Apple's Plans to Release 5G iPhone in 2020 Could Be Stymied by Intel Delays

[BGPL]

If you talk to someone in the cell business, they'll grip their hair and scream when you talk about phones and 5G. This new bandwidth was designed and allocated with the purpose of furnishing wireless hi-speed communications to businesses and homes.

The millimeter wave bands will also require a significant increase not only in infrastructure bandwidth, but in cell density. Don't count on seeing much in the way of benefit on a phone for years.

 

[I7guy]

Couldn’t disagree more. It’s not an issue. The 5G rollout will be slow and it’s not like LTE is too slow.

Apple took years to bring LTE to iPhone, and 3G==>4G was a lot bigger improvement than 4G to 5. If Apple really think they need it next year, it seems like they would just use Samsung’s chip. But one thing you can be pretty sure of is that Apple won’t be using Qualcomm’s chip—that bridge is burned to the ground.

Hard to tell how this will shake out. Until 5G really brings functionality not available on 4G (or reduced functionality) at an equivalent cost to 4G, it's more about proclaiming "your first", at least imo. Verizon is charging $10 more a month for 5G so at least with Verizon you are paying extra for it.

But you never know if Qualcomm and Apple might shake hands and hug in the future and become frenemies.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

It’s nonsense. Post some real content with some thought or insight.

Nah I’m good.

 

[smorrissey]

So pretty much skip the 2019 iphone releases...(of course if you have money to spare just show them the money).

 

[Lone Deranger]

OOH so edgy.

Thanks!

 

[realtuner]

Qualcomm holds 15% of 5G patents - they're certainly valuable.

Qualcomm has an appreciable lead in 5G. During MWC 2019, only Qualcomm and Huawei showed working 5G chips. Intel, Samsung, and Mediatek didn't show anything and are clearly behind. Samsung is using Qualcomm X50 in the S10. Huawei has no interest selling their chips to anyone and certainly won't help Apple.

Qualcomm is also obligated to license their patents (since they’re part of an essential standard), so it’s irrelevant. Anyone who wants to license them is allowed.

Apple isn’t going to put 5G into an iPhone until 2020, so it doesn’t matter what anyone else has “shown” now. Only what they have available next year.

 

[goobot]

Everything Intel does is delayed.

 

[JPack]

Qualcomm is also obligated to license their patents (since they’re part of an essential standard), so it’s irrelevant. Anyone who wants to license them is allowed.

Apple isn’t going to put 5G into an iPhone until 2020, so it doesn’t matter what anyone else has “shown” now. Only what they have available next year.

Qualcomm's licensing revenue stream is what makes them valuable.

It certainly matters that 5G demos are shown. Otherwise, you end up with a situation like Intel where they don't even have a non-working chip on display. Not to mention Intel, Samsung, and Mediatek are looking for socket wins from as many smartphone manufacturers as possible.

 

[2010mini]

Take your time apple. 5G is still in its baby stage

 

[Mr. Dee]

Unless you are a homeless person riding around on a bus all day will 5G matter to you.

I agree, Apple really should work it out with Qualcomm and try get the best in their flagship devices. Considering that users are keeping their devices longer, you really don't want your customers to start thinking, 'well, I might choose the Samsung or the OnePlus because they have future proof technologies'.

 

[cmaier]

Qualcomm is also obligated to license their patents (since they’re part of an essential standard), so it’s irrelevant. Anyone who wants to license them is allowed.

Apple isn’t going to put 5G into an iPhone until 2020, so it doesn’t matter what anyone else has “shown” now. Only what they have available next year.

Of course in reality they are likely to infringe on non-standards-essential patents as well, and those need not be licensed at FRAND rates.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Stop overreacting to cancelling AirPower.

Apple also doesn’t owe you anything and has better product execution than any company on the planet.

Don’t be so smug. Apple made $60B in profit in 2018. The #2 company made $23B. Apple and company know EXACTLY what they're doing.

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[Ramchi]

For what every is worth, Apple approaches the situation differently by heavily lowering the prices and keep giving refreshes until they get GOOD 5G chip and EXCELLENT WiFi then people won't mind buying their mobiles at least until 2020.

Remember, in 2021 4G mobiles won't fetch lots of resale value.... people planning to buy 4G mobiles in 2019, 2020,2021 will be apprehensive about it

 

[PickUrPoison]

Of course in reality they are likely to infringe on non-standards-essential patents as well, and those need not be licensed at FRAND rates.

It seems like it would be exceedingly difficult to create a non-infringing baseband chip, knowingly or unknowingly. Would I be correct in thinking Apple expects to have to do a certain amount of licensing or design work-arounds post-release?

