Apple's Face ID Turns Android Makers Away From Under-Screen Fingerprint Recognition

No. There were rumors and report based on anonymous sources than Apple had trouble with touch ID under the display, then there are statements by an Apple executive than they stop developing it because they found face ID to be better.


I don't think Apple just decided anything... It said they were 'struggling' That doesn't mean Apple derided on something better just because, there is a clear reason why they decided on FaceID because they couldn't do make the entire screen TouchID responsive

If they could, they would have done it already.... Perhaps it may have just been a coincidence. I guess we'll never know on that one, unless you ask Apple themselves....
 
Wow. That is scary.

Why allow anyone self-determination about their lives when they may choose an inferior option. The state should enforce the "right" choice on everyone. Why should people be allowed to choose their own careers paths are study areas, there's a right answer of what's in demand that suits their skills. Their wrong preference shouldn't matter, right? Unhealthy food should be outlawed. Non-pro sports should be outlawed (there's a non-zero chance you may get injured for a frivolous reason). Personal cars should be outlawed; a lot of drivers are dangerous, it causes traffic and environmental damage that is bad for everyone. Pretty much every choice has a "right" and "wrong" answer according to the liberal crazies, and you want to enforce it on someone.

Apple aren't deciding your right to self determination. You don't have to buy their products. If you don't want FaceID, buy the iPhone 8. If everybody has the same opinion and votes with their wallet, the iPhone X will be a flop and Apple will move in a different direction.

I suspect that this won't be the case though.
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They could have easily made TouchID more advanced, instead of that they downplayed it and made it sound less secure than it should be, face ID is going to be a nightmare, there is no way I am looking at my phone and waiting for it to decide it's me before paying for something in a shop, and on top of that, you will have to pretty much stare at the phone before it unlocks, not for me. Sticking with the iPhone 7/8 - and only just after the mess that is iOS11
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The way I see it is, they tried to put Touch ID under the display, failed, and thought let's do something easier. Not the best decision imo.


Maybe FaceID was planned all along and the "TouchID under the screen" was fake news perpetuated by Apple to throw others off the scent?
 
I don't think either Spark or Airmail hold a candle to Inbox, which is not only the best Android but probably the best iOS mail app. If I were to use email on iOS that's what I'd use.

I'd also use Google Maps, Google Photos, Google Translate, these are just best-in-class apps.

This and the fact that Chrome is easily the best web browser on Android (and there's a lot of solid competition) speaks volumes about Google. It's a really good software company. And Apple's own offerings are remarkably mediocre.

I am not familiar with the other things you enumerate. They sound like a waste of time to me, to be honest. They probably exist on Android as well.

Bottom line is, if I were to have an iPhone, I'd use the exact same software I'm using now. Except on a much less customisable, much less functional, stilted and awkward to use OS, and with the loss of Google Assistant, which is about to get a lot better with Google Lens.

On a tablet, it's a different thing - I stick on Netflix or a book and that's it. But my phone needs to be flexible and nimble, I need to be able to quickly do things on it, especially while on the go. And iOS ain't for that. iOS is for making Apple money, and their users fashion statements.


There's a lot of wishful thinking in your post.

I think the simplest explanation is the most likely one here.

I'm sure that Apple tries things in parallel. I'm convinced they wanted to be the first company to present an in-glass fingerprint reader. All the rumours pointed to this. These much respected market analysts who now praise FaceID only talked about the in-glass sensor before. That is not only in line with the kind of thing that awes Apple's typical customer, but with the advantage of keeping Touch ID per se, only in a hyper-modern variant.

They just couldn't do it.

Thankfully they were also looking into this less promising and less exciting face mapping technology, and they went with that instead. They can even go and give interviews and pretend this was the thing they wanted to present to begin with. They added some half-baked crap like animated emojis and face filters and pretended this is some revolution.

I don't buy it. I don't buy the AR thing either, it's been generally useless rubbish. It boggles the mind that the most promising stuff I've seen is the IKEA furniture preview app. And if you're the sort of customer who buys IKEA furniture, only a fool would pay the kind of price Apple wants for their latest iPhones.

————

wow,
So, to summarize your long post
GOOGLE = AMAZING
APPLE = USELESS
Apple supports AR, so now AR is completely useless?

FaceID mapping technology is less exciting than a touchID button?
Oh, sorry, you mean, Google didn’t make it and have no alternative to it, so it is not exciting and useless.
It not only that this thing will unlock a phone, in the future this tech is going to have an amazing impact
(of course, not for you)

Alright then, off you go back to your Treo
(because it would probably still be your phone now, if Apple didn’t release that “shi#tty useless” iPhone first
 
Knowing modern Apple, they have a long term goal for the touch bar. This is only the first iteration. I would guess it is full touch keyboard/interface with haptic that changes depending what you are doing.

