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Doesn't change the fact that his personal mac still crashes and he made a conscious decision to use his personal Pc to write his dissertation just because of that.

Actually, thats not at all what he said. What he said was that he couldn't afford a mac at the time so he purchased the Compaq, which he decided to use rather than the university's Macs which were unstable. He then said that he now owns a mac which has crashed a few times.

They were two different stories from two different time periods. I find it illuminating that despite his experience with the university's macs, he still purchased one at a later date. That really says something.

His story was about the stability of a computer that you have control over, which I 100% agree with - PC's can be just fine if you know what you are doing and take the time to maintain it.
 
I love how everyone is ignoring you.
Like you've never ignored anyone? I'm still waiting for your response to a previous post of me (quoted below in case you forgot):

Does everything have to be black-and-white for you, BMWFan? Is it not conceivable that there are people who are Mac users but who also appreciate some of the good things Microsoft does produce? Mac user != Microsoft hater.
 
Like you've never ignored anyone? I'm still waiting for your response to a previous post of me (quoted below in case you forgot):

Just browse through this thread and tell me Mac users don't hate PCs and Microsoft. If a being from another planet just landed on earth and was pointed towards this thread, he would no doubt make the conclusion that Apple is a cult.
 
Just browse through this thread and tell me Mac users don't hate PCs and Microsoft. If a being from another planet just landed on earth and was pointed towards this thread, he would no doubt make the conclusion that Apple is a cult.
You're not really answering the questions. Unless you are a being from another planet. Which would explain a lot.
 
Just browse through this thread and tell me Mac users don't hate PCs and Microsoft. If a being from another planet just landed on earth and was pointed towards this thread, he would no doubt make the conclusion that Apple is a cult.

I'm a Mac user and I don't hate PCs or Microsoft. I prefer OSX but I don't have anything close to hate for Windows.

Saying that all of any group hates all of any other group is a bad mischaracterisation and a bit of a strawman.
 
You're not really answering the questions. Unless you are a being from another planet. Which would explain a lot.

Well the problem is the hate is not being thrown towards a particular subset of MS, but MS as a whole. So you see people claiming M$ SUCKS! M$ IS EVIL etc. while happily giving MS their money for products like xbox etc.

it should be more like " ms is a good company but vista is bad" but you never get that from a Mac user, even ones with MS products. It's always "MS sucks. Apple rulz."
 
it should be more like " ms is a good company but vista is bad" but you never get that from a Mac user, even ones with MS products. It's always "MS sucks. Apple rulz."
Never huh?

I'm a Mac user and I don't hate PCs or Microsoft. I prefer OSX but I don't have anything close to hate for Windows.
And that is only one recent post among a bunch in this thread that don't support your claim.
 
it should be more like " ms is a good company but vista is bad" but you never get that from a Mac user, even ones with MS products. It's always "MS sucks. Apple rulz."

Surely you judge how 'good' a company is by its products?

M$ is good at mass marketing, and agressive bundling of its products, but as for how well they actually work, how easy they are to use and how cleverly their interface is designed.... I am not sure.

Pages and numbers seem to be a lot easier to use than word and excel for instance.

They may wish for "ms software in every computer in every home", but that doesn't say much about whether the products are very good...
 
Hmm... Apples ads countered?? The main point of the Microsoft ads were PRICE. Apple didnt explain why the exorbitant price differences make a Mac worthwhile.
However, offering to actually pay consumers to purchase a laptop, a sacrificial attempt to make a point, seems excessive to the point of being drastic and desperate, quite in line with the subsidizations for the XBox and Zune.

My roomate has a new Macbook.. we got a new Epson printer from the Apple store. My Vista laptop could use the printer immediately without using the disk to supply drivers, Windows went online and got them all automatically. The Mac couldnt do this...
I've always found Epson printer drivers included in OS X. I actually do admire how Vista offers to download drivers for you - this certainly is a positive feature of the OS.

Wait, I think that's the same guy that runs our IT shop. ;)

Being an IT chief over a Windows-based organization would be a fate worse than death. Ask me how solid SharePoint is for us. :mad:
Gotta appreciate IT job security.
 
Surely you judge how 'good' a company is by its products?

M$ is good at mass marketing, and agressive bundling of its products, but as for how well they actually work, how easy they are to use and how cleverly their interface is designed.... I am not sure.

Pages and numbers seem to be a lot easier to use than word and excel for instance.

They may wish for "ms software in every computer in every home", but that doesn't say much about whether the products are very good...

That's my point. And yet Apple users while publicly claiming MS sucks, will more than happily give MS their money. Example take all the mac users with Xbox instead of PS3 for example. If MS sucked so bad why did they buy their products?
 
That's my point. And yet Apple users while publicly claiming MS sucks, will more than happily give MS their money. Example take all the mac users with Xbox instead of PS3 for example. If MS sucked so bad why did they buy their products?

Don't lump me in with that crowd, thanks :)
 
That's my point. And yet Apple users while publicly claiming MS sucks, will more than happily give MS their money. Example take all the mac users with Xbox instead of PS3 for example. If MS sucked so bad why did they buy their products?

I honestly think that when these users say "Microsoft" they are using it to refer to Microsoft's operating system division rather than the company as a whole. Its a bit of a perjorative but its an understandable use concidering that the majority of conversations here concerning Microsoft are related to its operating systems rather than its other products.

In my expereince, one can like the products produced by one segmant of a company while disliking the products made by another segmant of the company without being hypocritical at all. Just because one uses a GE dish washer does not mean that one must also like the programing on NBC.
 
