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I get all sorts of San Diego news stories automatically sent via e-mail.
They're usually pretty in-depth, and seem to include some details that other outlets had left out.

April 4, 2011 (Otay Mesa) - Chula Vista Police Chief David Bejarano has provided an interview with East County Magazine moments after returning from the scene of a fatal shooting at Otay Ranch Town Center shopping mall. He provided chilling details of a brazen robbery attempt that ended with one suspect dead following a hail of bullets and a massive response by law enforcement to seal off and search the neighborhood, apprehending two more suspects.

"The suspects actually pulled up their car right in front of the main entrance to the Apple Store," he said, adding that there were two men in the front seat and a woman in the backseat. Around 6:45 a.m., the two men entered the Apple Store. "They started to grab I-Pads and computer equipment," he said. Although a window was reportedly broken, Chief Bejarano believes the thieves were surprised to learn that the front door was in fact unlocked-and a manager was working inside.

An armed guard hired by Apple was stationed outside and witnessed the robbery in progress as suspects were walking out the door. "The guard is a retired San Diego Sheriff's deputy," said Bejarano, who added, "One suspect pulled out a handgun and pointed it at the guard. The guard pulled his weapon and fired at both suspects."

The two male suspects "went down" but it is unknown whether they were injured at that point, the police chief said. The suspects fled to a parking lot and fired shots as they got into a car. "They had another handgun in the car and there was another exchange of gunfire," Bejarano disclosed.

The driver was shot in the side of his head. Bejarano believes its
likely the injury occurred once the suspects were in the vehicle. "He attempted to drive away, maybe 20-25 yards. The driver hit a light post and some planters, then came to a stop. He died pretty quickly and was found in the car expired."

The other two suspects fled in a southeasterly direction at the intersection of Birch and Eastlake Parkway.

"The good thing is that we were lucky to have units from the graveyard shift and the day shift," Bejarano noted. "We also had 16 units from Border Patrol, same thing, they were going through a shift change. They helped us seal the area immediately and conduct a search of residential units."

A Border Patrol K-9 unit helped locate the suspects, who were hiding in a backyard patio near Morning Dew and San Drive, Bejarano said.
All suspects are adults believed to be in their 20s or 30s. The female suspect was not injured. The male suspect complained of pain and was transported to a hospital, though he had no obvious signs of injuries, Bejarano added.

The brazen robbery was similar to others that have occurred recently in Southern California. "Throughout Los Angeles County there have been a lot of these smash and runs, where they will break glass." He said it's too soon to know whether this crime was part of a series, but added, "With most of these cases, it's not the first one. But it's too early; we're still trying to connect the dots."

A portion of the mall will remain closed for most of today near where the Apple Store is located and where the suspects' car was found, according to Bejarano.
 
Jeeze who are you Hitler? You know theres reasons for crime, it comes from a disproportionate distribution of wealth. Im not saying these people needed to steal to buy medicine for their dying baby but its important to look at what caused the desperation.


You are assuming they were somehow on the brink. But they were not trying to steal bread and milk. They were going after high dollar computer equipment.

You know (well, I guess you don't) that a lot of crime is not committed out of desperation. Most criminals are pathalogical. Just look at recidivism rates. Then look at gang culture, not just street gangs, but organized crime syndicates. These are not desperate people. Sick. Immoral. Anti-social, yes. But it's just a job to them like your job is to you.

Also the entire concept of "disproportate distribution of wealth" is misguided. Accumulated wealth for most people is done via work and skill, not randomness. There is plenty of misery in countries were income is doled out by the government. There is little crime though because there is also no free press in those contries so the gov't rules with an iron hand.
 



123733-otay_ranch_store.jpg


Apple's Otay Ranch retail store
San Diego 6 reports that an attempted holdup at Apple's Otay Ranch retail store in Chula Vista, California went sour this morning, with one of the robbers reportedly having been shot and killed by a mall security guard.NBC San Diego reports that two other suspects, one of whom had also been shot, have been arrested. The incident happened shortly before 7:00 AM this morning, before the store had opened for business.

Article Link: Attempted Apple Store Holdup Goes Bad: Suspect Killed

Well maybe this will be a lesson for others not to just try and steal **** that doesn't belong to them. Especially at a store like the apple store.
 
I'm not taking sides on this, just stating what the article said.

