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I'm still using a 2009 iMac with a core 2 duo and 4gb of ram. It is getting slow. Basic things work fine when nothing else is running. Videos lag sometimes, the browser takes time to load. Excel takes nine years to bring up a file. It runs thinkorswim like absolute garbage, in the past it was great but not now.

Then again what do you expect from a 7 year old mac. I'm dying for an upgrade. I probably could do a clean install and it'll be fine but why bother at this point. Next time i do a wipe of teh drive will be when i sell it and i could fetch around 400 for it too, not bad for 7 years old.

With that being said, apple get your head out of your ass and bring us some macs. I do think apple knows back to school is around the corner and will want to get the new ones out then again why bother if the margins are 100x higher on old ass machines that people could be "forced" to buy.
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I have a brand new Skylake i7 based ThinkPad T460s ultrabook sitting on my desk. It's as thin & light as a 13" MacBook Pro and I can upgrade the RAM/SSD to whatever I damn well want as the bottom plate unscrews with ease.

Apple needs to stop being so damn greedy and think about what users need and are asking for. If the iPhone 7 bombs, then perhaps they will get back to basics and start looking after the customers who made Apple what it is today.

I do think the iphone 7 bombs, its not really an update just a spec bump. I still have an iphone 6, 2 years old and not planning to upgrade ill wait another year
 
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You think Apple's sales are bad now, wait until Tim gives the go-ahead to start rolling out the new iMacs, MacBook, & Minis based on the A10x chipset for MacOS Sierra.

Lets face it, the sheer greed of Apple will ensure that ditching Intel for their own chips is only a matter of time. Timmy says to hell with that the users wants & needs and all that...
 
Pent up demand for new MacBook Pros now. We're going to see a big surge for back to school, or whenever the Skylake models come out.

I don't think that will happen, because I think people have now moved into different computers or iPads, obviously not talking about professional users, although people on here so say they have replaced their Mac with the iPad Pro.
We on here are. Tiny tiny percentage of the market, and with all the alternatives for Noe Public even from Apple, I'm not convinced their will be a surge of people willing to spend thousands of dollars or pounds.

But who knows as computer sales have been declining anyway, and even then people are using their phones for more and more tasks now. Evolution I guess?
I would really like a new Mac computer but that's more the geek in me, I'll buy an iPad Pro first as its way cheaper, I'll need to save a lot for a new computer and then justify if I need it these days!
 
Apple has proven time and time again that it can do more with lesser hardware. Changes to OS X have made older hardware performant. Remember just because something has the latest processor, memory, etc... doesn't make it the best overall computer.

Optimization only goes so far. You might be able to get 10%, or even 20% more performance out of the hardware by optimizing it, but that doesn't make up for the fact that the hardware itself is gutless. A non-optimized PC running Windows that is 3 times more powerful (for the same money) will run rings around an optimized Mac. In addition, Apple DON'T optimize their OS to the Mac hardware any more. At the moment Windows 10 runs better on a Mac under Bootcamp than OS X does natively.
 
However, Cook really should have had something to say about Macs at WWDC - even if a pre-announcement hit sales for a few months that would have been because people were waiting whereas now people are wondering if Apple have given up on Macs, and if they switch to PC they probably won't switch back.
I used to say this is a dumb idea because Macs would just stop selling but now I agree. The sales are dropping anyway. And the radio silence and the idiotic "Super. Computer." is starting to make me think that within a year the only models available will be rMB 12" and 14", iPad Pro, iMac (thinnest yet!) and a four-year old Mac Pro.
 
Pent up demand for new MacBook Pros now. We're going to see a big surge for back to school, or whenever the Skylake models come out.

I don't think the regulars on this forum even realize how far behind Apple is. I'm way overdue to replace my 2011 MBP and I'm currently looking at an MSI GS60 4k-238. I've owned a lot of Powerbooks and MBP's since 1999 and this is going to be my first windows laptop.

It's a 15" 0.78" thick laptop, very close in size to the rMBP.

But in that small package, it has a Skylake i7 quad-core CPU, a GTX 970M video chip. A full 4k screen. A 256 gig SSD *and* 1TB spinning drive. Both are industry standard and easily upgradable. All the usual bells and whistles (integrated bluetooth, wifiAC, even usb-C). It has a much better quality keyboard than the macs (meant for gaming). And it's $1800 with 16 gig of ram standard (and in sockets). The battery is also easily user-replacable.

