Bathroom Remodel Feb 2018

[jeyf]

My house has lead wast water pipes. to interface to this mess i made my own drain trap out of abs 90deg elbows. the black color cement for abs is forgiving so just slop it on and be happy!

recall i am replacing an existing cast iron built in tube with a 1920's 3/4size claw foot i found. The rest of the bathroom remains the same.
-i should have NOT used a sledge hammer to remove the existing built in tub but rather cut it up with a diamond circular saw blade on a grinder. some damage to next door rooms.
-I am using the claw foot tub oem valves, Had the valves tested at a local plumbing store that specializes in the old stuff. I bought new stems and a NEW LONGER hose for the hand held spray head.

last year's adventures led me to buy >40gal of zero white medium priced home depot paint and it held up well. Painting this bathroom zero white hi gloss. Simple. Around the 3/4 size claw foot tub I am putting up 3x5 subway wall tile, again gloss white, with white grout. Not going to put a lot of wall tile, only 4' high and only around the tub. The 60 year old oem wall plaster has held up well and intend to not disturb it. I used 5min plaster to bring my drywall repairs up another ~3/8" level to the oem surface. The new plaster turned out better than expected.

Not looking forward to hailing the claw foot tub back into place for the 2nd time but it should just fit right on. Maybe. I wanted a cast iron tub, like the claw foot idea and a 3/4size fits into the old space w/o too many dry wall changes. I hear a newer tub, say 1950, has asbestos in the enamel. I thought a sledge hammer during removal would generate less dust than a diamond saw. Maybe it did but certainly the sledge hammer method caused damage to adjacent rooms.

 

[Huntn]

My house has lead wast water pipes. to interface to this mess i made my own drain trap out of abs 90deg elbows. the black color cement for abs is forgiving so just slop it on and be happy!

recall i am replacing an existing cast iron built in tube with a 1920's 3/4size claw foot i found. The rest of the bathroom remains the same.
-i should have NOT used a sledge hammer to remove the existing built in tub but rather cut it up with a diamond circular saw blade on a grinder. some damage to next door rooms.
-I am using the claw foot tub oem valves, Had the valves tested at a local plumbing store that specializes in the old stuff. I bought new stems and a NEW LONGER hose for the hand held spray head.

last year's adventures led me to buy >40gal of zero white medium priced home depot paint and it held up well. Painting this bathroom zero white hi gloss. Simple. Around the 3/4 size claw foot tub I am putting up 3x5 subway wall tile, again gloss white, with white grout. Not going to put a lot of wall tile, only 4' high and only around the tub. The 60 year old oem wall plaster has held up well and intend to not disturb it. I used 5min plaster to bring my drywall repairs up another ~3/8" level to the oem surface. The new plaster turned out better than expected.

Not looking forward to hailing the claw foot tub back into place for the 2nd time but it should just fit right on. Maybe. I wanted a cast iron tub, like the claw foot idea and a 3/4size fits into the old space w/o too many dry wall changes. I hear a newer tub, say 1950, has asbestos in the enamel. I thought a sledge hammer during removal would generate less dust than a diamond saw. Maybe it did but certainly the sledge hammer method caused damage to adjacent rooms.

Wear a respirator no matter the method.
[doublepost=1529064886][/doublepost]

say you sell your home in 15years
its rough to see the new owner ripping out all your improvements

When we moved into our house in Texas, the first thing we did was sell the large copper finish fan that said Texas on it, remove all the (Lone) Stars adorning our walls, then remodeled the kitchen which the previous owner had renovated into hill country cabin motif.
[doublepost=1529065889][/doublepost]14Jun- Hung most of the remaining drywall. If not already mentioned, if you are hanging drywall solo, for a high piece, screws piece of wood into the studs to support it while placing. Drywall should be screwed in, but for the initial hanging, use a couple of drywall nails, easier than trying to hold and screw in.

Cutting the foundation for the new tub drain using a Dewalt Rotary Hammer. It’s working, but slow going. I’ve learned don’t lean into a rotary hammer for a tough job because it hinders its hammer action.

The studded area is where the shower goes.

​

 

[jeyf]

When we moved into our house in Texas, the first thing we did was sell the large copper finish fan that said Texas on it, remove all the (Lone) Stars adorning our walls, then remodeled the kitchen which the previous owner had renovated into hill country cabin motif. View attachment 766299

i lived in the foot hills Albuquerque than west Denver. During which time I acquired a country motif. We moved back into the city and was required to hide these items for the new house.


I was going to suggest buying a $20 homeDepot mortar blade to mount on a small grinder but looks like you have >8" of cement to cut through. Looks like you did a better than expected job tho

 

[Huntn]

i lived in the foot hills Albuquerque than west Denver. During which time I acquired a country motif. We moved back into the city and was required to hide these items for the new house.


