AV Artists Complain Monterey 'Orange Dot' Security Feature Makes Macs Unsuitable for Live Performances

[ihaveathought2021]

Never mind the fact that a PC configured correctly would be less costly and perform better for this implementation. The OS API in Windows or any other OS for that matter give you full control of the interface. I've never understood the Artist brainwashing and attraction to the Apple platform. I've worked supporting Macs for 25+ years and the more I support them (30K macs) the less I understand it. Oh well, if everything worked perfectly I wouldn't have a job. ?

Let me help then. Mac: HEVC with alpha channel. PC: nope. Many other examples...

There are certain things built in c++ then incorporated into macOS as easy-to-use native core frameworks in Swift that make niche artistic software possible on macOS that simply isn't possible cost-effectively on Windows. Too many examples to list here.

I say this as a person who owns many computers of both operating systems, too.

 

[ihaveathought2021]

macOS frameworks like AVFoundation, CoreAudio, CoreImage, CoreVideo, CoreGraphics, CoreAnimation, Video ToolBox, Metal Performance Shaders, Accelerate (vector processing), combined with all the specialized circuitry in Apple Silicon like the 1300+ frames-per-second of simultaneous 4K 10-bit HEVC decoding possible on the M1 Pro (and 1500+ fps on M1 Max), combined with the ease-of-use of Swift all combine to make Mac's the absolute best platform upon which to build amazing live visual performance applications the likes of which no one has ever seen before. It's the most exciting time in the history of Mac software development, or really, independent video software development in the history of the world. Apple has shaved YEARS of custom development work off the project timelines of independent video software developers. And, a few people are worried about an orange dot visible on decades-old software? It's just incredible. Merry Christmas all! Cheer up! ! !

 

[Warrington]

What an idiotic reply.

So every professional, in every sector (video, arts, design, engineering, programming, architecture, whatever) should just keep their mouth shut if they discover an issue that affects their ability to use their tools as they and their clients need, just because it doesn't affect anyone outside their sector?

This entire dispute is rooted in the psychology of the individual:

- on one hand, creative people ”(video, arts, design, engineering, programming, architecture, whatever)” are free people, they hate to be controlled by anyone else: government, corporations, their boss, you name it;

- on the other hand, non-creative people are happy to be controlled, that makes them feel safe. This is why they love the orange dot: it's a reminder that they are protected, someone takes care of them.

We know how this kind of disputes ended up in the 1930's and we are going the same direction again.

 

[bgillander]

This entire dispute is rooted in the psychology of the individual:

- on one hand, creative people ”(video, arts, design, engineering, programming, architecture, whatever)” are free people, they hate to be controlled by anyone else: government, corporations, their boss, you name it;

- on the other hand, non-creative people are happy to be controlled, that makes them feel safe. This is why they love the orange dot: it's a reminder that they are protected, someone takes care of them.

We know how this kind of disputes ended up in the 1930's and we are going the same direction again.

Nice to see a Christmas spirit rising here!

I’m becoming of the opinion that the true “first world problem” is a lack of empathy due to an expectation based on that we already get most things we desire. (I’m first world, so please don’t take this as a slam at anyone, as I’m just thinking that I’m on a site covering technology that would have been impossible science fiction when I was a kid, and unimaginable to my grandparents.)

This is the perfect time of year to realize just how boring the world would be if everything worked perfectly and we got everything we wished for without any effort, and that our differences make life interesting. Again, Merry Christmas all, and peace to you!

 

[Warrington]

the true “first world problem” is a lack of empathy due to an expectation

The lack of empathy has nothing to do with first world, second world or third world. Again, it is just the psychology of the individual: the Big Five personality traits explains it.

Like any corporation, Apple tends to be a controlling one. Key people in a corporation are always controlling people, this is where the lack of empathy comes from.

There is no such thing as "everything worked perfectly", but some people really believe that the orange dot should be there no matter what. You should talk to them, not to me. Merry Christmas to you as well!

 

[cubeover]

Apple should intro an option not to show these dots on secondary displays, only on main one where the menu bar is.
I was wrong assuming only menus have it, but I still feel the feature should not be compromised.

 

[DeepIn2U]

If anything, the orange dot is too unobtrusive.

I barely notice it when the the microphone is being used.

That's what I'm thinking.

This complaint I'm not getting it.

 

[Col4bin]

But why?

You obviously are not a creative. Please stop.

 

[Col4bin]

Wow, the amount of hostility in this thread is tangible :-(. I read this thread seeing if someone would explain why this is a big deal? Nobody here, not even the original article explains *why* this is a problem? Folks say its terrible and wrong, and should be changed, but nobody explains *why*? It's like you are expected to just know, and if you don't you are an idiot and several people dislike or reply with abusive comments? I am NOT saying it isn't a problem, I just don't understand why it is a problem. Is this dot part of the video stream, meaning that if you are recording the screen, it shows up on the recorded video too? I would understand why that would be an issue, as it would be similar to your camera capturing interface elements when you take a picture. Nobody wants to see that, and that is problem that everyone should be upset about. If it is just overlaid over the top of the video stream, how is it any different than a camcorder or video camera having a "record" light lit when it is recording? To me, that would be an indicator of a "live" performance.