When you can get that much computer for that little money, it's amazing Apple sells and macs at all. Especially when the flagship features of their new OS are stuff like you can unlock it with your apple watch, and you can transfer files to your iPad for editing (I never did figure out why you'd want to).
 
the dell xps 13 is great machine, I almost bought one however the one drawback? It's crappy cheap design. The keyboard i hate and the trackpad thing is horrible. The one thing apple has is quality and not cheap stuff which is why i think they are able to sell old ass machines at high price
 
I don't think that will happen, because I think people have now moved into different computers or iPads, obviously not talking about professional users, although people on here so say they have replaced their Mac with the iPad Pro.

The majority of Apple's professional users moved to PC's a long, long time ago. Apple will always have a tiny hardcore group of Professional users, but most people that need to get work done stopped using Apple computers ages ago.

I've no idea what work people can get done on a iPad Pro if that is their primary device. Whatever it is, it can't be much.
 
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the dell xps 13 is great machine, I almost bought one however the one drawback? It's crappy cheap design. The keyboard i hate and the trackpad thing is horrible. The one thing apple has is quality and not cheap stuff which is why i think they are able to sell old ass machines at high price

For Dell standards, the XPS series are solid machines. The only drawback on the XPS is the hideous glossy screen & the appalling web cam placement. The XPS 13 & XPS 15 are some of the best PC's available right now.
 
So a few observations...

First, there is more to a computer than the latest and greatest specs. Apple has proven time and time again that it can do more with lesser hardware.

While that is true, it is ONLY Apple that is doing that with their software. But Apple is no longer interested in making software. Companies like Adobe, AutoDesk, Black Magic, ect, are NOT building their applications to run on lesser hardware. No large software vendor at this point is going to spend the extra effort to get their app to run on a Macbook Pro with integrated graphics when the majority of PC vendors are using discreet graphics. Once Apple switched to Intel they basically enabled developers to get lazy and no longer make specialized Mac versions of software for specific hardware.

For pro use the Macbook Pro is vastly underpowered and outdated . Its a joke. Saying things like people don't want the latest and greatest and Apple can do more with less is just Apple apologist nonsense. Apples user base needs to stand up and say we are not interested in paying a premium for outdated and vastly under performing hardware so your executives get free gold Apple Watches. Its all about the margins and not about the customer. They are not getting any of my money until they make a product I can use.

For the record I was really impressed that Final Cut could run on the low end MacBook. But unless other software can do the same....its useless. I can run Final Cut, but I can't run my color grading or compositing app. Useless! Maybe if Apple kept Color and Shake alive i'd be all set...but like I said...Apple isn't interested in software.....just watch bands and emojis.
 
My predicament:

I need a new laptop and a MacBook Air will probably work well for my needs. I just don't want to buy one to find that updated MBPs are released soon with good specs and price drops to match the MBA (probably a big ask). Or perhaps the Airs will get discontinued and I'll get a good deal as they sell off old stock.
If I go for the Air now I can get the educational discount plus get the free Beats headphones (which I don't need). So that's $949 and hopefully sell the headphones for $200ish. So that would be $749 plus tax.
Alternatively I could wait until September when they may or may not update the MBPs but miss out on the summer student deal.
Only I can make the decision but I would be grateful for any thoughts/comments you guys might have. What would YOU do? Many thanks in advance.
 
but like I said...Apple isn't interested in software.....just watch bands and emojis.

Do you really believe that Hardware and Software engineers that would otherwise work on your precious Macbook Pro are the ones making watch bands? It's cute that you post things like this a lot, even when you know it's nonsensical.
 
I had to purchase a new computer in June and it pained me to not be able to throw down my purchase on a MacBook Pro. I need both a laptop and a tablet for travel purposes and, unfortunately, when you price those two items together, it made much more sense to go with a Surface Book than an MBP + iPad combo. I really miss iMessage on my computer, but it's a trade off I had to make. If only Apple had a modern, competitively priced hardware set. Bummer.
 