I was going to suggest buying a $20 homeDepot mortar blade to mount on a small grinder but looks like you have >8" of cement to cut through. Looks like you did a better than expected job tho

It’s not really 8”. That is an illusion, because where they brought the pipes up though the concrete they placed a cone of concrete 8” down, everywhere else, it’s 3-4” thick.

 

[jeyf]

last year I had a 2 house interiors to paint. I bought ~40gal of "Behr Premium Plus Interior Flat Ultra Pure White 1050". "Paint & primer in one".
-the flat white hides wall damage and cracks, small nail holes
-easy to apply
-easy to clean up
-drips dont seem to stick to wood or tile floors... that much
-some what resistant to greasy walls, you still have to clean with TSP
-even tho it is zero white you may only need 2 coats likely not 3

I cleaned the bathroom walls with commercial bleach. Used the flat white as a primer 2 coats and a single coat of Behr latex ultra gloss. This has held up super well in challenged areas.
homeDepot has a paint sale mail in rebate sale every July 4th
the 1050 paint is mid priced paint, so ~$20/gal in a 5 gal bucket. A gallon of paint dosnt cover much.

I have an older 1950's house and used the flat white every where. Fast easy and actually looks SUPER good. The modern Ikea look rocks an older interior



years ago i bought a craigsList "Bosch BullDog X" hammer drill
-there are 3 or 4 size spline drill sizes, one drill size not fitting all
-it has a chisel attachment and this works well
-if I have to drill a floor or wall i drill several 1/2" holes than use the chisel
-process takes longer but possible lower structure damage
-the diamond grinder blade works too but will not completely cut a 4" slab



the interface between the cement patch and your new pipes out a paper or plastic sleve to protect the pipe.

 

[max2]

Very nice.

I wish I knew how to do that.

 

[Huntn]

Question: Should drywall behind cabinets be primed (paint primer), or can it be left bare without long term consequences? I have no idea what those would be. Thanks!

 

[jeyf]

it dosnt matter
if your at that point, complete all the painting and put the cabinets up last. One last thing you have to tape and you will not get any paint on the cabinets.

 

[belvdr]

Question: Should drywall behind cabinets be primed (paint primer), or can it be left bare without long term consequences? I have no idea what those would be. Thanks!

I would at least prime them, but would definitely do as @jeyf suggested and just paint it all. With steam buildup in a bathroom, it's better to have paint on the drywall so you don't get mold or mildew growth on the drywall paper over time.

 

[Huntn]

I would at least prime them, but would definitely do as @jeyf suggested and just paint it all. With steam buildup in a bathroom, it's better to have paint on the drywall so you don't get mold or mildew growth on the drywall paper over time.

Yeah, I agree.

 

[Huntn]

Question 2: How should new drywall be prepared to receive wall tile, other than mastic adhesive on it? Should it be painted with primer before or the mastic goes directly on the paper of the drywall surface? In the immediate vicinity of the tub and shower, I’m using concrete board. This would be other walls in the bathroom.
Thanks!

 

[Tech198]

It has begun!! Bathroom messy state is pre-construction prep.
Link to my 2013 Kitchen remodel: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/kitchen-remodel.1579283/

Before:

View attachment 752679

View attachment 752677

View attachment 752680
​

Day 1: Destroy

View attachment 752678
Testing the waters​

Day 2: Destroy

View attachment 752681
Committed​

That's one serious decorator.

 

[Krayzkat]

Tiling straight onto plasterboard/drywall is perfectly fine. Over in the UK we are supposed to use moisture resistant drywall in bathrooms (it's green coloured rather than grey). I'm not sure what concrete board is so dunno about priming that. End of the day, it wouldn't do any harm if you primed something that didn't actually need primed. When you start tiling use the best wall tile adhesive you can afford, it makes the job a lot easier. Also, don't use those trowels with only tiny notches on them, they should only be used to spread butter on your toast.

 

[Huntn]

Tiling straight onto plasterboard/drywall is perfectly fine. Over in the UK we are supposed to use moisture resistant drywall in bathrooms (it's green coloured rather than grey). I'm not sure what concrete board is so dunno about priming that. End of the day, it wouldn't do any harm if you primed something that didn't actually need primed. When you start tiling use the best wall tile adhesive you can afford, it makes the job a lot easier. Also, don't use those trowels with only tiny notches on them, they should only be used to spread butter on your toast.

My understanding in the States the green, moisture resistant drywall is used specifically in the shower, due to proximity to water. Around the tub I elected to use concrete board which is the same thickness as 1/2” drywall on the short walls below the windows. It is used commonly as an underlayment for floor tile being installed on a wood plywood or chipboard floor. For this application, the tile adhesive goes directly on the concrete board.