Have you not read the previous 5 pages of clearly well-written explanation detailing why this is an issue? When you go to the movies, watch television or stream Netflix, would you want a perpetual and obtrusive large orange dot appearing on-screen overlaying the content that you are watching? (Didn’t think so.)

 

[unfunfionn]

I for one am glad that so many people have come to defend this poor, mistreated corporation against criticism of a use case they don’t understand. The MacRumors Forum never fails.

 

[SqB]

I’m a firm iOS anti-sideload, single-source AppStore (Apple’s) believer and even I get why this needs fixed.

Pro tools for pros. This is not AirPlay from an iPad, this is professional production work from a professional device (MacBook) that has been developed for and promoted in this creative space for years. There is no need to defend Apple here. They will fix this as it was an oversight.

The beauty of OSX is that the non-pro users can stay in the safe space of the AppStore and the GUI while pro users can use terminal and elevated access to do what needs doing. It’s the best of all worlds.

 

[fompsweeva]

I for one am glad that so many people have come to defend this poor, mistreated corporation against criticism of a use case they don’t understand. The MacRumors Forum never fails.

Nailed it!

 

[halfway2anywhere]

Just put a piece of tape over it.

Are you familiar with how projectors work? ?

 

[chucker23n1]

This is where you’re wrong. The only thing this orange dot shows up on is the computer that is using an audio input source, either for audio or for linear timecode input for show control. There are media server solutions that use one computer for control and store all media and do all live fx on additional networked computers, using the primary computer merely as a control surface. Software that works that way is totally unaffected by this subtle change. However, software which is designed to be controlled on the same computer that is being used for playout is obviously impacted.

So, to be clear, your suggested workarounds are: don’t run macOS on a computer involved with live video production, or run two separate Macs to avoid the dot.

But, that’s only some software, not all. macOS core frameworks remain the easiest and most exciting assets from which to build really, amazingly cool live visuals software in a teeny tiny fraction of the time as trying to do so on Windows.

Really fail to see the relevance.

 

[ihaveathought2021]

So, to be clear, your suggested workarounds are: don’t run macOS on a computer involved with live video production, or run two separate Macs to avoid the dot.



Really fail to see the relevance.

Not quite. My suggestion is to run 12+ mac's for the event. One M1 Mac mini per output. And a MacBook Pro for the controller. That's what I am doing already.

And the comment about the software that you fail to see the relevance of is that for a meager ~$100,000 development budget and one year of time, I can get (and actually have already gotten...) software that does what I am talking about. But, had I done the project on Windows, it would have cost 3x as much, and wouldn't do nearly as much. And, would have taken longer.

Does that help?

And, actually the software I am using is running on 70+ computers. Not 12......

 

[chucker23n1]

Not quite. My suggestion is to run 12+ mac's for the event. One M1 Mac mini per output. And a MacBook Pro for the controller. That's what I am doing already.

And the comment about the software that you fail to see the relevance of is that for a meager ~$100,000 development budget and one year of time, I can get (and actually have already gotten...) software that does what I am talking about. But, had I done the project on Windows, it would have cost 3x as much, and wouldn't do nearly as much. And, would have taken longer.

Does that help?

Is your suggestion to a wedding DJ that they should contract a $100k piece of software (which will still run into the same problem)?

 

[ihaveathought2021]

Is your suggestion to a wedding DJ that they should contract a $100k piece of software (which will still run into the same problem)?

No. The wedding DJ should use the blanking / masking feature of their $700 projector.

 

[ihaveathought2021]

Is your suggestion to a wedding DJ that they should contract a $100k piece of software (which will still run into the same problem)?

IT WILL NOT RUN INTO THE SAME PROBLEM!

The orange dot only shows up when the microphone or audio input is active..

On a display-only computer, the microphone or audio input is inactive.

Try it.

 

[ihaveathought2021]

Is your suggestion to a wedding DJ that they should contract a $100k piece of software (which will still run into the same problem)?

The wedding DJ has so many options it's not even funny.

(1) blank / mask the projector by a couple of percent on the right side or top

(2) use an inexpensive, used video scaler, like a Gefen DVI to SDI for ~$100 on eBay, then a $45 Blackmagic SDI to HDMI converter to go into the projector. The Gefen can scale and crop an incoming HDMI input effectively.

(3) NDI output from their VJ software to an Apple TV with NDI monitor

(4) given enough time, I am sure I could come up with other ideas as well.

I am a professional video engineer working in the motion picture & tv industry.

This is what we do. We squash problems all day long. I haven't always had generous budgets for things, either. I filmed weddings when I was a teenager.

I know the low-budget world as well as anyone, okay?

Would it be nice if Apple gave pro users the choice of having the orange dot? Yes, of course! I would like that very much! But, having been involved in this line of work for coming up on two and a half decades, and ever since I was 13 years old, I have come to learn that squashing problems is the job. Not whining about problems! ;-)

 

[chucker23n1]

No. The wedding DJ should use the blanking / masking feature of their $700 projector.