I honestly think that when these users say "Microsoft" they are using it to refer to Microsoft's operating system division rather than the company as a whole. Its a bit of a perjorative but its an understandable use concidering that the majority of conversations here concerning Microsoft are related to its operating systems rather than its other products.

In my expereince, one can like the products produced by one segmant of a company while disliking the products made by another segmant of the company without being hypocritical at all. Just because one uses a GE dish washer does not mean that one must also like the programing on NBC.

I don't buy it. It's easier and quicker to write Windows instead of Microsoft. I think they truly believe MS sucks.
 
HA! At least Office is available for the Mac...

Apple is FAR WORSE at monopolizing software for their OS.. Remember Shake?
A port of Final Cut Studio to Windows would prove to be problematic in terms of having to cater to multiple permutations of hardware configurations. Ironically, Mactopia is one of MS's most profitable divisions.
 
So what, people like to generalize ... but ....

Still, here's the thing... I *used* to be a far bigger supporter of Microsoft than I am today. A lot of things happened to make me feel that way.

1. Bill Gates no longer has any real say-so in the company. I happen to think Steve Ballmer, by comparison, has NO real technical expertise. He's your run-of-the-mill business sales drone, essentially. I don't think Bill Gates would have ever said things Ballmer has said, like predicting the irrelevance of the iPhone. He would have seen it as a "game changing device" and focused a lot of attention on creating a product that competed with it.

2. Microsoft is falling flat on their face in the OS department. When Windows '95 was first released, it was a HUGE change from Windows 3.1. Everyone was excited about it. Windows '98 was a huge stability improvement from there, so people embraced it too. They really dropped the ball with "Windows ME" - but even Bill G. himself admitted that they really just shoved that out the door because Windows '98 hadn't received an update in so long. Most of the programming talent was focused on the Windows 2000 architecture instead. People loved Windows 2000, all in all, and then Windows XP (based on that) was a hit. But now look where they're at. We've got "Windows 2007" on the server side, which is costly and doesn't feel like it addresses needs of anyone but the largest of businesses. Windows Vista was a total bomb (after that LONG wait for it), and now Windows 7 release candidate is proving to be only *slightly* better performing than Vista. It's all "flash" but no "substance". Even needs to run Windows XP in a virtualized environment to retain compatibility with some of the software out there.

3. I *used* to have nothing but praise for MS Office, but again, I think they're gotten off track. Office '07 for Windows is a waste of money. They revamped all the menus enough to confuse everyone who used to know their way around the product, and half the "improvements" really just address FLAWS in the previous version that people should have received free bug-fixes for. Office '08 for OS X? Well, we all know the issues there. No VB script support anymore, "Student" version's Entourage can't even connect to an Exchange server, etc.

4. I never even liked the X-Box. Agreed it sold a lot of units for Microsoft, but look at all the hardware problems it had. Red ring of death, scratching up people's discs if they moved it at all while it was running, overheating .... And ultimately? It's still just a neutered Windows PC. I bought a Sony PS3 instead, because at least I felt like I wasn't just re-buying yet another Windows box in a different looking case.


Well the problem is the hate is not being thrown towards a particular subset of MS, but MS as a whole. So you see people claiming M$ SUCKS! M$ IS EVIL etc. while happily giving MS their money for products like xbox etc.

it should be more like " ms is a good company but vista is bad" but you never get that from a Mac user, even ones with MS products. It's always "MS sucks. Apple rulz."
 
I don't buy it. It's easier and quicker to write Windows instead of Microsoft. I think they truly believe MS sucks.

I think their quality control sucks.

And I am not fond of their aesthetic or ideas on how an intuitive interface should operate.

Just seems to be more about preserving their world domination than actually earning it through developing great products.
 
But it's even quicker to write MS.
True. Altough when they say MS it's still MS as a whole they hate and not a particular branch of MS. For example in a Zune thread they will still say MS sucks. Office thread, they will still say MS sucks. Anything to do with MS, they will say MS sucks.
 
I think their quality control sucks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fErFSBoj3h4&fmt=18

And I am not fond of their aesthetic or ideas on how an intuitive interface should operate.

I can list a number of deficits with the Mac UI. like having to first focus on a window just to access it's menu bar thus making you click more. in windows i can jump from a menu bar to a menu bar.

or working in multiple monitors, having to drag your mouse to the primary monitor everytime you want to access the menu bar of a app that is in the secondary monitor or tertiary monitor.

Just seems to be more about preserving their world domination than actually earning it through developing great products.

Apple and MS started on equal footing. Apple had every chance of success as MS but their arrogance kept them back. MS got the world domination that Apple couldn't by releasing great products at price points that consumers liked. Apple was too arrogant and didn't have the vision to succeed.
 
I think their quality control sucks.

And I am not fond of their aesthetic or ideas on how an intuitive interface should operate.

Just seems to be more about preserving their world domination than actually earning it through developing great products.
This seems to justify reasons for the lack of respect of a company, which has gained its market share primarily, not by virtue, but from engaging in illegal, monopolistic business practices and vendor lock-in, exclusivity contracts.
 
True. Altough when they say MS it's still MS as a whole they hate and not a particular branch of MS. For example in a Zune thread they will still say MS sucks. Office thread, they will still say MS sucks. Anything to do with MS, they will say MS sucks.

We judge a company by its products not its aspirations

When we see an MS logo - it calls on its heritage of sucesses and failures, its reputation for reliability and delivering on its promises

On whether they put product before profit.
 
We judge a company by its products not its aspirations

When we see an MS logo - it calls on its heritage of sucesses and failures, its reputation for reliability and delivering on its promises

On whether they put product before profit.

And yet with all this in mind they go out and buy MS products. Wierd.
 
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