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My device was not a phone but an android tablet. The day after installing the app the device became unresponsive to the virtual keyboard. No amount of coaxing, persuasion, swearing, threats of harm and looks of anger worked. I restored the device to factory, reinstalled all the apps but the last app. Everything was working as it should.

Fair play, I would agree with your assessment. Was the app later removed from the Play Store for being malicious, or just for being buggy / causing issues with the on-screen keyboard?


Can Apple vet apps in third party stores? If Apple can, that would certainly help with the trust level of the third party store.

That's certainly Apple's proposal.


Several people in the store with problems on their phones, iPads and Macs where the only resolution was a DFU restore. The whining and waling from losing all their photos is obvious. Were the problems IOS related or the problem in an app? Or both? Or just bad luck?

Well, there are currently no alternative app sources, and it sounds like the SOP at the Genuis Bar is already to do a DFU restore. So nothing will change. As I said, debugging computer issues can take hours, and involve obscure **** you'd never have suspected. Ain't no-one got time for that at the 'Bar. That's what iCloud backups are for.
 
Was the app later removed from the Play Store for being malicious, or just for being buggy / causing issues with the on-screen keyboard?
I have no idea. All I found it was removed for violating the store rules or something along those lines.
SOP at the Genuis Bar is already to do a DFU restore
I have watched the Apple employees try to solve an issue without a DFU restore. Although I was not privy to the actual discussion.
That's what iCloud backups are for
The number of people that have no backup, not even iCloud is much higher than I thought. I have personally helped people with no backups of any kind. I have seen people almost in tears at the Apple Store because they have lost all their pictures because their phone must be sent in for repairs, or a DFU restore at the store.
 
The EU switched over to calling Apple a gatekeeper since no one has been able to legally prove that Apple with its 30% usage in the EU is a monopoly. Even in the US, where Apple has higher usage, no one has proven they are a monopoly.

The DMA applies to both Apple and Google (and others in related areas). Whether 30% of smartphones are iOS and 70% are Android, or the other way round, is irrelevant. In either scenario, both companies are in a position to monopolise their platforms, by being the only source of software.

Your argument hinges on the fact that Google don't currently choose to block app stores other than their own. But nothing's stopping them - at least legally. If they were to do so, we really would just have the choice between two monopolies, and switching platforms would be pointless.

The DMA is a legal measure to ensure that doesn't happen (amongst other things). And not just relying on Google's largesse, whilst letting Apple do what it wants.
 
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The DMA applies to both Apple and Google (and others in related areas). Whether 30% of smartphones are iOS and 70% are Android, or the other way round, is irrelevant. In either scenario, both companies are in a position to monopolise their platforms, by being the only source of software.

Your argument hinges on the fact that Google don't currently choose to block app stores other than their own. But nothing's stopping them - at least legally. If they were to do so, we really would just have the choice between two monopolies, and switching platforms would be pointless.

The DMA is a legal measure to ensure that doesn't happen (amongst other things). And not just relying on Google's largesse, whilst letting Apple do what it wants.
My argument does not hinge on that. What I’m saying that that no one has proven that Apple is a monopoly, or that they do monopolize their platform. What they might do is legally irrelevant, only what they do do (giggle) or did do matters.
 
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The EU switched over to calling Apple a gatekeeper since they haven’t been able to prove that Apple with its 30% usage is a monopoly. Even in the US, where Apple has higher usage, no one has proven they are a monopoly.
And gatekeeper status has no real relationship to business practices. It's based on the number of users. The EU knew that the practices they claimed were "anticompetitive" for Apple were mostly status quo in the tech sector. Trying to apply the DMA to the entire market would have been hugely unpopular for that very reason.

People are going to find out rather quickly that forcing 3rd party stores on iOS has no real competitive value.
 
The number of people that have no backup, not even iCloud is much higher than I thought. I have personally helped people with no backups of any kind. I have seen people almost in tears at the Apple Store because they have lost all their pictures because their phone must be sent in for repairs, or a DFU restore at the store.

Yeah, well, it's a mistake you only make once. And I say that from personal experience, albeit in the days before iCloud.

I'm sure a Genius would spend 10 minutes trying to sort a problem before going for the nuclear option. Some things are simple. But once you've tried the low-hanging fruit, you rapidly head into blank cheque territory, and it's time to just hold your nose and wipe the OS.

With personal machines I've spent hours putting off the 'agony' of a re-install, then sometimes wound up having to do so anyway and found it relatively painless. At least you're then making progress, with a clear and certain end in sight.
 
In either scenario, both companies are in a position to monopolise their platforms, by being the only source of software.
Ultimately irrelevant since app developers are not limited to developing for mobile. You can sell the same app on Windows and Mac too. Or on consoles too if you're a game developer.
 
