Actually, in 2013 Apple effective tax rate was 26% http://www.forbes.com/sites/christo...itable-companies-pay-in-taxes/2/#cb1ba2e6185e
According to HR Block, my effective FED tax rate for 2015 was 13%
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Bernie Sanders Wishes Apple Would Move Some Manufacturing to US and Pay 'Fair Share' of Taxes
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Actually, in 2013 Apple effective tax rate was 26% http://www.forbes.com/sites/christo...itable-companies-pay-in-taxes/2/#cb1ba2e6185e
According to HR Block, my effective FED tax rate for 2015 was 13%
So why is it a "typical LOL"? There is nothing true I didn't say. Oh... let me guess, give you're new member, you just love trolling Anti-Apple spew. Should have known.
ahhhh... "Fair" share...
A nebulous term that changes each day, and who wants to buy votes with other peoples' money.
Since no two people can agree, it's always an argument.
A nebulous term that changes each day, and who wants to buy votes with other peoples' money.
Since no two people can agree, it's always an argument.
I think it's a combination of a bunch of things. For some, it is irresponsibility. For others, it's the fact your average American doesn't make as much money as he used to.
Though generally speaking, we do spend less on welfare now than we did back during the middle of the 20th century.
Not to mention the fact that a flat tax is more painful for low income people. 10% of a low income person's money actually affects their life. 10% of a billionaire's wealth is just taking extra money they don't need to survive and will make back in no time.
Of course there are different clusters of behaviors, but most of people accept risks at the idea of either an immediate benefit, or a future return.
Which would SUCK for my freelance business. I have to spend a LOT of my income on software updates, new computers, etc. etc. Under a flat tax, I wouldn't be able to deduct anything for all those expenses. Talk about discouraging me from being in business!
I assume you are a renter and don't currently enjoy any tax deductions, like for mortgage interest.
I though you should add a "should" in there. These days, I'd say America as a whole, from our people, to our corporations, to our government, primarily look at maximizing short term benefits, with very little regard for the long term. We've become pretty bad at the whole delayed gratification thing, and it's created an economy and mindset that has us always skirting the edge between great prosperity and abject destitution.
What Tim said regarding returning manufacturing to the US was that it won't happen because this country doesn't have the pool of engineers needed. Not assemblers or line workers, engineers.
Designed in Cupertino, Assembled in China skips a step. Apple may lay out the specs in the secret labs in the US, but components like the A9 series of processors and that fancy flash ram stuff they use must be developed by electrical and chemical engineers at companies capable of mass manufacturing them. Those are the good paying jobs at factories that simply don't exist in this country.
Foxconn doesn't manufacture the iPhone or iPad, it assembles them from components built (often) right next door. Assembling an electronic device in this day and age is the equivalent of flipping burgers. It may require a little more reading skill and attention to detail but it's still skilled labor. That's Community College level training that doesn't seem to have a lot of support in the US. Heck, this country can't even produce a truly literate (80% reading at grade level - my criteria) High School graduating class. I know, I was a teacher in the public system.
Recreating the Foxconn model here in the States is flat out impossible. Foxconn employs 200,00 - 300,000 people in corporate cities around China and other countries. They provide on-site housing and food services. Sounds like the military to me.
There are so many things this country (USA) can't do any more that it's stupid. When my city built the new Tacoma Narrows bridge to relieve traffic over the Tacoma Narrows to the Olympic Peninsula, all of the massive steel sections used in the construction were forged in South Korea and shipped over here for assembly under the supervision of Korean engineers because the US had no facility capable of building them. I believe the transport ships and assembly barges were Korean, too. It's a great bridge and provided good paying jobs for US construction workers, especially welders and steel workers, but is not Made in America.
Dale
Designed in Cupertino, Assembled in China skips a step. Apple may lay out the specs in the secret labs in the US, but components like the A9 series of processors and that fancy flash ram stuff they use must be developed by electrical and chemical engineers at companies capable of mass manufacturing them. Those are the good paying jobs at factories that simply don't exist in this country.
Foxconn doesn't manufacture the iPhone or iPad, it assembles them from components built (often) right next door. Assembling an electronic device in this day and age is the equivalent of flipping burgers. It may require a little more reading skill and attention to detail but it's still skilled labor. That's Community College level training that doesn't seem to have a lot of support in the US. Heck, this country can't even produce a truly literate (80% reading at grade level - my criteria) High School graduating class. I know, I was a teacher in the public system.
Recreating the Foxconn model here in the States is flat out impossible. Foxconn employs 200,00 - 300,000 people in corporate cities around China and other countries. They provide on-site housing and food services. Sounds like the military to me.
There are so many things this country (USA) can't do any more that it's stupid. When my city built the new Tacoma Narrows bridge to relieve traffic over the Tacoma Narrows to the Olympic Peninsula, all of the massive steel sections used in the construction were forged in South Korea and shipped over here for assembly under the supervision of Korean engineers because the US had no facility capable of building them. I believe the transport ships and assembly barges were Korean, too. It's a great bridge and provided good paying jobs for US construction workers, especially welders and steel workers, but is not Made in America.
