Apple's Phil Schiller Discusses Risks of Alternative App Stores on iPhone

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Well apple complied, although not to many on MR liking.

that hasn't been established yet

 

[makitango]

Well apple complied, although not to many on MR liking.

Assuming that they are not affiliated with Apple or in conflict of interest. It's a very different situation on national blogs.

 

[wbeasley]

No. If I want to emulate games, I'd gladly do it on a Rasperry Pi or mini PC (maybe my Mac mini PC).
Playing old non-touch enabled games on a touchscreen device is and will remain a sub-par experience.

I fully agree with the EU commission: There should not be a gatekeeper that controls (and charges) for all software installation and digital services provided on a general-purpose computer like the iPhone.

When Spotify provide an expensive service to me, Apple does not deserve a 30% cut of revenue. They deserve no more from it than when I buy a physical book through the Amazon app - or hail a ride through the Uber app

And withholding in-app account management features and purchasing options (without paying such cut) is not only anti-consumer. It is also anti-competitive. Especially when Apple themselves have begun competing in most digital goods/services they're charging third-parties for.

They certainly don't need all that app store revenue rent to maintain or innovate the platform.

Practically, the purchase of a smart phone is non-optional in today's society, given how how much of life practically depends on it.

So if you dont want to emulate games, what apps do you NEED to run sideloaded?

Spotify are hardly a great corporate citizen to use as an example.
I use them but their treatment of talent is bad with lowest payments and no high res offering.
The interface works (for me) easier than Apple Music. Only reason I stay with it.

Apple does not charge for all gatekeeping. Look at how many apps are free.

Apple do need Services. It's a huge growth segment (for many companies) as it provides ongoing revenue.
People stopped owning things like they used to. Or would you rather Streaming went away and the old model of buying music and movies returned?

Yes almsot everyone owns a phone. Often work assume you have one.
But you still have a choice of two platforms.
One that is open and one that's not.
But with millions of approved apps, Apple is hardly keeping it all to themselves.
How many billions have they paid out to devs?

So will the EU target game consoles next as gatekeepers of their hardware?
They are more tightly controlled.

 

[wbeasley]

I'll bite. Some years ago I developed an alternative client for my school's registry (seeing as the official client sucked hard). I could install it on my friends' Android phones, but my friends with iPhones were out of luck. Had Apple allowed sideloading, I could've shared my app with all my friends indiscriminately.

I don't expect you to change your mind, but some of y'all will say that I'm lying.

And yet you could have put that app onto the App Store and allowed others to use it.
And devs often provide access to a group of users.

Your use case example would affect a very very small number of users.
It's a valid example and Apple could find ways to allow this situation and make it easier.
Without allowing open slather sideloading.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

I wouldn’t expect any retailer on the Planet to say anything different from what Phill Schiller said regarding his own Store compared to others.

What I find unexpected is that a lot of customers buy into such unsophisticated sales pitch.

He knows that if App Store in iOS had the same kind of conditions and competition as it has in macOS would maybe have the same kind of revenue. Which in macOS is clearly way less yet as on OS is way more powerful, way more useful in getting things done. Look at iPad OS apps going around in circles while devices prices are pumped up … it’s not great to see as a customer.

PS: I will be surprised if the EU allows Apple to keep the ability to veto the availability of apps in third party App Stores as well as the existence of the third App Store it self.

 

[wbeasley]

I’m struggling to find anyone other than you that’s complaining at this moment in time.

there's not that many out of the whole group arguing one way or the other... perhaps most are silent because they dont see any real benefit in changing the current setup?

If there was a need, surely most people here would be onside and pushing for it.

very very few answers to what you NEED to install that you can't already.
Game emulators most common answer. That's it?

 

[turbineseaplane]

What I find unexpected is that a lot of customers buy into such unsophisticated sales pitch.

Must work, as Phil does these interviews by choice (or at minimum by Apple forcing him to).
They need not do any interviews...it must actually help push their narratives.

 

[makitango]

So if you dont want to emulate games, what apps do you NEED to run sideloaded?

Do you NEED to defend Apple? Same logic.

Spotify are hardly a great corporate citizen to use as an example.
I use them but their treatment of talent is bad with lowest payments and no high res offering.
The interface works (for me) easier than Apple Music. Only reason I stay with it.

Spotify are free to keep their money, as it is their work.

Apple does not charge for all gatekeeping. Look at how many apps are free.

There's censoring and "free" is oftentimes just the download. Not even Slack is free.