Fair observation. Does raise certain valid questions. Methinks benefit of doubt still goes to the guard.

If the guard is an off-duty cop he has the legal right to stop a fleeing felon with extreme prejudice.
If the guard isn't, I'm still inclined to acquit.
 
You seriously think they threatened to kill a guard at an Apple store because minimum wage or food stamps wasn't enough?

GREED causes most crime. iOS devices have a very high value-to-volume ratio, so they're a target of hardcore criminals.

While I think the guy you responded to has a point (poverty is at the root of a lot of crime), I think you have a point that in this case it most likely was greed. Also, it's not just poverty, but poverty coupled with the feeling that one is helpless to do anything about it. They did a study on a neighborhood that had a lot of crime that was also very poor. INstead of just handing out money or doing things for them (like calling the utilities and getting payment plans worked out that would help them), they instituted a program where they helped the people do this stuff for themselves (They showed them how to call the utility people and discuss this and how to budget their money better). Crime went down way lower than in neighborhoods that they just gave the money out or did things for the people. When people are shown how to empower themselves and do it for themselves, that does a lot for their mentality to help them not feel they have to resort to desperate acts like risking breaking the law.

But, desperate criminals (poverty and drugs type) tend to do more desperate acts (like robbing some one in an alley or trying to take off with random easy to get car in the parking lot). I don't think they are going to be just breaking into an Apple store, carrying guns, and having a plan all set out like that.

Also, you gotta remember some crime is idiot teenagers who think they are cool (was watching bait car and these teens decided to take the bait car and thought they were all cool cause look, they stole a car!). Probably ones who don't have decent parenting (all teenagers feel the need to rebel, not all feel it is cool to steal things as a way of rebelling).

Thing is, crime isn't caused by any one thing. But it can be influenced by a lot of things. And poverty does have a large influence.
 
By the way, people saying he should not have shot him in the head... Well you are right, he should have shot him in the chest... But if you EVER shoot a gun, your only aim is to kill the person.

You should not be shooting a gun without the goal of killing them. That is very basic and fundamental handgun training. It is not a video game, you don't wing a guy or shoot the gun out of your hand. If you reach the point where you need to fire a handgun at someone else than you must try to kill them.

Otherwise you are "Doing it wrong."

Gun rule # 1 All guns are loaded.
Gun rule # 2 Do not pull a gun out unless you fully intend to fire it.
Gun rule # 3 Do not fire a gun unless you intend to kill.
 
Rent-a-cops have guns? And shoot people IN THE HEAD? I'm amazed.

That said, this is pretty ******. Sure, the guy was a criminal lowlife, and he certainly deserved punishment, but I don't think he deserved to get killed. Oh well.

Then perhaps he should have thought about that before he exchanged fire with the mall cop!
 
Rent-a-cops have guns? And shoot people IN THE HEAD? I'm amazed.

That said, this is pretty ******. Sure, the guy was a criminal lowlife, and he certainly deserved punishment, but I don't think he deserved to get killed. Oh well.

Really? Are.. are you serious? Read the story. Over 40 shots were exchanged. This guy was obviously trying to kill the security guard. Why shouldn't the security guard reciprocate?

I guess the guard should have just let himself get shot. Then the robber could have hired the ACLU to sue the guard for the mental anguish associated with being shot at. After all, he was just trying to acquire Apple products so he could fit into society. It's ultimately Apple's fault.
 
I actually only own a shotgun. I keep it at the house. If an intruder were to enter, the sound of cocking it would likely be enough of a deterrent I feel.

Yeah crazy. Try shooting a shotgun in a house or aiming it in a CQ situation. The cocking of your shotgun won't deter an intruder with a 9MM hand gun who can empty his mag on you quicker than you can point and shoot your shotgun.

Show you just how little you actually know about firearms.
 
By the way, people saying he should not have shot him in the head... Well you are right, he should have shot him in the chest... But if you EVER shoot a gun, your only aim is to kill the person.

You should not be shooting a gun without the goal of killing them. That is very basic and fundamental handgun training. It is not a video game, you don't wing a guy or shoot the gun out of your hand. If you reach the point where you need to fire a handgun at someone else than you must try to kill them.

Otherwise you are "Doing it wrong."