 

[mikethemartian]

I’m fine without 5G, in real world usage 4G has been fine to me. 5G on the other hand exhibits a much higher radio frequency, and there isn’t much study to prove it is ‘safe’.
5G increases the level of RF radiation in the vicinity of the antenna. And it exceeds the limit of safety among so many countries

I don’t get this fear people have with radio waves. The electromagnetic frequencies that lightbulbs and candles emit in the visible spectrum are about 10,000 higher in frequency than the radio waves used in cellphones. Why aren’t the same people afraid of lightbulbs and candles?

 

[cmaier]

It seems like it would be exceedingly difficult to create a non-infringing baseband chip, knowingly or unknowingly. Would I be correct in thinking Apple expects to have to do a certain amount of licensing or design work-arounds post-release?

Presumably. In the end the strategy is probably to avoid non-FRAND patents they happen to already be aware of. If they infringe FRAND patents they will license them. If they infringe non-FRAND, they will scare away some patent holders because Apple has its own patents, too. Sometimes they will cross-license, sometimes they will be sued and either settle or end up paying a reasonable royalty. Etc.

Cost of doing business.

 

[realtuner]

Presumably. In the end the strategy is probably to avoid non-FRAND patents they happen to already be aware of. If they infringe FRAND patents they will license them. If they infringe non-FRAND, they will scare away some patent holders because Apple has its own patents, too. Sometimes they will cross-license, sometimes they will be sued and either settle or end up paying a reasonable royalty. Etc.

Cost of doing business.

I would think this applies to Samsung, Intel, Huawei and any others who want to make a modem as well.

 

[DblHelix]

Intel is garbage. Their chips in the current iPhone suck compared to the Qualcomm in last gen. It took them how long to have a CDMA chip?

 

[AppleScruff1]

No, it hasn’t.

But many think it has.

 

[realtuner]

Qualcomm's licensing revenue stream is what makes them valuable.

It certainly matters that 5G demos are shown. Otherwise, you end up with a situation like Intel where they don't even have a non-working chip on display. Not to mention Intel, Samsung, and Mediatek are looking for socket wins from as many smartphone manufacturers as possible.

Didn’t you just say that Qualcomm owns 15% of 5G patents? I don’t see how Apple buying Qualcomm for only 15% of 5G makes them so valuable.

Demos only matter if you make the assumption that all companies are willing to tell you their secrets about what they’re currently working on. You have absolutely no idea how far along Intel or Samsung are (or Apple, for that matter, who obviously won’t say a single word about their “modem” until the day it ends up in a shipping device).

 

[EM2013]

Apple needs to kiss and make up with Qualcomm already.

 

[Baymowe335]

Nah I’m good.

Yeah, that’s what I thought. Echo chamber and constant bashing of the most successful company of all time.

 

[cmaier]

I would think this applies to Samsung, Intel, Huawei and any others who want to make a modem as well.

Yep. Of course each has different leverage with respect to their own patent portfolios. It would be hard for Qualcomm to do get much licensing leverage over Intel, for example, when Intel has so many patents that are fundamental to semiconductor processing and circuits. In some ways this is what makes “patent trolls” so scary to businesses - they aren’t afraid of anybody else’s patents. When competitors consider suing each other based on patents they have to consider the inevitable countersuit.
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Didn’t you just say that Qualcomm owns 15% of 5G patents? I don’t see how Apple buying Qualcomm for only 15% of 5G makes them so valuable.

Demos only matter if you make the assumption that all companies are willing to tell you their secrets about what they’re currently working on. You have absolutely no idea how far along Intel or Samsung are (or Apple, for that matter, who obviously won’t say a single word about their “modem” until the day it ends up in a shipping device).

I’m just jumping in here, but Qualcomm does have some VERY fundamental patents (Viterbi encoding stuff) that mean that their 15% might be more valuable than others’ 15%.

 

[AdonisSMU]

Why is intel simply piggybacking off of Qualcomm? Im shocked they havent built their own tech yet in this area.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Presumably. In the end the strategy is probably to avoid non-FRAND patents they happen to already be aware of. If they infringe FRAND patents they will license them. If they infringe non-FRAND, they will scare away some patent holders because Apple has its own patents, too. Sometimes they will cross-license, sometimes they will be sued and either settle or end up paying a reasonable royalty. Etc.

Cost of doing business.

Gotcha, thx. I sure wouldn’t want to play hardball with Apple unless I was very sure of exactly how solid/robust my patent(s) were. Having them invalidated is not a desirable outcome