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Apple's Phil Schiller Discusses Risks of Alternative App Stores on iPhone

wbeasley said:
Why dont you just get AltStore and install what you want?

Gets your perceived problem solved...
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I don't need Altstore and devs can use official means to get their apps to their customer. The problem is, as we told you more than a dozen times, Apple restricting competition and exploiting its position of power. The EU doesn't have to support this behaviour with money, and we won't support it either.
You can do whatever you want, whereever it's allowed.
wbeasley said:
Leaves the rest of us alone...
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Are you in the EU? No? Then you are left alone.
wbeasley said:
You have the tools available.
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I don't. Not yet.
wbeasley said:
There is no need to legislate anything if you can do this. The most motivated (and you seem to be) surely are up to the task. Surely.
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This is not about me but about a fair market. That is why there is legislation. The US has legislation, too.
TonnyM said:
Sideloading is another way into the iPhones security.
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It is not. Apps are sandboxed. Apps are vetted by Apple still.
TonnyM said:
You may never use the door, but the fact that they exist makes things less secure by definition. Someone sooner or later will break through the door.
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No more and no less malware gets on iOS, doesn't depend on it being on the App Store or on a different app marketplace. You have zero human security checks in the App Review. No one is looking at what the code does.
 
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Thankfully, it is easy to contact the antitrust commission to raise an issue, and I will do that.

Apple did not comply by allowing access free of charge, and I will raise all these points to them. This is our market and not yours.

Somehow it is unacceptable for you folks to understand that a different place in the world doesn't belong to Apple.
 
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A couple of thoughts:
- will I be able to use the marketplace and update the apps I downloaded when I am outside the EU? (Say I am a student and travel for a semester abroad)
- how about apps that are forbidden in certain countries? Will they scan my iPhone at the airport for non App Store marketplaces and prevent me from entering the country?
 
Praesto said:
Apple likely knows that people will be coming in more often for support due to issues stemming from maliciously created or poorly developed apps through alt app stores
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…which they reviewed themselves.
Praesto said:
A simple solution is to require a full factory reset of devices that contain such applications prior to servicing. If problem goes away after full reset, and before these are loaded back,
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Same as today. No difference.

Issues from apps that would require a full reset of the devices are not a substantial issue on macOS - and they won’t be on iOS (given how that doesn’t allow for kernel extension drivers and has restricted app background activity anyway).
 
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TonnyM said:
Sideloading is another way into the iPhones security. You may never use the door, but the fact that they exist makes things less secure by definition. Someone sooner or later will break through the door.
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The door exists today. You can sideload today. Just download an app from a website, install, trust the developer certificate and there you go. No app review by Apple. Google and Facebook, among others, in fact used that.

👉🏻 You don’t use the door - nothing changes compared to the status quo.
 
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I7guy said:
Well apple complied, although not to many on MR liking.
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They made an attempt at compliance - and so far, feedback from impacted third-parties doesn’t inspire confidence that they complied with the intent of the regulation.

(Note: which is relevant. Whether their current attempt will stand or not, this is not going to be a case of simply finding and exploiting loopholes in legal text)
 
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raythompsontn said:
After the fact that would be a prudent decision. The app seemed legitimate, actually did what it said it would accomplish. The problem was an ancillary payload hidden in the app. To be honest I cannot 100% blame the app but I am about 99% certain the app caused the problem. My android device ceased to function one day after downloading the app, the only change to the system.
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As I said my family members have had androids for years & no issues.
Just don’t download the app.
 
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Sounds pretty easy for Apple to put so many nags and "are you sure?" questions on downloading alternative apps that it becomes so much of a hassle that people just stick with the official App Store.
 
