID per se, only in a hyper-modern variant.

They just couldn't do it.

Thankfully they were also looking into this less promising and less exciting face mapping technology, and they went with that instead. They can even go and give interviews and pretend this was the thing they wanted to present to begin with. They added some half-baked crap like animated emojis and face filters and pretended this is some revolution.
Here’s the thing. The rumours remain just that - unsubstantiated rumours which we have no way of verifying.

I believe the iPhone X was likely never going to include Touch ID. While having a biometric authenticator backup to Face ID may seem to make sense, there is a significant downside found with such a move. If given the choice, I believe many users may choose to stick with Touch ID even if Face ID was the stronger option. Such a scenario would ultimately prove to be a disaster for Apple. Touch ID's value was in the ability to get people to move beyond using simple passcodes. In essence, Touch ID's ease of use led to greater user security for millions of users who didn’t lock their ios devices with a passcode for the sake of convenience. Face ID will look to build upon Touch ID's momentum. Including both Face ID and Touch ID on the same iPhone would just end up being a detriment to improving users' security.

Given what we now know about Face ID, it sure looks like Apple decided to go with facial recognition a while ago. In addition, Federighi's recent comments regarding Face ID should remove all doubt about Apple possibly returning to Touch ID in future iPhones, even as a backup authenticator. Face ID is the future. I would even go so far as to say that Face ID will eventually make its way to the iPad, Mac, and even Apple Watch lines.

The acid test will be whether next year’s iPhone will have both face ID and Touch ID or just face ID. If it’s the latter, this will show that Apple is serious about deprecating Touch ID in favour of face ID.

We will get to the point when using anything other than our face to unlock our consumer electronics will seem archaic. I think it’s safe to say that the days of Touch ID as we know it are numbered.

I don't buy it. I don't buy the AR thing either, it's been generally useless rubbish. It boggles the mind that the most promising stuff I've seen is the IKEA furniture preview app. And if you're the sort of customer who buys IKEA furniture, only a fool would pay the kind of price Apple wants for their latest iPhones.

And the earliest apps in the iOS App Store were fart apps.

Give it time. It’s still a little too early to judge the success of AR on mobile devices.
 
Wow. Moralising, vague and completely indifferent to the ratio of expenditure VS functionality. You, and the many others like you are Cook's dream customer base.

You are one weird fellow.

I tell you how my Apple devices are working great for me, and you are telling me straight to my face that I am wrong. Never mind that you don’t know who I am or what I use my devices for.

Wouldn’t I be the best judge of that?

The crux of the issue here is that at the end of the day, there isn’t any other company out there who can offer me the same integrated computing solution that Apple has. Yeah, so Apple products cost more upfront, but they have more than paid for themselves in the form of greater productivity and fewer problems overall.

More isn’t always better, especially when it doesn’t give me more of what I want.
 
Yeah just like the rest of the industry started dropping the headphone jack because Apple did it... oh wait. :rolleyes:
 
You are one weird fellow.

I tell you how my Apple devices are working great for me, and you are telling me straight to my face that I am wrong. Never mind that you don’t know who I am or what I use my devices for.

Wouldn’t I be the best judge of that?

The crux of the issue here is that at the end of the day, there isn’t any other company out there who can offer me the same integrated computing solution that Apple has. Yeah, so Apple products cost more upfront, but they have more than paid for themselves in the form of greater productivity and fewer problems overall.

More isn’t always better, especially when it doesn’t give me more of what I want.

And you are one simple fellow. We have different usage patterns, granted, that is all fine and dandy and perfectly OK. That you refuse to see the dissonance/bloat in their present SKU roster is also OK since it doesn't affect you personally.

I'm telling you to your face that you are wrong to project your own private scenario as an all-win for Apple's overall direction, products, and audience. "They work great for me", you say, and that is indeed great, but they DON'T for quite a lot of people.

Discounting this fact with disdain because you're one merry overspending peep is what is out of touch in our argument. And to give me a patronising speech about "the future" is unpleasantly irrelevant.
 
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I feel like Android should get the fingerprint thing down before they start venturing into this.

No offense but so many apps I use aren't fingerprint ready as they are on iOS and then the whole secure aspect of it.

Personally I'd rather have an under screen scanner as well as a face scanner. So I think Android makers should keep going. Then focus on face in two years since the word is Apple is two years ahead of Android in CPU and face scanning tech lol.
 
Why is it so hard for anyone to do any research?

Ironic you should say that since your link says nothing of the kind.