Apple do need Services. It's a huge growth segment (for many companies) as it provides ongoing revenue.

Apple needs it because their products cannot carry them anymore.

People stopped owning things like they used to. Or would you rather Streaming went away and the old model of buying music and movies returned?

As if it were such a bad thing. I don't recall past generations complaining about buying music they like.

Yes almsot everyone owns a phone. Often work assume you have one.
But you still have a choice of two platforms.
One that is open and one that's not.

Two now. Can choose to stay and not throw a phone on the environment.

But with millions of approved apps, Apple is hardly keeping it all to themselves.
How many billions have they paid out to devs?

How many billions have they kept to themselves?

So will the EU target game consoles next as gatekeepers of their hardware?
They are more tightly controlled.

Consoles are not personal computers owned by almost every single person.

I wouldn’t expect any retailer on the Planet to say anything different from what Phill Schiller said regarding his own Store compared to others.

Yup. Yet here we are with some people claiming that they believe 100% what he says.

What I find unexpected is that a lot of customers buy into such unsophisticated sales pitch.

I find it doubtful that there are actually real customers here who support this. More likely paid actors. The narrative is largely twisted when comparing the comments to domestic news sites' comments sections. Apple doesn't have the attention span for those sites.

He knows that if App Store in iOS had the same kind of conditions and competition as it as in macOS would maybe have the same kind of revenue. Which in macOS is clearly way less yet as on OS is way more powerful, way more useful in getting things done.

Yes. I also think that this is the main reason. It's funny how none of the press material not once mention the word revenue or money, and instead they trash their macOS by making people believe they are moving targets for a hungry internet out there.

Must work, as Phil does these interviews by choice (or at minimum by Apple forcing him to).
They need not do any interviews...it must actually help push their narratives.

They probably offered him a package of AAPLs. I doubt he's still much involved in day-to-day things at Apple, much like Eddy Cue who I think just had enough of it all, especially with being a key witness in the revealed App Store lawsuit communications he had with Steve etc.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

I find it doubtful that there are actually real customers here who support this

I believe that most vocal are shareholders. Which is also understandable that they act as megafones of the status quo promoted by their favorite investment.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

Must work, as Phil does these interviews by choice (or at minimum by Apple forcing him to).
They need not do any interviews...it must actually help push their narratives.

Well, I think it works for people surrounded by the Apple brand and ecosystem. For the rest, they see it as I see it.

Although I really like their products, in the grand scheme of things I think Apple has been given too much credit. If overnight all Apple tech stopped working would have far less impact than say Microsoft tech stopped working. This is how profound their impact goes in ...

The problem that I have with TC reign is that unlike Steve Jobs he plays for the short term. AI just got Apple with the pants down … even though Steve Jobs was the first to introduce a mass market digital assistant … TC never understood it and preferred electric cars.

Clearly Nadella is playing a long term game while TC is burning bridges for short term goals.

Will ses how Vision Pro, an entirely new Apple platform, goes. But compared to OpenAI … ChatGPT is what the iPhone was, not Vision Pro. TC is totally deluded as the world is once again changing and he can’t understand it yet … or just scared … he clearly feels the need to bank on SJ iPhone credits to explain the Vision Pro impact instead of articulating something profound. It’s just poor.

 

[darngooddesign]

It does hinge on that, in that you can only take the 'just buy an Android phone' line because Google happen to have an open app marketplace. There is nothing legally compelling them to do so, and could announce a different model tomorrow if it were in their best interests. The EU can't simply rely on Google to provide the yin to Apple's yang.

In any case, the DMA is much wider than iOS vs Android, and doesn't depend on whether anyone can prove Apple is a monopoly. The EU legislators have spoken, and believe it or not, Apple aren't above the law. At some point, it will likely happen in the US as well, as it did with the Microsoft anti-trust case, and then it won't just feel like a Europe vs America thing.

And of course Apple monopolise their platform. Ask any developer. To claim otherwise is absurd. Schiller is literally arguing that its in everyone's interest for Apple to be able to do so.

It doesn’t because I don’t have a problem with side loading. But please, keep telling me what I think.

 

[I7guy]

that hasn't been established yet

Since people have voiced their opinions I’ll let those posts speak for themselves.

 

[dypeterc]

Well anything in life is a risk but if I want to jump out of a plane or install some 3rd party app, that’s my decision to make.