I wager we haven’t seen the last of the Touchbar. Not by a long shot.
That's a perfect example of too much engineering overhead for too little benefit. If I were to be conservative, I'd give the Touch Bar the same lifespan as Touch ID or a Nexus 6: four years.
 
That's a perfect example of too much engineering overhead for too little benefit. If I were to be conservative, I'd give the Touch Bar the same lifespan as Touch ID or a Nexus 6: four years.

Four years for the N6? I think you're being generous :p

joking aside. I agree with the touchbar. It feels like Apple put it in the MBpro purely for differentiation sake and not actually as a benefit to most. it's not bad. it's just, unecessary, and done purely so that they had something to say "Think differently" about the MBPro over competing pro grade laptops.

I say this because so far, Apple has done absolutely nothing to further this touch bar paradigm across their entire product lineup. if Apple truly felt like the touchbar was an intengral part of their computer experience, the touchbar would be available accross their computer lineup. MacBook Air's would have the option, so would the Macbook. They'd also sell a stand alone keyboard with it so that their other computers could benefit from such a technology.

But given the absence of the touchbar on literally anything else Apple has, it feels completely like over-engineering something for the sake of saying they did.

heck, if you regularly dock your computer and use a larger keyboard and mouse, you don't have a touchbar, so even using the exact same MBPro, you may lose the feature. it "feels" identical to changing the iPhone 7's home button. it was an engineering thing done purely for the sake of it, and not for any real benefit.
 
I think FaceId was always their destination and TouchId just became their segue until the facial detection hardware and software technology was sufficiently developed.
 
As much as I hate not having Touch ID, I have to admit that Apple really is a trend setter. They are rarely the first to use a technology, but when they do use it, it has a big impact on the market. Just look at how many new phones are omitting the headphone jack, it’s insane why people would follow Apple on their design choices regardless it’s good or bad. At this point I wouldn’t even be surprised if some Chinese company decides to make a phone with an ugly ass notch just because Apple did it.
 
As much as I hate not having Touch ID, I have to admit that Apple really is a trend setter. They are rarely the first to use a technology, but when they do use it, it has a big impact on the market. Just look at how many new phones are omitting the headphone jack, it’s insane why people would follow Apple on their design choices regardless it’s good or bad. At this point I wouldn’t even be surprised if some Chinese company decides to make a phone with an ugly ass notch just because Apple did it.

Apple didn't design the notch.. they just stole it from a Camaro..
they can't even claim first!!11! on the notch : (

2013-chevrolet-camaros-frameless-rear-view-mirror-with-electrochromic-onstar-buttons_100399754_h.jpg



;)

.
 
<snip>I get that they could not make Touch ID work under the display and had to go for Face ID only that was just a far second option under the development cycle after the info I have gathered.
If by “the info I have gathered” you mean the rumors you choose to believe, then yeah, you got it.

What you don’t get is that FaceID was their first choice. The 600 billion/ops per second neural engine that powers the machine learning that powers FaceID has been in development for 3 years, since the A8. It wasn’t thrown together at the last moment. They finally got it working over a year ago, and abandoned TouchID under the display at that time.

Personally, I think Apple played Qualcomm/ Samsung and led them down a dead end path of Apple-feature-copy obsolescence. With the effectiveness of Apple’s internal secrecy, the fact that they’d cracked FaceID was unknown outside of Apple. Others spent tens of millions of dollars trying to chase what they thought Apple was doing.

Maybe I’m wrong, and Samsung and Google will stay with fingerprint sensors—which 15 or 20 experts here on MacRumors will all tell you is better than FaceID. But I bet they follow Apple with infrared 3D imaging for face recognition. Time will tell, and 80 million plus iPhone X users this cycle will know which tech is better. Apple already knows.
 
I Want My Touch ID and I will keep my touch ID.
You know, I had an iPhone 6 for a year (my first iPhone with Touch ID) and didn’t use the feature for the longest time because I had preconceived notions about it that I just couldn’t shake. I upgraded to a 6s Plus and finally decided to give the tech a try, which is when I ultimately realized I was completely wrong about Touch ID. I’m not making the same mistake with face ID. Maybe I’ll love it, maybe I’ll hate it, or perhaps it will just be meh. Whatever the outcome, I will remain open minded until I actually get time with it.
 
You can. That’s exactly why they added the swipe up.

You can touch to wake, or raise to wake, and look at the lock screen, or touch to wake, or raise to wake, and swipe up to complete the unlock.

I think you are missing his point. Craig said that to unlock a certain portion of your face would have to be viewable and looking at the sensor. A way to test this is to open your camera and put it on the front camera. Half the time I unlock my phone, none of my face is visible. I leave it on my desk next to me and just unlock it with Touch ID, and do whatever I need without picking it up. Never once during the whole interaction was my face even partially visible to the front camera. The removal of touchID completely kills this extremely convenient workflow. I'll take the bottom bezel and touchID over edge to edge screen in every scenario.
 