AlexisV said:
Sounds pretty easy for Apple to put so many nags and "are you sure?" questions on downloading alternative apps that it becomes so much of a hassle that people just stick with the official App Store.
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…unless that is prohibited by the law as a circumvention measure. Which it is:

„The gatekeeper shall not degrade the conditions or quality of any of the core platform services provided to business users or end users who avail themselves of the rights or choices laid down in Articles 5, 6 and 7, or make the exercise of those rights or choices unduly difficult, including by offering choices to the end-user in a non-neutral manner, or by subverting end users’ or business users' autonomy, decision-making, or free choice via the structure, design, function or manner of operation of a user interface or a part thereof.“
 
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TonnyM said:
Sideloading is another way into the iPhones security. You may never use the door, but the fact that they exist makes things less secure by definition. Someone sooner or later will break through the door.
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Your iPhone is already broken with both iMessage and a Phone apps. No one needs to sideload anything in order to manipulate you into a scam. Spyware such as Pegasus or Predator or Reign don't need to sideload anything to harvest all of your communication.

The good thing is if you think you've been hacked all you need to do is restart your phone and everything goes back to normal.

US has failed time and time again to dismantle NSO Group and other "cyber-security" startups and companies based in Israel and Cyprus who make these tools available to totalitarian groups, governments and terrorists.
 
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AppliedMicro said:
They have monopolised distribution of apps to consumers on their iOS platform.
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When GM, who isn't the most popular but has enough users to be considered an EU gatekeeper, gets rid of CarPlay in their upcoming EVs, they will have monopolized the touchscreen controls. Guess what the solution to that is when purchasing a car.
 
il_teo77 said:
A couple of thoughts:
- will I be able to use the marketplace and update the apps I downloaded when I am outside the EU? (Say I am a student and travel for a semester abroad)
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It's the same as before. Those marketplaces are just an extension of the current App Store.
il_teo77 said:
- how about apps that are forbidden in certain countries? Will they scan my iPhone at the airport for non App Store marketplaces and prevent me from entering the country?
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Same as now - your apps come from your normal App Store region which is not sanctioned by the visiting country's government/regime. Tourists/visitors are not expected to adjust their phones and delete apps and other content like mails, even when visiting countries like China which ban many of our apps and conversations that we take part in.
As for scanning your phone, some countries already do that, like Russia.
I7guy said:
Definitely legal.
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Depends on the country/market.
 
Hails09 said:
Just don’t download the app.
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Do you really think I thought "This app will brick my device, I think I will download it."?

Had I KNOWN what the app would do I would have never downloaded the app. Nowhere in the description of the app was it stated that the app was nefarious and would cause issues. The problem is the Google Play Store that did not properly vet the app.
 
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makitango said:
It's the same as before. Those marketplaces are just an extension of the current App Store.

Same as now - your apps come from your normal App Store region which is not sanctioned by the visiting country's government/regime. Tourists/visitors are not expected to adjust their phones and delete apps and other content like mails, even when visiting countries like China which ban many of our apps and conversations that we take part in.
As for scanning your phone, some countries already do that, like Russia.

Depends on the country/market.
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There is no place it’s not illegal. Now if you’re the EU you thread the needle and then force apple to allow the creation of alternative app stores.
 
raythompsontn said:
Do you really think I thought "This app will brick my device, I think I will download it."?

Had I KNOWN what the app would do I would have never downloaded the app. Nowhere in the description of the app was it stated that the app was nefarious and would cause issues. The problem is the Google Play Store that did not properly vet the app.
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There is no evidence that is suggesting that Google's vetting process is superior or inferior.
I7guy said:
There is no place it’s not illegal. Now if you’re the EU you thread the needle and then force apple to allow the creation of alternative app stores.
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We don't force Apple to do anything. We have some house rules like every other place in the world has, and each visitor has to follow the rules if they want to do something here.

If you want to hang on to the word "force", by all means. Everyone is forced to do things everywhere, all the time. The EU eexercises the same practice of regulation and legislation that the US, the UK or whoever else does. Every area in the world has some shared rules and some that are different.

You're the one that blames the EU for doing something that everyone else does.
 
Where they can avoid it harming _others_, Apple should just let it all through. If people want to fill their phones with garbage, get exploited by carnival hucksters like Tim Sweeney, or risk bricking their device, on their head be it.
 
contacos said:
Well anything in life is a risk but if I want to jump out of a plane or install some 3rd party app, that’s my decision to make.

Next
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You're just not smart enough to make that decision according to Apple. Oh but you can use MacOS and pretty much install anything you want on there. I suppose iPhone/iPad users aren't as smart as MacOS users.
 
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