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My argument does not hinge on that. What I’m saying that that no one has proven that Apple is a monopoly, or that they do monopolize their platform. What they might do is legally irrelevant, only what they do do (giggle) or did do matters.

It does hinge on that, in that you can only take the 'just buy an Android phone' line because Google happen to have an open app marketplace. There is nothing legally compelling them to do so, and could announce a different model tomorrow if it were in their best interests. The EU can't simply rely on Google to provide the yin to Apple's yang.

In any case, the DMA is much wider than iOS vs Android, and doesn't depend on whether anyone can prove Apple is a monopoly. The EU legislators have spoken, and believe it or not, Apple aren't above the law. At some point, it will likely happen in the US as well, as it did with the Microsoft anti-trust case, and then it won't just feel like a Europe vs America thing.

And of course Apple monopolise their platform. Ask any developer. To claim otherwise is absurd. Schiller is literally arguing that its in everyone's interest for Apple to be able to do so.
 
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Well anything in life is a risk but if I want to jump out of a plane or install some 3rd party app, that’s my decision to make.

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Yes it is your decision to make — I hope Apple will put in security features so that I can make the decision to block your Apple hardware from communicating with mine if yours has third-party software. There is a small but significant risk of your device exfiltrating sensitive data from my device or initiating a script to install malware on my device. You might want to sleep with these diseases ridden apps — I just don’t want to catch whatever crap they may have.
 
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Google Maps isn't specific to mobile. Neither is WhatsApp. Neither is Spotify. Neither is Tinder. Neither is pretty much any Microsoft app.

Have you seen a smartphone before? It's like a computer, but smaller and you can take it out of the house. The fact you can use Google Maps at your desk isn't much good when you're driving down the highway. Sheesh.
 
Yes it is your decision to make — I hope Apple will put in security features so that I can make the decision to block your Apple hardware from communicating with mine if yours has third-party software.
Anything that's not from Apple is third-party software. Slack, Telegram, Airbnb, you name it. Nobody would buy an iPhone without third-party apps.
Slack from the Mac App Store is the same level of secure as Slack from their website. You also wanna block colleagues from texting you when Slack on their device is from Android or when they use the website-downloaded Slack app and not the one from the Mac App Store?
There is a small but significant risk of your device exfiltrating sensitive data from my device or initiating a script to install malware on my device. You might want to sleep with these diseases ridden apps — I just don’t want to catch whatever crap they may have.
Right. If someone uses a modified Slack version, they can simply put a virus on mine? I think that's baseless fearmongering.

The only real danger is others having your contact data and data brokers feeding off them, but that is already the case and there is nothing you can do about it except contacting said data brokers and request to delete your data so they don't spam you with robo-calls, SMS or mails. But even if you do, your data is already on the black market so there is little to prevent bad actors to scam you.
Just look in your spam folder. That's a daily reminder of your mail address lying around on the internet from past leaks, hacks or people around you not caring about protecting your data.
 
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Have you seen a smartphone before? It's like a computer, but smaller and you can take it out of the house. The fact you can use Google Maps at your desk isn't much good when you're driving down the highway. Sheesh.
Have you seen vehicles in 2024? They have computers inside them and apps too.
 
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Of course it is. Money that is legally theirs, at least in the EU.
Legally theirs? That doesn't make any sense relative to the EU market cap approach. Above the cap? It's "anticompetitive". Below the cap? It's competitive.
 
Legally theirs? That doesn't make any sense relative to the EU market cap approach. Above the cap? It's "anticompetitive". Below the cap? It's competitive.
Of course it makes sense because it has been explained rather easily. Any company with a position of significant power in the market which is able to block and choke competitors is designated as gatekeeper. Apple does not only fall into this category, it also exercised all of these activities within the EU domain.
This is not Apple's place, they are a participant in this market and they have to behave.
 
Of course it makes sense because it has been explained rather easily. Any company with a position of significant power in the market which is able to block and choke competitors is designated as gatekeeper.
Like I said, the specific practices which the EU claims are "anticompetitive" and which you claim "block and choke competitors" are allowed under the market cap. So they're not really anticompetitive. And they don't really block and choke. They're status quo practices. That's why the EU doesn't want to apply the DMA to the entire market.
 
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Like I said, the specific practices which the EU claims are "anticompetitive" and which you claim "block and choke competitors" are allowed under the market cap. So they're not really anticompetitive.
Of course it is anti-competitive, and it has been outlined in the DMA very clearly and explained why.
And they don't really block and choke. They're status quo practices. That's why the EU doesn't want to apply the DMA to the entire market.
Same case. Anti-competitive is by exploiting a position of power, which Apple does by qualifying as gatekeeper. It applies to everyone in the market just alike.
Same with taxes, your rate is tiered in many states around the world. It's called balance.
It’s their ecosystem, their App Store.
The EU is the EU's ecosystem. Apple can do whatever they want, they can even burn a witch, just not here.
 
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