I mean, of course they are all excited by the proposition of selling detailed facial recognition records to every government on the planet. INB4 the multinational megacorp promised to respect my privacy.
 
I think smartphones are moving in a direction of multiple security systems. Meaning, you’ll have face scanning, an embedded fp sensor, possibly audible sensors that detect your voice, your cadence when you walk, being attached to your watch, etc.. (I know Samsung already has most of these) I think if they put touchid back someday it will not be so you can choose which security system you want to use, it will be to be used together to make the device even more secure.
 
If by “the info I have gathered” you mean the rumors you choose to believe, then yeah, you got it.

What you don’t get is that FaceID was their first choice. The 600 billion/ops per second neural engine that powers the machine learning that powers FaceID has been in development for 3 years, since the A8. It wasn’t thrown together at the last moment. They finally got it working over a year ago, and abandoned TouchID under the display at that time.

This.

What’s funny is to go back when the Galaxy S8 launched with their iris scanner (which isn’t very secure at all, but that’s another story).

Immediately TouchID was inferior. Everyone and their dog had tales of how it never worked properly with wet or dirty fingers. Suddenly everyone lived in a cold climate and wore gloves and fingerprint sensors were terrible compared to this new miraculous iris scanner.

Fast forward to today and FaceID. In order to keep the Apple bashing narrative everyone has flip-flopped. Now TouchID is suddenly the better method. People no longer wear gloves or have TouchID issues, but have suddenly started wearing scarves or face masks. Anything to make FaceID sound inferior.

The hypocrisy is strong....
 
Tough luck. And I do mean it.

But look at it this way. Apple could afford to remove the Ethernet jack because WiFi had become ubiquitous and reliable enough. The cd drive is now thicker than the MacBook itself. USB C is taking off in a big way over the past year. These features are needed (or will eventually be needed) only by a niche group of users and I think it’s ludicrous to expect Apple to leave them in just for this small user base, to the detriment of everyone else.

We can debate till the cows come home as to whether their removal was necessary or not, but we cannot deny that it took courage to be the first major player to remove these features, especially when you know you will get a lot of pushback and invite a ton of criticism and derision for it.

These changes have pushed the market in a specific direction, and we are, for most part, better for it.

We thank you for your sacrifice. It will not have been in vain.

The argument is that Apple certainly didn't HAVE to go this route. They did so because simplification saves THEM money. It has NOTHING to do with pushing the industry forward or making things better. There's no reason why Apple cannot sell machines for today AND the future.

Sadly, I need devices I can use TODAY.

I cannot use their current products, so the only choice I have is to wait for the industry to "catch up", in one of 2 ways:

1. Use their older machines or ...

2. Switch back to Windows

Both options kinda suck, hence the frustration.
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Oh yeah, because Apple should stop selling everything it had already produced before just because it made new models that lack certain ancient technology. Because that’s what you would do, right?

Apple doesn't want or need to do anything else. They're making money had-over-fist off of people like you who justify EVERY decision they make, however anti-user it is.

What I would've wanted was for them to NOT stop selling the stuff that some of us can use today, and sell their "futuristic" machines ALONGSIDE them to people like you.

Alas, it's not to be. Too bad.

Thanks to this I find myself more and more comfortable with the idea of switching, which a few years ago would've made me throw up in my mouth.
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It’s easy to do more with more. What’s harder is being to do just as much, if not more, with less, and that is the route Apple has chosen to take, and it’s a mentality I respect and admire.

I am genuinely happy that your note phone is serving you well. Personally, I just prefer Apple's design principles vs Samsung's kitchen sink approach.

To each their own, I say. Let us each use the device which best suits our individual needs, and be happy that we at least have the option of doing so.

Agreed, to each his own, but I disagree with the idea that with Apple you can do just as much if not more with less.

With Apple, I CAN'T DO PERIOD with less, unless I add MORE dongles, and only for those things they make dongles for.

For some things Apple just makes it harder, more expensive, or flat out impossible to do.

It's the ability to DO these things, in the simplest and most inexpensive way what I appreciate from the Note devices.

But I get that for many (not me) the things I'd miss are trivial when compared with what Apple IS good at (ecosystem integration).
 
I think you are missing his point. Craig said that to unlock a certain portion of your face would have to be viewable and looking at the sensor. A way to test this is to open your camera and put it on the front camera. Half the time I unlock my phone, none of my face is visible. I leave it on my desk next to me and just unlock it with Touch ID, and do whatever I need without picking it up. Never once during the whole interaction was my face even partially visible to the front camera. The removal of touchID completely kills this extremely convenient workflow. I'll take the bottom bezel and touchID over edge to edge screen in every scenario.

