Bathroom Remodel Feb 2018

[Huntn]

If I did not already say it, this is the first time I‘ve worked with wall tiles, especially large wall tiles, 14x28”. There seems to be a lot to consider.

First of all where my cabinet butts into the wall, the door clearance is tight, so I’m going to put the tile on that wall first and then butt the cabinet into the tile. Otherwise, if I install the cabinet first snug against the wall, and then install the tile, next to the cabinet, the raised surface of the tile might impinge on the door opening against the wall.

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Secondly, there is the issue of installing a baseboard and the door frame molding where I am using the tile that only goes up chair rail molding high. I don’t really want to be drilling into this tile after it’s on the wall so I can secure the baseboard and door frame molding to it and I question if gluing it to the tile would be enough?

So my plan is to put a 2 inch strip of hardy board at the bottom of the wall, then resting the tile on top. This would allow a space at the bottom where I could nail into the 2 x 4 sill at the bottom of the wall and use a bead of caulk along the top to secure the baseboard molding to the tile without drilling into it.

Because it’s chair rail high tile, and the tile thicker than the drywall it sits on, I also need to run a strip of filler around the door frame so the door frame molding would be level where the tile is and also be level where the tile stops, if you see what I’m saying. And I’m thinking about using hardy board for that purpose. I need to see if you can put nails in the hardy board, I know you can put screws into it. Thoughts?
Thanks!

Update: looks like hardy board can be nailed. http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/...eramic-tile/13664-hardibacker-nails-vs-screws

 

[jeyf]

all good but i dont under stand what you say above, all sounds so none standard

-i dont see whats is wrong aesthetically installing the door and its molding first before the tile. Tile the walls bring the wall tile up to the door molding and fill wood molding wall tile seam with grout. Usually wall tile is 1/2" thick. I would avoid real heavy thick wall tile do to negative effects of gravity.
-please drill the tile if you want, get a butterfly diamond drill. Maybe dont go to homeDepot for the drill. homeDepot sells spline drive heavy duity "GRK" screws with a finishing or flat head. You might like these fasteners for molding of cabinet work.
-it up to you what you want but i would skip wood molding except around the doors. For the floor molding cut 3" strips of the tile you used on the floor and glue to the floor with mastic. It will look nice, again up to you. Rest of the wall use 1/2" tile to reduce weight.
-assume the window(s) installed flush outside house surface leaving an interior dry walled window pocket. consider a trip to a local natural stone vendor and get a scrap of natural stone for the window ledge. shape it 7" deep, (for a 6" drywall window ledge); the debth + 1". Do the width of the window ledge plus have 3/4"" tabs left right. If you dont want to polish the cut edges get a scrap with a rough snapped edge. If you cant get a full shine on the window ledge, get it smooth and put some gloss verithane on it. Rest of the window pocket; left right and top leave dry wall.
-I would tile behind the sink cabinet if its just one cabinet not running the whole bathroom wall. sink cabinets tend not to last long. If you have to replace the cabinet you can depend on the tile back there.
-Consider over head cabinets for bathroom storage and use a pedestal sink(s). Just the sink drain trap, tucked away in a cabinet, gets bumped and starts to leak destroying the cabinet.

have fun; compromise and dont kill your self on the project to have it look not as expected.

 

[Huntn]

Today, I finally got the nerve to tile.

The space is where a sink cabinet will go.
If you are curious, I’m using a 1/3 overlap pattern that runs
to the right, so it will match the opposite wall.​

I’m using a tile leveling system that keeps the tile level with each other to avoid lippage. This tiles weigh 20lb each. I’m using thinset mortar which is concrete, and provides the strongest bond with the wall. Do not use mastic, that comes premixed in a bucket! That can have issues with drying. The difference is that mastic needs air to dry, thinset drys based on a chemical reaction. The disadvantage of thinset is that you have to mix it on the spot with an amount that you can work with in about 30 min. If you leave it in a bucket sealed, unlike mastic, a week later you’d have a block of concrete.

Thinset QuickStart Guide: https://www.askthebuilder.com/thinset-quick-start-guide/

The wall was primed before hand , otherwise drywall would suck the moisture out of the thinset, weakening it’s bond.