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I have saved pretty much an entire laptop's worth of money, because I am still using my 2012 MBPr 15"; I used to have an excuse to get a new MBP every 2-3 years, now I am looking at 4-5.
I'm in the same boat as you. The upside is my savings account is looking better though and collecting (pretty pathetic) interest. So in the end I can thank Apple for helping me save for the past 1-2 years with (pathetic) interest!
 
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Not only is Apple's current hardware is 400 days old, in fact, any new Apple computer hardware released is usually outdated by atleast a year and over priced.

Any one else surprised that the world total shipment is only 64m computers given how essential computers are today for gov. , schools, homes, and business for the 7B people in the world?
 
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Apple is lucky that Windows is kind of a disaster, or I feel like switching would be closer to a no-brainer.

This is what keeps me with Apple. I have used Windows all my life and I got sick of the pile of mixed garbage and "sort of works" behaviors. Snow Leopard and an iPhone sold me on the Apple brand. Now Apple is making me regret it. But I despise Windows and Linux is trash to me.

Good stats for those who keep defending Tim Cook as an amazing CEO.

The evidence is starting to mount.

First Apple stops innovating, which then leads to crappy products, and now we see market shares decline... It really is time for him to go!

The board needs to oust him as soon as possible before it's too late!

Who do you think decides on the business direction? The board of directors. Shareholder's profit interests. This is the real problem with most every huge corporation. They become disconnected from their own product and lose all sense of vision while chasing the perpetual growth delusion. Tim Cook's failing is in not dominating the board like Jobs did. He might've been a narcissistic ass or a sociopath, but he was successful enough and had good enough vision for those negative traits to service the consumers when he pushed his vision through the corporate BS.

Apple has always been the esthetically more pleasing alternative with superior operating platform. Windows 10 is catching up though and PC makers are finally starting to put out some seriously elegant looking machines.

Elegance shouldn't stop at "looks". Every sexy new Windows laptop or desktop I've examined in person is flimsy, creaky, noisy, and frail.

Apple really missed an opportunity by ignoring Mac updates year after year. I really wish they would license the Mac technology for another company to sell Macs if they don't feel they have the energy to do it anymore.

I'm on the fence about this. The Mac OS benefits from being built to run on a limited scope of hardware. Windows isn't just a disaster due to itself; it suffers with being expected to cover functionality on millions of pieces of variously incompatible pieces of hardware. The biggest thing that drove me away from building PCs wasn't Windows. It was the voodoo of hardware compatibility and the buck-passing of support.

But I would definitely like to buy a replacement content creation workstation... and apple isn't offering what I want there. I'm definitely not returning to Windows unless Apple actually ceases Mac development.

So, computer sales is down, iPad sales is declining, iPhone sales dropped for first time, iPod is dead, Apple Watch sales probably also declining. Not much of a growth company.

* "are"

More importantly: growth can not be perpetual. Chasing perpetual growth is a delusion of capitalist insanity. What do we get from perpetual growth? Overpopulation and cancer. No economy will EVER support perpetual growth.

it's rough being a mac computer consumer. Corporate doesn't care about even yearly refreshes on each product line. which blows.

At this point, i am considering the next Macbook Pro... but if it isn't what i want... i may go PC. no point in my 100% loyalty. already dual boot.

No corporation is loyal to anyone but themselves. They're not loyal to customers. Hell, they're not even loyal to their nation of origin. There's zero reason for a consumer to show loyalty to a corporation. (same for employees, these days; until corporations discover value in loyalty to their employees, they deserve no loyalty from them)

Doesn't this sort of feel like deja vu? You know back when Steve was fired and Apple walked merrily into the wilderness and got lost?

Yes. I've been seeing this for a long time. I was giving Apple leadership the benefit of the doubt but the shark was jumped at iOS 7. I'm not shouting "doom", but I am shouting "totally lost their vision".

No worries. Their margins are huge compared to any others. I'm a happy shareholder!

Thank you for proving my point about who runs Apple.

Yeah the top-end Skull Canyon Nuc looks like a great contender to the Mac mini, if you don't mind the external power brick.

I PREFER external power bricks.

1. Silent.
2. No heat added to case and computing components.
3. Replaceable without performing surgery on the computer. Often replaceable with third party product.

All computers should use them.