Agreed and I think this is a very legitimate concern. I’m hoping Apple is sensible enough to use an ultra-wide lens for the unlock camera or sensor. I don’t want to have to hold my phone at a certain angle and distance for Face ID to work.
 
Straw man argument.

We are talking within the context of the design of a phone, and Apple is not a democracy. They will put out what they think is the best user experience for their customers, and you as the end user get to vote with your wallet. Like it? Buy it. Don’t like it? Then get something else.

Your choice of phone is not a political or philosophical statement.

Not at all a strawman argument. The entirety of your earlier post was:

It’s not exactly rocket science. Having two options means a non-zero chance of people using the lousier option, and that is that many people too many.

In the same vein, why would you knowingly allow people an option you know to be inferior, all in the name of choice and personal freedom?

You are right, it doesn’t affect me, but it could well affect someone I know, whose security I do care about.

Sounds like a very selfish way of thinking. I don’t know these people, so they can suffer worse security for all I care?

Why does that point of view say it's okay for how you unlock your phone but now okay for who you should be allowed to marry?

You very clearly assert people should not have personal choice and freedom because they're too stupid to make their own decisions. And if they can't decide for something as unimportant as tech, they certainly shouldn't be allowed to decide the important stuff.

But even taking it the other way within the context of a phone. What if someone decides people shouldn't be allowed to buy iPhones because it's a poor choice; Samsung gives superior hardware is more expandable and cheaper, so it's foolish to buy an iPhone. Are you okay letting someone else make that decision? Why are you smart enough to enjoy personal freedom while you believe others aren't?
 
Not at all a strawman argument. The entirety of your earlier post was:

Why does that point of view say it's okay for how you unlock your phone but now okay for who you should be allowed to marry?

You very clearly assert people should not have personal choice and freedom because they're too stupid to make their own decisions. And if they can't decide for something as unimportant as tech, they certainly shouldn't be allowed to decide the important stuff.

But even taking it the other way within the context of a phone. What if someone decides people shouldn't be allowed to buy iPhones because it's a poor choice; Samsung gives superior hardware is more expandable and cheaper, so it's foolish to buy an iPhone. Are you okay letting someone else make that decision? Why are you smart enough to enjoy personal freedom while you believe others aren't?

Because your choice of phone is not a statement about what type of government you subscribe to.

If you don’t like the iPhone or what the Apple ecosystem stands for, you are always free to select another product which better suits your needs. And by choosing an Apple product, you are implicitly agreeing to abide by Apple’s design choices and idiosyncrasies, not is Apple obligated to make the design process a democratic process.

This is different from the manner of governance of a country, where it is not always feasible to move to another country if you are unhappy with the way it is being run. There is more at stake here than simply being unable to change your default app.

I say again - my choice of phone and ecosystem is not a statement of my political affiliation.
 
Like it has been said in the past, apple isn't the first to adapt new technology, they wait, improve on it and then release something that is already out there. Others see the potential, see how great IT COULD be and work to get it into their devices. Apple "innovates" by making something better.
 
Apple doesn't want or need to do anything else. They're making money had-over-fist off of people like you who justify EVERY decision they make, however anti-user it is.

What I would've wanted was for them to NOT stop selling the stuff that some of us can use today, and sell their "futuristic" machines ALONGSIDE them to people like you.

I don't need to justify anything either, this is a discussion board where people like you and me share their opinions and mine just seem to be different from yours. I am a drama free person, I buy things that I like and suite my needs and don't bother looking at things that are not for me. Neither do I cry or moan about stuff that are not made to satisfy my needs. There are plenty do go around and Apple is not the only company that makes stuff. But of course, this forum board would be nothing if it wasn't spiced up by some drama and some hate. We are all used to it by now.
Apple does stuff/decisions that makes sense from their business point of view and so far it has worked quite well. Of course there will be people who will not understand it or simply just be unhappy. It is the balanced nature of how things work in this universe. And believe me when I say it, if they weren't doing things right, people would not be handing them their hard earned cash, contrary to what some would want us to believe, that people buy Apple stuff because it is a trend. That is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard.
 
Like it has been said in the past, apple isn't the first to adapt new technology, they wait, improve on it and then release something that is already out there. Others see the potential, see how great IT COULD be and work to get it into their devices. Apple "innovates" by making something better.

Really; Maps better? Siri better? Touch bar better? Any of these anywhere near the best?
 
Let the market and though the people decide which solution wins.

I'm not sure that really works though, people will buy it, there isn't an "iPhone X FaceID" and "iPhone X TouchID" version to choose from, so when people buy the X, Apple will just say "See, people love it!". Same as with camera bumps and notches, people may not like them but they still want the latest or "best" iPhone so won't necessarily go and buy a Samsung instead, doesn't mean they aren't poor design choices.
 
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