I’d like to give a shout out to Harbor Freight. If you have one near you check it out. It’s not the company it once was for inexpensive high quality tools, but for most home projects, you’ll save a bundle. Why spend $10 on a 4 inch paint brush or $7 on a paint mixer (fits in drill) when you can respectfully pay $3 and $4 for these kind of items. I needed an angle grinder to cut switch holes in my tile. I got a Chicago Tool 6 amp model for $30, why pay $80 at Lowe’s or Amazon? They even had a $14 model, but I passed on that one.

all good but i dont under stand what you say above, all sounds so none standard

-i dont see whats is wrong aesthetically installing the door and its molding first before the tile. Tile the walls bring the wall tile up to the door molding and fill wood molding wall tile seam with grout. Usually wall tile is 1/2" thick. I would avoid real heavy thick wall tile do to negative effects of gravity.
-please drill the tile if you want, get a butterfly diamond drill. Maybe dont go to homeDepot for the drill. homeDepot sells spline drive heavy duity "GRK" screws with a finishing or flat head. You might like these fasteners for molding of cabinet work.
-it up to you what you want but i would skip wood molding except around the doors. For the floor molding cut 3" strips of the tile you used on the floor and glue to the floor with mastic. It will look nice, again up to you. Rest of the wall use 1/2" tile to reduce weight.
-assume the window(s) installed flush outside house surface leaving an interior dry walled window pocket. consider a trip to a local natural stone vendor and get a scrap of natural stone for the window ledge. shape it 7" deep, (for a 6" drywall window ledge); the debth + 1". Do the width of the window ledge plus have 3/4"" tabs left right. If you dont want to polish the cut edges get a scrap with a rough snapped edge. If you cant get a full shine on the window ledge, get it smooth and put some gloss verithane on it. Rest of the window pocket; left right and top leave dry wall.
-I would tile behind the sink cabinet if its just one cabinet not running the whole bathroom wall. sink cabinets tend not to last long. If you have to replace the cabinet you can depend on the tile back there.
-Consider over head cabinets for bathroom storage and use a pedestal sink(s). Just the sink drain trap, tucked away in a cabinet, gets bumped and starts to leak destroying the cabinet.

have fun; compromise and dont kill your self on the project to have it look not as expected.

Thanks! I’m not sure why you’d call it none standard. It’s just different. The door moldings were off when the drywall was replaced. So i’ve Run the tiles to 3” to the door frame, and will put 3.5” door frame molding that had been notched out for 1/2” so the molding will fit flush and overlap the edge of the tile. I believe this will look better than butting the tile into the door frame molding. As far as I can tell, it comes down to preference.

My wife wants baseboard molding so I started the tile 3” up from the floor. This will give me a clear shot at nailing to the sill, no need to drill holes in the tile, which with a nail gun, would be hard to hit the hole I drilled. and I’ll run a line of chalk along the top of the molding to glue it to the tile.

We went to a tile remnant place a couple days ago. My wife finally stopped insisting on marble counters for the sinks, as they are susceptible to staining without constant treatment. She wanted something that would pop and distinguish itself from the marble tile. A delicotus granite seemed to fit the bill. The vendor is working up a price.

 

[jeyf]

all good do exactly what you want; none standard & different are still the same.


granite is porous too and will need to be treated.

instead of nailing through the wall tile look at the homeDepot GDK screws with the finishing head. See if you like?

get a moderately cost laser level. homeDepot Bosch GLL50. makes life incrementally easier?

consider a white thin set

 

[Huntn]

all good do exactly what you want; none standard & different are still the same.


granite is porous too and will need to be treated.

instead of nailing through the wall tile look at the homeDepot GDK screws with the finishing head. See if you like?

get a moderately cost laser level. homeDepot Bosch GLL50. makes life incrementally easier?

consider a white thin set

Oops I typed chalk instead caulk.

It depends on the granite. First granite I had, for kitchen counter I was all worried about it staining. The installers wanted to charge me $1000+ to seal it with a warranty. I read online that if you can put a drop of vegetable oil on your granite, ideally a scrap piece for 1 hour, and can wipe it off without a shadow remaining (stain), the granite is basically impervious. That’s how mine is and all I do is clean and polish it whenever I feel like it. When you think about it , no one who spills something like wine on natural stone is going to leave it there.