Next

The plane that you jump from is going to have rules in place to ensure safety and security of you and other passengers so not the best analogy

 

[makitango]

It doesn’t because I don’t have a problem with side loading. But please, keep telling me what I think.

You cannot expect people to believe you when they don't know you and your motives, while you say things that are contrary to anyone real they talked to about the topic.

You try to twist their opinion that the majority doesn't want this while the majority already gave them the opposite feedback. People here in the EU welcome this, and while this is mainly targeted at developers, this also approaches a core customer request from a company which lies about its true intentions.
The revealed messages between Apple executives laid this bare open.

 

[makitango]

Since people have voiced their opinions I’ll let those posts speak for themselves.

Since many pro-sideloading members here are constantly getting suspended by simply calling people out, this is hardly showing any demographics. While this is also, at the same time, one of the core social media platforms Apple is interested in when it comes to investing in narratives.

I'd suggest you go to an EU country and ask random customers on the streets or at an Apple Store. Obviously, neither Apple nor anyone here wants to do that because it would be an embarrassing result. People who live here know this and it doesn't matter if it is Jobs, Schiller or Cook, no one will believe them that the Earth is flat.

 

[I7guy]

Since many pro-sideloading members here are constantly getting suspended by simply calling people out, this is hardly showing any demographics. While this is also, at the same time, one of the core social media platforms Apple is interested in when it comes to investing in narratives.

I'd suggest you go to an EU country and ask random customers on the streets or at an Apple Store. Obviously, neither Apple nor anyone here wants to do that because it would be an embarrassing result. People who live here know this and it doesn't matter if it is Jobs, Schiller or Cook, no one will believe them that the Earth is flat.

Maybe it's better than on MR not to call people out.

I just voice my opinion. Disagree or agree with my opinion that's what these discussions are for. If you want to start some sort of a poll, please feel free. The best forum would probably be the Apple Inc and Tech Forum.

 

[wbeasley]

Do you NEED to defend Apple? Same logic.

Do you NEED to defend Apple? Same logic.

Spotify are free to keep their money, as it is their work.

There's censoring and "free" is oftentimes just the download. Not even Slack is free.

Apple needs it because their products cannot carry them anymore.

As if it were such a bad thing. I don't recall past generations complaining about buying music they like.

Two now. Can choose to stay and not throw a phone on the environment.

How many billions have they kept to themselves?

Consoles are not personal computers owned by almost every single person.

Yup. Yet here we are with some people claiming that they believe 100% what he says.

I find it doubtful that there are actually real customers here who support this. More likely paid actors. The narrative is largely twisted when comparing the comments to domestic news sites' comments sections. Apple doesn't have the attention span for those sites.

Yes. I also think that this is the main reason. It's funny how none of the press material not once mention the word revenue or money, and instead they trash their macOS by making people believe they are moving targets for a hungry internet out there.

They probably offered him a package of AAPLs. I doubt he's still much involved in day-to-day things at Apple, much like Eddy Cue who I think just had enough of it all, especially with being a key witness in the revealed App Store lawsuit communications he had with Steve etc.

Defending the terms Apple was very clear about with buyers and developers BEFORE you purchased?

I pay for Spotify directly. Apple get nothing from me for using it. I'd bet a lot of people do that. Pay on Spotify website. They just want to tell people who discover the app through AppStore to do it that way and avoid paying Apple.

So why should Slack be free?
The app store is a great way to trial software and sometime you get limited functions for free. Or should everything be free for you?

Apple moved to Services because the world went off buying stuff.
Some people still prefer to but Office one off rather than subscribe.
Some would prefer a lot of apps that moved to subscription model offer buy once option. Read the reviews of apps.

Consoles not owned by everyone? Geez, what rock are you living under? There arent many households with kids or under 40s that dont have one or two consoles. The market for gaming is how big?

Spotify are free to keep their money, as it is their work.

There's censoring and "free" is oftentimes just the download. Not even Slack is free.

Apple needs it because their products cannot carry them anymore.

As if it were such a bad thing. I don't recall past generations complaining about buying music they like.

Two now. Can choose to stay and not throw a phone on the environment.

How many billions have they kept to themselves?

Consoles are not personal computers owned by almost every single person.

Yup. Yet here we are with some people claiming that they believe 100% what he says.

I find it doubtful that there are actually real customers here who support this. More likely paid actors. The narrative is largely twisted when comparing the comments to domestic news sites' comments sections. Apple doesn't have the attention span for those sites.