Or they could run an OS that doesn’t have this design flaw. Even a Chromebook would work better for them than a $3K MBP, thanks to a dot that shouldn’t be there.

IT WILL NOT RUN INTO THE SAME PROBLEM!

The orange dot only shows up when the microphone or audio input is active..

On a display-only computer, the microphone or audio input is inactive.

Try it.

So your suggestion is, again, to run a second computer, which is absurd.

 

[chucker23n1]

The wedding DJ has so many options it's not even funny.

(1) blank / mask the projector by a couple of percent on the right side or top

(2) use an inexpensive, used video scaler, like a Gefen DVI to SDI for ~$100 on eBay, then a $45 Blackmagic SDI to HDMI converter to go into the projector. The Gefen can scale and crop an incoming HDMI input effectively.

(3) NDI output from their VJ software to an Apple TV with NDI monitor

(4) given enough time, I am sure I could come up with other ideas as well.

(5) don’t use a Mac, which is apparently Apple’s recommendation

Tell us again why the onus is on the DJ to fix a problem Apple created?

 

[fompsweeva]

The wedding DJ has so many options it's not even funny.

(1) blank / mask the projector by a couple of percent on the right side or top

(2) use an inexpensive, used video scaler, like a Gefen DVI to SDI for ~$100 on eBay, then a $45 Blackmagic SDI to HDMI converter to go into the projector. The Gefen can scale and crop an incoming HDMI input effectively.

(3) NDI output from their VJ software to an Apple TV with NDI monitor

(4) given enough time, I am sure I could come up with other ideas as well.

I am a professional video engineer working in the motion picture & tv industry.

This is what we do. We squash problems all day long. I haven't always had generous budgets for things, either. I filmed weddings when I was a teenager.

I know the low-budget world as well as anyone, okay?

Would it be nice if Apple gave pro users the choice of having the orange dot? Yes, of course! I would like that very much! But, having been involved in this line of work for coming up on two and a half decades, and ever since I was 13 years old, I have come to learn that squashing problems is the job. Not whining about problems! ;-)

All of these workarounds because of an orange dot... wow.

 

[ihaveathought2021]

Or they could run an OS that doesn’t have this design flaw. Even a Chromebook would work better for them than a $3K MBP, thanks to a dot that shouldn’t be there.




So your suggestion is, again, to run a second computer, which is absurd.

We use Chromebooks, too. Great for ProtoPie player laptop gags! ChromeOS is an interesting OS for many reasons, not the least of which is support for Android apps. Many other cool things can be done on Chrome OS, too.

What ChromeOS does not offer is a set of (free) frameworks for handling and compositing multiple 10-bit 4K HEVC video files, live HD and 4K NDI video sources, still images with alpha channels, HEVC video files with alpha channels, live color correction, saturation, lens blur, gaussian blur, synchronized playback capability, v-sync refresh rate lock across multiple endpoints, etc. etc. -- all in a $179 computer called an A12 Apple TV 4K.

ChromeOS cannot run on any appropriate hardware for my requirements.

macOS, tvOS, and iOS do, however. PM me if you need more info about any of this. Some of it commercially sensitive. But, please, rest assured, much contemplation goes into software development for things like this. If it were possible or practical to have application software like this on ANY other general purpose computing platform other than Apple, we'd have done that.

But, it just simply wasn't. Apple rolled out the red carpet and we accepted..

 

[ihaveathought2021]

All of these workarounds because of an orange dot... wow.

Yes and no. Trying to run a big media playback operation from a single computer is problematic for many reasons. Mainly limitations in resolution and number of screens as well as having a single point of failure. Even the new M1 Max laptop only supports four 4K outputs. And, even if you're using the nicest Datapath FX4 quad output boxes which take a single 4K HDMI and split it into four 1080p HDMI, you still run into a limitation of 16 HD outputs doing it that way. And, you also run into issues with maintaining a 10-bit video pipeline. Once you move into a single A12 Apple TV or M1 Mac mini per output, you're no longer limited to 16 outputs at only HD resolution. You can have unlimited outputs at full 4K60 10-bit, if you want. You are without limitations. Which is such a great thing to have as a creative artist... Cheers!

 

[ihaveathought2021]

So your suggestion is, again, to run a second computer, which is absurd.

It's not absurd. It's (almost) cheaper. Price out four M1 Mac mini's and a MacBook Air vs the price of a souped-up M1 Max with four 4K HDMI outputs. Live visuals software developers have a great opportunity here to really re-think their architectures now that using multiples is more powerful (and similarly priced) as compared to a single, souped-up computer. IMHO. Especially once you count the cost of 4K HDMI fiber cables or 4K HDBT HDMI extenders vs just using standard ethernet switches to route information between the MacBook Air and the M1 mini's.

And, really, if you do things the smart way, with cross-hardware Swift apps that can work on macOS, tvOS, and iOS, you don't even need M1 mini's. Instead, you can use A12 Apple TVs and accomplish the same thing. For a lot less money.

Still convinced using a single M1 Max MacBook Pro is the best way to do this?

The orange dot is irrelevant, in client-server architecture environments.