Grouted that wall this morning. Cabinets placed today. One more sink cabinet needs installing.

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[rhett7660]

Starting to go pretty quick now! Looking good.

 

[Huntn]

I’ve primed the drywall where the tile has been placed. Should I prime the cement board around the tub, before tiling there?

The answer seems to be yes: https://www.todayshomeowner.com/video/tile-tub-or-shower-surround-wall-preparation/

For anyone who has done floor tile, on a concrete floor do you seal the concrete first? A video I watched said this prevents cracks in tile grout? I’ve done floor tile before on concrete, did not seal it, and have no issues with the tile...

Starting to go pretty quick now! Looking good.

Thanks! Replacing the drywall probably doubled the work, if not more, not that I regret doing that. And spackling is not as bad as I remembered it to be. For the inside corners instead of using a corner trowel, it seems easier to tape and then alternate doing one side than the other.

Yesterday, the guys came by to measure to install granite on the counter tops and for the window sills next to the tub. That should go in next week.

 

[jeyf]

... anyone who has done floor tile, on a concrete floor do you seal the concrete first?...

NO
-Ever so likely some of the grout will fail after a year of use so save the box of unused grout and plan to do 40 minuets of maintenance next year.
-Vacuum than mop the exposed concrete floor a few times with tap water. Tape around finished wood work. while the mopped floor is ever so lite damp use a better grade thin set and placer the floor tiles. good and bad there is a HUGE bond between the concrete and the tile. The bad is if you have to change things; the tile will have the death grip for the concrete and will not easily lift up, has a long life span. Bathrooms are typically small, not a lot of tile and the bathroom cabinets, especially with a sink will rot out soon so tile under the cabinets.

have fun.

 

[Huntn]

NO
-Ever so likely some of the grout will fail after a year of use so save the box of unused grout and plan to do 40 minuets of maintenance next year.
-Vacuum than mop the exposed concrete floor a few times with tap water. Tape around finished wood work. while the mopped floor is ever so lite damp use a better grade thin set and placer the floor tiles. good and bad there is a HUGE bond between the concrete and the tile. The bad is if you have to change things; the tile will have the death grip for the concrete and will not easily lift up, has a long life span. Bathrooms are typically small, not a lot of tile and the bathroom cabinets, especially with a sink will rot out soon so tile under the cabinets.

have fun.

Thanks for the advice! Personally I would choose not to tile under cabinets, but I think that is personal preference, yes?

 

[jeyf]

... I think that is personal preference, yes?

for sure; yes

 

[Huntn]

for sure; yes

Have you (or anyone reading) ever worked with mosaic tile before? If so, any tips or gotchas?
I’m putting it next to large format tile like in a previous picture I posted, which is about 1/8” thicker than the mosaic. I assume I just need to put the thinset on a little thicker to make up the difference, and my concern is keeping the two tiles level with each other.

Where the mosaic tile is placed, I’m considering spreading a 1/8” thickness of thinset first and let it dry to to equalize this difference. The large format tile 3/8” thick needs 3/8” thinset. So after the 1/8” coating drys, I’d match the large format tile with another coating of thinset using a 3/8” notched trowel where the mosaic pattern goes.

 

[Huntn]

Ok, it's getting serious now!

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We were going to do this entire tub area with mosaic, my wife's idea, but when we realized the top was so big, we'd only see the ends and the top course, decided to return the extra box as that is $150 a box.

 

[jeyf]

i always had bad luck applying the thin set just a little bit thicker to compensate for tile thickness. either way in your case I hope this is on the floor! Do not know if there is a 1/8" wonderBoard type product

 

[Huntn]

Significant day yesterday, got the granite installed. That is beyond my capability. It offers a nice contrast between that and the marble walls. Granite for two sinks and two window sills installed: $1230.