Why not trowels with notches? What would you use instead? Thanks!

 

[Krayzkat]

Why not trowels with notches? What would you use instead? Thanks!

Sorry i meant the trowels with the small notches as opposed to larger notches. Basically you want to use a big notch trowel so that the tiles have more 'stuff' sticking to them, especially these days with tiles getting bigger and heavier than in years past. Large notches also mean it's easier to get your tiles all flat and smooth as there is more play/wiggle room because of the increased depth.

 

[Huntn]

Question 3: How to prepare new drywall for wall paper? Should I use a paint primer first followed by an application of liquid wall paper sizer or just the sizer, or just the primer? In other words do both of these things do the same job, or are both needed for wall paper?

Edit: Apparantly the proper term these days for wallpaper sizer is wallpaper primer.

 

[Huntn]

Consolidation of previous questions: I've been going about this piecemeal. I have drywall in my bathroom that will be covered by cabinets, by tile, and by wall paper.

• The drywall directly behind the cabinets need to be sealed against moisture.
• The drywall under the tile needs a skim coat so the tile adhesive can adhere to it. Product yet to be determined.
• The drywall under the wallpaper needs a sealer, ideally a wallpaper primer, but would it benefit from both a sealer like Kilz, plus a wallpaper primer, designed to ease both the application and future removal of the wallpaper?

All of these areas adjoin each other so I'm trying to determine if there is a single product that can be used behind the cabinets and the wallpaper?

I assume a product like Zinsser Bullseye 123 Primer and or a Kilz sealer/primer/stainblock could be used to seal the wall behind the cabinets, but it is a question mark if it would suffice as a wallpaper primer, like a Zinsser product called Shieldz. I assume they are different.

The other question is a oil based sealer is inherently better than a water based product? I try hard to steer clear of oil based products because of the messy cleanup requirements, vs just flushing with water. At the same time, I question if I used a oil based sealer in the wall paper area, and the needed to also use a wallpaper primer, if the oil base primer underneath might cause an application issue for the wallpaper primer?

Lots of questions. The issue that seems to be raising these questions is that I'm working with new drywall versus previously painted drywall. If the wall paper area was painted, I'd apply a wallpaper primer. If the wall behind the cabinets was already painted, I'd just mount the cabinets to the wall and not worry about it.

What's really sad is when I call the manufacturer technical help desk (Kilz) and the person there knows zip about their products and has to put me on hold for 5 minutes while she researches it and can't come back with a definitive answer.

 

[Huntn]

Who has experience hanging heavy wall tile?
Based on discussion here and in the home improvement thread, and now that I’ve gotten this heavy tile out of the box, pieces are 14x28” and feel like 20lb each. Despite assurances from the tile shop that drywall can handle it, I have decided to cut out the drywall I installed, where the tile will go and put in concrete board in it’s place. Yes, more work but I’ll have piece of mind my tile won’t be coming off the walls in 2 years.

Anyway for heavy pieces of tile on the wall, will tile adhesive be strong enough to hold it or should I stick something like finish nails in the wall to support the first row of tiles?
Thanks!

 

[rhett7660]

Question: Should drywall behind cabinets be primed (paint primer), or can it be left bare without long term consequences? I have no idea what those would be. Thanks!

Prime and paint them. We are actually going to do a different color behind our cabinets since the backs are open for the plumbing. Add a splash of color.

But I would prime and paint them.

 

[Huntn]

I talked to my brother yesterday who is a school teacher who teaches the vocational skill of house building to challenged kids. They actually build a house each year and the school sells it. Anyway, he reassured me that with large tiles, the load is a vertical one and that properly prepared dryway should be able to handle it... fingers crossed!

Baseboard or no baseboard over tile? Here’s a question if you are putting tile on the wall in the bathroom, would you put in a tradional baseboard (areas other than the shower and tub) or would you run tile to the floor with no baseboard? There are some caveats with baseboard over tile. Do you actually want to drill through tile already set on the wall to secure the baseboard or just glue it? Most likely I will use baseboard but I will raise the bottom course so the bottom 2x4 is exposed, I’ll place in a piece of thin plywood for a spacer and then put a nail into the bottom of the baseboard and glue the top that overlaps the tile. A nightmare would be cracking a tile already adheared to the wall.

 

[rhett7660]

I talked to my brother yesterday who is a school teacher who teaches the vocational skill of house building to challenged kids. They actually build a house each year and the school sells it. Anyway, he reassured me that with large tiles, the load is a vertical one and that properly prepared dryway should be able to handle it... fingers crossed!