Yes. I also think that this is the main reason. It's funny how none of the press material not once mention the word revenue or money, and instead they trash their macOS by making people believe they are moving targets for a hungry internet out there.

They probably offered him a package of AAPLs. I doubt he's still much involved in day-to-day things at Apple, much like Eddy Cue who I think just had enough of it all, especially with being a key witness in the revealed App Store lawsuit communications he had with Steve etc.

 

[darngooddesign]

You cannot expect people to believe you when they don't know you and your motives, while you say things that are contrary to anyone real they talked to about the topic.

I don't actually care if you believe me or not.

You try to twist their opinion that the majority doesn't want this while the majority already gave them the opposite feedback. People here in the EU welcome this, and while this is mainly targeted at developers, this also approaches a core customer request from a company which lies about its true intentions.
The revealed messages between Apple executives laid this bare open.

Please show where I said the majority doesn't want this. The majority probably don't have an opinion on the matter because they haven't really thought about it.

 

[wbeasley]

Let's revisit this in six months and see how many new App Stores there are, how many are using them, what apps are available and how much money (if any) these stores are making...

 

[wbeasley]

Add Kodi to the list of apps that should be a no brainer for iOS, but apparently Apple have decided can't be on the App Store. What's up with that?

so checked their site... Kodi looks like a regular new interface for media consumption... all good ... until you get that it emulates games. Boom. there's you're reason it isnt supported.

iPadOS does have a c64 emulator that's approved.
So devs can work with Apple and get these up...

 

[makitango]

Defending the terms Apple was very clear about with buyers and developers BEFORE you purchased?

The terms don't matter in front of the law. Many things that used to be legal in the past are now illegal.
Many saw this coming and it was announced well ahead.

I pay for Spotify directly. Apple get nothing from me for using it. I'd bet a lot of people do that. Pay on Spotify website. They just want to tell people who discover the app through AppStore to do it that way and avoid paying Apple.

In their good right.

So why should Slack be free?

This was an example about "free"/"get" downloads.

Apple moved to Services because the world went off buying stuff.

Apple moved to services not because the world went off but because their incremental upgrades are easy to see through, and people don't see much value, not to mention the lack of innovation.

Some people still prefer to but Office one off rather than subscribe.
Some would prefer a lot of apps that moved to subscription model offer buy once option. Read the reviews of apps.

"Some" as in "only few devices are affected"?

Consoles not owned by everyone? Geez, what rock are you living under? There arent many households with kids or under 40s that dont have one or two consoles. The market for gaming is how big?

Again, show us some numbers of any console compared to iOS.

I don't actually care if you believe me or not.

Doubtful if you respond to this.

Please show where I said the majority doesn't want this.

Was referring to others here.

Let's revisit this in six months and see how many new App Stores there are, how many are using them, what apps are available and how much money (if any) these stores are making...

Let's revisit this and see if the EU accepts Apple violating the condition of granting access to iOS free of charge.

 

[darngooddesign]

Doubtful if you respond to this.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, which is why I don't care if you believe me or not.

Was referring to others here.

Hard to tell since you replied to me.

 

[wbeasley]

The terms don't matter in front of the law. Many things that used to be legal in the past are now illegal.
Many saw this coming and it was announced well ahead.

In their good right.

This was an example about "free"/"get" downloads.

Apple moved to services not because the world went off but because their incremental upgrades are easy to see through, and people don't see much value, not to mention the lack of innovation.

"Some" as in "only few devices are affected"?

Again, show us some numbers of any console compared to iOS.

Doubtful if you respond to this.

Was referring to others here.

Let's revisit this and see if the EU accepts Apple violating the condition of granting access to iOS free of charge.

Why dont you just get AltStore and install what you want?

Gets your perceived problem solved...
Leaves the rest of us alone...

You have the tools available.

There is no need to legislate anything if you can do this. The most motivated (and you seem to be) surely are up to the task. Surely.

EDIT: So i'll take your thumbs down as you arent up to the task. AltStore actually have some very simple instructions on how to do it it that helps you out.

 

[TonnyM]

Sideloading is another way into the iPhones security. You may never use the door, but the fact that they exist makes things less secure by definition. Someone sooner or later will break through the door.

 

[whatgift]

There are 2 equally valid points to this situation - it is a security/privacy risk, and it lessens revenue for Apple. You can't argue one without the other.

Edit: I'll appreciate alternative app stores if they allow paid upgrades to apps instead of subscriptions, which undoubtedly most users would prefer.