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Today I ran into an issue cutting the old tub drain with a ratchet style pvc pipe cutter. It would not cut this pipe, but instead, decide to break. That is when I hurt my hand (more about that in the ailment thread). Anyway it’s stuck with a slight cut on the pipe. I can’t get it to release. Because the way theybwork, the ratchet Won’t release until the cut is finished, and then they release... unless there is another way to get them to release. I can’t just rip them off the pipe, because I need this pipe to remain in good shape. So the plan itomorrow is to grind off top part of the pipe cutter, that holds the pvc pipe wile it’s being cut. Not looking forward to that.

The pipe is hard to see, I have plastic bags stuffed in it to keep sewer gases in their place.

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i always had bad luck applying the thin set just a little bit thicker to compensate for tile thickness. either way in your case I hope this is on the floor! Do not know if there is a 1/8" wonderBoard type product

You are right, next time I won’t do that, instead I’ll use a stick of pencil trim between the two different thickness tiles and let them remain at their own levels.

 

[jeyf]

... the plan tomorrow is to grind off top part of the pipe cutter, that holds the pvc pipe wile it’s being cut.

should be easy with a Dremel tool. Oddly enough Harbor Freight is a good choice. Pick up a new pvc pipe cutter while your there.

 

[Huntn]

should be easy with a Dremel tool. Oddly enough Harbor Freight is a good choice. Pick up a new pvc pipe cutter while your there.

To cut the pipe I presume? Thanks for the idea! It’s tight down there And I want to be careful with how much pipe I have left. I’ll check them out.

 

[Huntn]

The tub is in. It was a bear as a solo install. Everything is tight. I only had maybe an inch clearance to play with to get the tub in.

My wife does not like the trim covering the access panel under the faucet. I agree it does not look good. If I had regular rectangle tile it would have been easier to put in a panel and grout around it, but the mosaic pattern is just too busy not to cut through it, at least for me. I wanted a rectangular access panel.

Anyway, I can knock off the side trim pieces. Any thought about a better something non-obtrusive to cover the seam? The less noticible, the better.

​

 

[jeyf]

chances are you will not be using the access panel that much; maybe 5 years out? Loose the trim in the pic. cut some more tile on a good wet saw that fit in the space tight with the same grout line width as the rest of the job. The tile you cut put some tape on it all around its perimeter and place it. The tape will prevent the grout from bonding to the tile. If you need to get in there you know where to tap on the wall to release the tile. If not held in there just by the grout get a tile drill and put a pair 1/8" ss screws in the tile to hold it in there. I would still grout it.

 

[Huntn]

chances are you will not be using the access panel that much; maybe 5 years out? Loose the trim in the pic. cut some more tile on a good wet saw that fit in the space tight with the same grout line width as the rest of the job. The tile you cut put some tape on it all around its perimeter and place it. The tape will prevent the grout from bonding to the tile. If you need to get in there you know where to tap on the wall to release the tile. If not held in there just by the grout get a tile drill and put a pair 1/8" ss screws in the tile to hold it in there. I would still grout it.

This is one part of the project where I definitely could have done it better.

 

[Krayzkat]

I wouldn’t worry too much about the access panel, just have a few spare tiles put aside in case you need access in the future. Removing a tile or two isn’t that hard to do without disturbing the surrounding tiles.

Or other thing to do is use a colour appropriate mastic/silicone type sealer to fill in the gaps. If needing access in future a slim knife will break the seal easily

 

[Huntn]

The tub is in. It was a bear as a solo install. Everything is tight. I only had maybe an inch clearance to play with to get the tub in.

My wife does not like the trim covering the access panel under the faucet. I agree it does not look good. If I had regular rectangle tile it would have been easier to put in a panel and grout around it, but the mosaic pattern is just too busy not to cut through it, at least for me. I wanted a rectangular access panel.

Anyway, I can knock off the side trim pieces. Any thought about a better something non-obtrusive to cover the seam? The less noticible, the better.

View attachment 781367​

This is how I solo installed this tub. It was too big for me to lift up and set in the hole by myself. And the space was so tight it would be hard for two people to get in there to hold the tub and get it aligned.

I used an ITD5135 drain fixture in the floor. It is designed so that the tailpipe attached to the drain of tub can be simply lowered into it. There are rubberized riged edges to insure a tight fit.