Baseboard or no baseboard over tile? Here’s a question if you are putting tile on the wall in the bathroom, would you put in a tradional baseboard (areas other than the shower and tub) or would you run tile to the floor with no baseboard? There are some caveats with baseboard over tile. Do you actually want to drill through tile already set on the wall to secure the baseboard or just glue it? Most likely I will use baseboard but I will raise the bottom course so the bottom 2x4 is exposed, I’ll place in a piece of thin plywood for a spacer and then put a nail into the bottom of the baseboard and glue the top that overlaps the tile. A nightmare would be cracking a tile already adheared to the wall.

I would think it would depend on how much moisture you are expecting in the bathroom. Is it going to be well ventilated and/or have a good fan that will be able to handle the amount of moisture you might get?

Which tile would you be drilling into? For us, we will have tile going from floor to ceiling just around the fireplace. We will be using PL Premium glue to attach it to the tile in that section only. The rest we will be using nails and lots of water proof caulking. However we do not get a lot of moisture in this bathroom because of the size and ventilation. IF there is a lot of moisture in the air, you can actually rust out the nails used for the baseboards.

For me, I look at how much moisture will be or could be in the room. Just my opinion.

 

[Huntn]

I would think it would depend on how much moisture you are expecting in the bathroom. Is it going to be well ventilated and/or have a good fan that will be able to handle the amount of moisture you might get?

Which tile would you be drilling into? For us, we will have tile going from floor to ceiling just around the fireplace. We will be using PL Premium glue to attach it to the tile in that section only. The rest we will be using nails and lots of water proof caulking. However we do not get a lot of moisture in this bathroom because of the size and ventilation. IF there is a lot of moisture in the air, you can actually rust out the nails used for the baseboards.

For me, I look at how much moisture will be or could be in the room. Just my opinion.

We purchase a relatively expensive bathroom exhaust fan (over $100) that actually moves air (a novel idea ) plus in our climate most of the year we run the AC which also reduces overall humidity in the house.

 

[rhett7660]

We purchase a relatively expensive bathroom exhaust fan (over $100) that actually moves air (a novel idea ) plus in our climate most of the year we run the AC which also reduces overall humidity in the house.

I am sure someone with more experience will jump in, When someone took a long hot shower, was there ever moisture on the walls or floor? This was something we had to combat at our previous house. We ended up installing two ceiling exhaust fans because of this. One over the toilet and one near the shower. We offset them so if you were looking at them from the door way, we had one at the south/east corner and one at the north/west corner. The S/E corner was away from the window, so we could use the window and have the exhaust fan move the air from opposite wall. With this setup, you could have the door and window shut and take a pretty steamy shower and not have to worry about moisture build up on the walls and floor.

Was it overkill. Possibly, but we did not experience any moisture issues which was one of the reasons we tore the bathroom down to the studs. We are starting to see mold and water damage at the base boards (nails starting to rust) and around the tub.

 

[curmudgeonette]

Anyway for heavy pieces of tile on the wall, will tile adhesive be strong enough to hold it or should I stick something like finish nails in the wall to support the first row of tiles?
Thanks!

The 6x6 tile around my tub/shower has a metal mesh behind it. One piece of tile by the floor has fallen off (earthquake zone...) thus exposing the mesh. It looks to be the diamond pattern style with 1" openings. The mesh I presume is nailed/stapled to the supporting material. The mesh then provides plenty of grip for mortar behind the tiles.

 

[jeyf]

clean the tile surface:
use lo velocity paint thinner than some lite dish soap and water.

loose tiles will happen:
you can cut out the old metal mesh with a cheap Harbor Freight dermal tool. I would leave the metal mesh. Dermal clean off some of the old mastic and grout off the fallen tile and the mesh, mostly to make room for the new mastic. Inspect for more loose tile. In a shower it is always the lower 1st 4 feet that suffers water damage. Re attach the loose tile(s) with conspicuous amounts of construction adhesive or just use the standard wall tile mastic. Use care, clean up mastic that escapes into the tile grout line asp. Once the new mastic is solid, over the whole surface with a knife remove loose grout. Re-grout with a matching color.


I would buy a bathroom fan that is exceptionally quite but has a IR motion sensor and turns on automatically. Maybe a remote mounted fan motor.

Avoid natural stone wall tile in a shower, un treated it wicks up the water moisture into the wall. The treatment only lasts a few years and the chemicals are expensive and re-applying likely not possible because the old tile has acquired a permanent soap film on it. It would be nice to buy continuous sheets of lo maintenance glass or porcelain material for a more moisture resistant barrier.

20-30 year old bathroom walls and floors, the 2x4's become rotted out. Millennials are concerned about mold...