Dale
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People only like it because they want a super simple way to pay taxes compared to now. They don't actually understand how it will hurt them.
We play host to a very large pool of some of the finest techs and engineers in the world. The problem is primarily manufacturing, and how expensive it is here compared to overseas.
The way I see it, no one is ever going to be 100% happy. People want to bash corporations for using legal loopholes, yet they will take a mortgage interest deduction in a minute when they see it gets them a nice chunk back on their taxes. People say companies are evil for trying to avoid taxes, yet don't even consider that it's those evil companies that spend billions on equipment and people every year which is what makes our economy run. Besides, if you can legally not pay a tax, why would you?
The bottom line is, as long as there are taxes, there is something to bitch about and you can see that here. Someone always is getting screwed and someone else always has breaks you can't get. It's the name of the game.
Not picking on you, just using your post to make a point.
I honestly think it is unrealistic to talk about producing something like the iPhone in the USA.
Foxxcon workers number as many as 450,000 people at peak production times. A third of those people live on site. They work 12 hour days, six days a week, for less than an American minimum wage. And they are highly trained.
Where the heck can you find that many Americans with that skill set, willing to work those kind of hours for that kind of wage? And how are you going to put that many Americans in one place?
Foxxcon workers number as many as 450,000 people at peak production times. A third of those people live on site. They work 12 hour days, six days a week, for less than an American minimum wage. And they are highly trained.
Where the heck can you find that many Americans with that skill set, willing to work those kind of hours for that kind of wage? And how are you going to put that many Americans in one place?
Why should Apple pay EU taxes in the US ?
Apple only uses the Ireland facility to avoid European taxes, they (28 EU countries) buy almost as much Apple stuff as the US (same size population roughly). And Ireland is part of the EU, currency, free flow of people (no border controls), free choice of residence for EU citizens.
So Apple agreed to create jobs in Ireland - and the staff is around 2000. Again, if the jobs are created in your backyard, it's good - but if it is another country then it is tax avoidance ? How logical is that !
When taken in moderation. Some risk has to be inherent in the system, it's how things get done. Fortune favors the bold and all that.
But when it become general policy, you end up with a situation that doesn't have enough time or energy to plan ahead because it's spending all its focus bouncing through an escalating series of crisis after crisis.
And what has this left us with? A country that not even 40 years ago lead the world in everything, but is now very quickly falling behind.
Yes if politicians don't call for simplistic solutions when they are not qualified nothing will change right?
This is a problem that continues to widen. As fewer and fewer politicians have any real world experience outside politics they come up with super simplistic demands that seem easy on paper but are ignorant of the more complex issues.
You could probably put all the politicians with the ability and experience to understand running one of the largest companies in the world into a closet. So you get these super ignorant requests on behalf of the citizens on the other hand you have companies paying off politicians to do their biding that don't know any better. Basically modern politicians are unqualified to do huge parts of their jobs.
When the United States was formed the founding fathers and the politicians actually ran businesses and were experienced in various areas. The system doesn't work if every politician is a professional or perfunctory a lawyer. Having an experienced representative is now the exception to the rule. We aren't meant to have career politicians. All these offices should be served by people who have achieved something in the world and then chosen to do a stint of public service. Not the reality where people are politically motivated from essentially being a child and step laddering up higher and higher offices.
(By the way none of this is an endorsement for Trump. He is a self-promoter but he is a shady business person at best and has not proven himself in that area. In fact his numerous failures are disconcerting. So I don't think he is a proper response to my complaints. I have enjoyed Trump as an entertainer for decades but as a business person he is not someone to be praised or emulated and his experiences really give him no foothold. In fact a lot of his tricks are essentially the same ones that have driven the US into a financial hole.)
Evasion? Get real.
Find me one person who fully understands the tax code. Best of luck.
There are a lot of people and organizations that know a good amount about taxes. No single entity knows all of it. Face it! It is a mess!
Maybe that will be the first AI task - task code.
Of course, those taxes would be passed along to customers in the form of higher prices and shareholders in the form of lower dividends. Are those folks cool with that?
To put it as simply as possible, it's because they're a US company, given US taxpaid advantages through subsidizes and tax breaks, and thus are expected to pay US taxes.
Remember, the US doesn't require people to pay 35% of any leftovers after foreign taxes, just the remainder. Ireland's tax rate is around 13%, and Apple pays that. But when they repatriate their profits, they're expected to pay the remaining 22%. Though the fact is, the vast majority of corporations rarely ever even pay that much.
The issue isn't that the government has become more greedy than it has in the past. Marginal corporate tax rates are the lowest they've been since the 30's. It's that we're now supporting a more global economy, while still using a more nation-centric mindset. Corporations don't see themselves as American based anymore. They want to be entirely nationless entities, and this is causing some friction.
In your view, what are a couple of the biggest negative impacts? Or is the impact perspective?