The tailpipe is 5” long. I decided the best way to install it was to slide the tailpipe into the drain first. It has both a nut and a rubber washer to attach to the tub. Then I placed the tub, in place, over the drain, propped up by small pieces of 2x4 wood studs. Then reaching under, I slid up the tailpipe to connect it with the tub and tighten it. Then I removed a 2x4 on each end and slowly lowered the tub until it sat on the floor.

However this method, in combination with the tightness of the space, made it difficult to add silicon caulk to the bottom of the tub before placing it, although I placed some prior, after the tub was down, I applied the majority of the silicon, into the small space between the floor and the edges of the tub, by adjusting the feet prior (adjusting the height of the tub).

I used the straw trick to extend the nozzle of the caulk tube, to be able to apply it in the tight space between the tub and the floor, because the edge of the tub rounds inward, and the part that is in actual contact with the floor is recessed an inch or two.

 

[Huntn]

I consider myself in the final stretches of this project.

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Finish wall and floor tile, then wall paper, along with some small misc tasks. I came to a revelation which may be apparent to some, that took me a while to arrive at. It regards cutting tile. For over a decade I've relied on the small inexpensive tile saw like this Ryobi Saw ($ approx 100):

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Which is fine for small tiles say 12x12". But I have learned the hard way, that it's very difficult for large format tile, in my project 14x29". I have hurt my hands, wrists, elbows and arms, trying to shove large tile through this kind of a saw. I reached a point where I was thinking this tile is just too tough, or my saw blade is just not good enough.

The revelation is that the difficulty of cutting large tile on a saw like this is because of the friction the table offers. You are primarily fighting this friction. I tried putting a couple of strips of duct tape on the bottom of the tile to relieve some of this friction, but it was not enough.

A secondary issues: Large format tiles are so large, in many cases the guide rail can't be used on the smaller table and consequently it's difficult to get a square cut, and there is also the issue at the end of the cut, of a small piece of the tile breaking off a corner, which in most cases ruin it.

Yesterday I broke down and purchased this:

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...a $270 Rigid Brand tile saw with a moving tray. The difference between cutting tiles on this table is night and day. The movable tray eliminates the tile/tray surface friction and consequently these tiles cut, I'm tempted to say like butter, but instead they cut easily without any self inflicted wounds. I still have a lot of cutting to do and this will have a large impact on the speed at which that happens.

 

[jeyf]

good for you:
a proper wet saw is totally required. I would have bought a used one but either way put it onto letGo or caraigslist when your done with all your home projects in a year or two.

another benefit is that a wet saw reduces the dust you might inhale. Extend your life.

I have an older house so large size tile is difficult to use since most if not all surfaces are not level in any way

 

[Huntn]

good for you:
a proper wet saw is totally required. I would have bought a used one but either way put it onto letGo or caraigslist when your done with all your home projects in a year or two.

another benefit is that a wet saw reduces the dust you might inhale. Extend your life.

I have an older house so large size tile is difficult to use since most if not all surfaces are not level in any way

The first saw I showed is also a wet saw. It just sprays water all over you when your cutting. And I'll add, it works ok for smaller tile, but the roller table is still much better. With the large format tile, it became a case of being able to make the cuts versus just convienence.

 

[Huntn]

Dec 2018 update- Only 8 months later and I’m just about done with the hard stuff. The tile really added to the work load. I just have a little bit left to grout.

Hanging the glass side panel on the shower was fun. The glass weighed 90 lbs and the people at the glass placed seemed to be miffed I did not hire them to install it for $300. It was not that hard to do, as long as you have someone helping you steady it as it is attached to the brackets. I had to be sure there was wood under the tile where the brackets screwed in.

For the shower hardware, I had to order a valve extender to get it to move out of the wall about a half inch. That is easy to mess up, which I did. It probably won’t be finished till January.

Left to do:

• Cabinet baseboard
• Cabinet crown molding
• Wall paper.
• Light fixtures
• Switch covers
• Hang a cabinet in the toilet stall and wall paper it.

Tile carpet


Just ignore the pile of stuff in the shower.​