In fact the article you linked says Vivo showed a prototype of under display finger print sensing based on Qualcomm’s tech

Over at Vivo's booth, I got to play with a prototype

That it was slow and finicky
I found the fingerprint recognition speed to be noticeably slower -- about one second between first touch and entering home screen -- than the near-instantaneous unlock that I'm used to on most recent smartphones. I was also slightly disappointed by how small the recognition area was

The Vivo reps couldn't provide a timeline as to when we'll start seeing this tech on their devices, but according to Qualcomm, its solution will come in two waves. "Qualcomm Fingerprint Sensors for Glass and Metal" can be integrated into devices powered by Snapdragon 660 and 630

Following a link (https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/27/xiaomi-mi-5s-plus/) from the same article all Xiaomi actually released, In September 2016, was a fingerprint reader under glass, not under the screen. Pretty sure that’s been the case for TouchID the entire time it’s existed and even if not I don’t see why I would care whether it’s glass or not.

Here’s the Mi 5s

750876B3-383E-47B4-8C41-99B1552DC461.jpeg

Perhaps do your own research more thoroughly next time.
 
Ironic you should say that since your link says nothing of the kind.

In fact the article you linked says Vivo showed a prototype of under display finger print sensing based on Qualcomm’s tech



That it was slow and finicky




Following a link (https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/27/xiaomi-mi-5s-plus/) from the same article all Xiaomi actually released, In September 2016, was a fingerprint reader under glass, not under the screen. Pretty sure that’s been the case for TouchID the entire time it’s existed and even if not I don’t see why I would care whether it’s glass or not.

Here’s the Mi 5s

View attachment 724352

Perhaps do your own research more thoroughly next time.


It’s relevant. My link states advances where being done before Apple and that you’re argument based on rumors or speculation of Apple choosing to abundone such an endeavour without any inside knowledge is worse than someone coming iPhone with facts showing some work being done and a competitor going a lot closer.
TouchID is part of the sensor and ring as well not just under glass. In fact it’s saphire.

Now where is your research showing Apple abandoned fingerprint reader under the screen (LCD/OLED/AMOLED) which actually is still under the glass. Hmmm.
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Apple must be racist then!

Dear lord that is so wrong on so many levels but I get the humour. I’m very curious which veils would and would not work with FaceID to be honest. Would be very interesting to test. Ha Apple even thought of people using bourkas even?



I’m curious of everyone using TouchID how many have forgotten their phones passcode where they have to look it up written or saved elsewhere???
 
It’s relevant.

Not really, no. And it certainly falls well short of justifying

Xiaomi MI 5s was released in July 2017 using this tech!

Since the conversation is about fingerprint readers under the screen, not merely under glass which changes nothing about the experience.

Now where is your research showing Apple abandoned fingerprint reader under the screen (LCD/OLED/AMOLED) which actually is still under the glass. Hmmm.

Where is your research showing I ever asserted such a thing.

FACT: no-one has shipped under display scanners and that’s all I took issue with you suggesting
 
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That's the story NOW, and I don't believe it, actually, because it only became the story after they failed to get Touch ID under the screen implemented. It reeks of face-saving (no pun intended).

How do you know they weren't able to get under-screen Touch ID working? Are you an Apple engineer who was working on the project? Or are you just taking internet rumors as gospel?
 
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A problem with on-device biometrics is that the manufacturer can change it at whim and/or implement it however they like. There is no consistently in quality or security. Apple randomly introducing a new biometric paradigm while cool may cause issues with Enterprises "trusting" Apple biometrics fully for authentication.

Just a thought...
 
A problem with on-device biometrics is that the manufacturer can change it at whim and/or implement it however they like. There is no consistently in quality or security. Apple randomly introducing a new biometric paradigm while cool may cause issues with Enterprises "trusting" Apple biometrics fully for authentication.

Just a thought...

Interesting you bring up Enterprise, since that’s one market where iOS dominates over everyone else. They don’t appear to have issues with iOS devices or biometrics.
 
- In a processor is it better to have a single very fast core (Apple A-Series) or two slower cores (Samsung Exynos and Qualcomm Snapdragon)?

Yes :p

just like computers. The performance benefits of a highly paralelled or highly serialized processor is going to be thoroughly dependent on usage case and the software that runs on it.
 
Technically speaking the AirPods do the decoding ...... via the DAC :p
OK, bad analogy on my part but my original point still stands; the Pixel does the translating and sends the result to the buds.

As an aside, I confirmed what you said here, and found this interesting statement:
Headphones with a 3.5 mm jack don't convert the music, but rely on a DAC in your phone to do it. That DAC is what converts all those MP3 files into music you can actually hear.

Headphones that use a Lightning cable or Bluetooth, however, have a DAC inside the headphones. These include Apple's AirPods and EarPods.​

This brings up the interesting point that it’s a little more complicated. “Legacy” headphones with a 3.5mm jack do work via a lightning adapter, which means that even iPhones with no 3.5mm jack must still be doing onboard D/A decoding.
 
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