Of course that's what I'm saying. They are not computers in that a pro/power user can use day to day. As a musician, I can't make a studio quality recording even on the iPad Pro. Will it get to the point that I can? Maybe. But in the meantime, I need a traditional computer to do what I do. I suspect I'm not the only person in this boat.

This is where my frustration on waiting for a new Mac Pro comes from. Except, I'm not just waiting for a new music machine. I'm also waiting for a new photography workstation.

I'm currently on my last modern-ish MacBook Pro. It's a 2009 13" that can't be upgraded to Sierra. My 15" died of nvidia GPU heat death a couple years ago and I've been reluctant to push my 13" as hard for risk of GPU failure. I'm poor, and I hate cheap junk, and I hate Windows and PC hardware. So I have been sitting on a "new computer nest egg" for years, waiting for Apple to offer the workstation replacement I need. I cannot afford to buy a new machine every 5 years, let alone the ridiculous 3 years the industry pushes now. I buy once and that it for a long time.

A 15" display is frustrating enough. 13" and smaller is ridiculous, especially with the need to zoom to see your image at 100% and then zoom in to edit it. Retina-resolution is taking way too long to be standard in computers. The Mac Pro should've had it from day one. Even today, Mac Pro and high-ppi is seriously clunky and unreliable. (I can't afford to replace a dead iMac retina if the GPU fails thanks to laptop style components and poor heat dissipation design, and I don't want the fan noise)

I hoped I could do some photography on my iPad Pro (yes, despite being 12.9"; having retina resolution eliminates some zooming). Little did I realize that the thing came with zero support for raw photos. Maybe iOS 10? But what will iOS 10 break for me? Apps? How much more sluggish and buggy will iOS 10 be?

Sick of this.

Using Logic and wave editing tools isn't exactly comfortable on a 15" display, but it's perfectly usable. Not at 13".

So, yeah. With you on the need for a workstation from Apple. Laptop components are not acceptable for workstations (unless you're wealthy enough to buy replacement computers every couple of years, which is environmentally frelled-up).

I see popular musicians on obviously old 08 Macs, if they can get by with that, I am sure you can with anything sold within the last few years. What kind of music are you creating that couldn't be handled by a XEON based Mac Pro with 64 GBs of RAM?

I think for you, it just boils down to a case of you wanting the latest and greatest, nothing wrong with that. At the same time, nothing wrong with Apple hardware over the past two years that could prevent you from doing what you want, because I see musicians using PowerPC based Macs with Cinema displays and they are on Billboard making millions.

Depends on what associated outboard gear (and requisite connections) the musicians are using in their studios, what software they need/want to run (that's why some people still have old PPC machines or are still running Snow Leopard, because of required PPC support), which OS they have vs which one their choice music software supports (want the latest Reaktor? You must upgrade to Mavericks or later)...

The longer you hold off on upgrading, the less you upset your ecosystem. But the consequence is that your software stops being updated and you're eventually forced to upgrade. Once you do that, you're then faced with the likelihood of replacing outboard gear as well because the company that made it has abandoned it and it doesn't work on new OS versions or newer buses ("FireWire to thunderbolt", or "USB 2 to USB 3" works in some cases, but not all). The longer you wait, the more stuff needs replacing. The more stuff that needs replacing, the more likely you are to want to buy into the newest standards so that you can stay with that one machine for a long time again.

Where's thunderbolt 3 or display port 1.3???

Not on Macs.

It also depends on what else they need to do with their machines. For me, I need a music workstation to ALSO be a photography production workstation. Laptop displays aren't large enough and third party display support sucks (and Apple sells no independent Retina display). Mac display options are piss poor unless you can buy a retina iMac (and can afford to replace it when constant heavy GPU and CPU use kills it).

I think the general trend is that there will be less and less updates to the Mac lines from now on. First of all, CPU upgrades are happening less frequently than before, and moreover, each increment is bringing less performance increase now. Hence, even if Apple updates their Mac lines with each CPU refresh from Intel, people will still skip more than before and upgrade less. We get like 5% speed increase with a new line of CPU's from Intel, which is quite irrelevant.

Speed is not the issue. Support for new buses and standalone high-ppi displays IS the issue. Why would you want to buy a machine that lacks either of these when you're a content creator that needs access to vast amounts of high speed external storage, low latency audio devices, and retina-style display capability?
 
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