This isn't correct. You shoot to stop, not shoot to kill. You don't fire at someone without facing the responsibility that you may kill the person, of course, but your goal is stopping them, not killing them.
 
Fair observation. Does raise certain valid questions. Methinks benefit of doubt still goes to the guard.

If the guard is an off-duty cop he has the legal right to stop a fleeing felon with extreme prejudice.
If the guard isn't, I'm still inclined to acquit.

On or off duty, I think guard has a right to defend himself. I mean, as I said before, if it is a choice between the guard dieing cause he didn't defend himself, and the crook dieing cause the guard did defend himself, I vote the crook. He's the one who forced the situation in the first place (if he didn't shoot at the guard, he wouldn't have caused a decision like that to be have to be made).
 
The good old US of A and their 'superior' gun control... Such an example to the world!
 
Fully automated weapons had to have been used
40 SHOTS FIRED!!!!!

That really isn't much.

3 criminals, one guard. 10 rounds fired per gun. Doesn't take long. Most handguns hold about 15 rounds (normal range 6-20).
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

LimeiBook86 said:
As the story says: "A private armed security guard interrupted the burglars and at some point, gunfire was exchanged with the two male burglars, who were also armed, Facicci said."

The burglars were shooting at him also. So the security guard acting in self defense. It wasn't like they were unarmed and while they ran away he shot them.

The problem I have with many states is that it really shouldnt manner if the criminals where armed or not. By definition they deoarted from acceptable human behavior and thus should be eliminated. Our tolerance of crime is silly and unethical. It is something that must be turned around as societies current posture with respect to crime is not sustainable.

Building more prisons, spending money in "treatment" and then turning around and releasing these sick bastards has had profoundly negative impact on law abiding people. We have to move from a culture of tolerance and at times embracing crime to one where your life spam as a criminal becomes extremely short.
 
You are assuming they were somehow on the brink. But they were not trying to steal bread and milk. They were going after high dollar computer equipment.

You know (well, I guess you don't) that a lot of crime is not committed out of desperation. Most criminals are pathalogical. Just look at recidivism rates. Then look at gang culture, not just street gangs, but organized crime syndicates. These are not desperate people. Sick. Immoral. Anti-social, yes. But it's just a job to them like your job is to you.

Also the entire concept of "disproportate distribution of wealth" is misguided. Accumulated wealth for most people is done via work and skill, not randomness. There is plenty of misery in countries were income is doled out by the government. There is little crime though because there is also no free press in those contries so the gov't rules with an iron hand.

I agree with your first points. Especially since in this case, the items where high dollar. If you were desperate you wouldnt rob an apple store, you would rob a grocery store or convience store.
 
Jeeze who are you Hitler? You know theres reasons for crime, it comes from a disproportionate distribution of wealth. Im not saying these people needed to steal to buy medicine for their dying baby but its important to look at what caused the desperation.

Robbers are typically are trying to obtain a high distribution of wealth thru illegal means.
 
That really isn't much.

3 criminals, one guard. 10 rounds fired per gun. Doesn't take long. Most handguns hold about 15 rounds (normal range 6-20).

Dropping an 8 round clip and the single in the barrel takes NO time at all. The entire exchange could have taken less than 5 minutes.
 
Frankly, nobody in this thread really knows what they are talking about when it comes to the events in the OP, and that includes you and me. You don't know how the firefight played out, or how much training the guard had. At this point it's all pure speculation, and unless you can produce a visual timeline of the incident it is impossible to either criticize or defend the decisions of the guard.

Police are always trained to aim for center mass. Judging from the article, the guard was firing at a fleeing car and the head shot to the driver was not aimed. Aimed shots to the head of a fleeing driver exist only in Hollywood films.
<SNIP>
One of the latest news reports on the mid day news stated the police have all the surveillance Footage. So at least the police will be able to get a good timeline on this. And i will agree we don't know squat about the details.
in time we will learn more.
 
The SD news station article call them burglars :rolleyes: - "A private armed security guard interrupted the burglars and at some point, gunfire was exchanged with the two male burglars..."

Burglary is defined as breaking and entering purposes of committing an offense usually theft.

This was armed robbery as the store was open and people were present.

Thanks apple for having armed security, and protecting the bystanders. It's no surprise the robbers were confident customers were disarmed in state like California. They would have certainly thought twice to pull that off in a Red state.
 
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