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Better Call Saul (AMC - Potential Spoilers)

pvmacguy said:
I watched Breaking Bad so I am familiar with the character of Saul. But I guess I just wasn't expecting it to go the route it did this early on in the show.
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I totally get what you are saying. The writers are doing a great job of making him likeable. He seems to genuinely want to make a positive change in his life, but we still see times when he's willing to cut corners or use unethical means to accomplish what he wants. It's going to be interesting watching him grow more and more jaded and more willing to justify and rationalize his choices. As a viewer I definitely want to root for him to do well and be rewarded for it even though I know where we are going to end up.
 
The season one finale is coming up, and I've reached a sad conclusion:

Good as Better Call Saul is (compared to the rest of the dreck on TV) - its not now, and likely never going to be, as good as Breaking Bad.

How and why? I think it dies a death of million cuts. The cinematography isn't as good. The soundtrack isn't as good. The characters aren't as good. And the plot is borderline tedious.

Part of the problem with the plot is a lack of a credible bad guy. Howard Hamlin (the slick managing partner from his brother's law firm) might be smarmy and selfish. But he's hardly Gus Fring. He's not Tuco Salamanca. In reality he's about as much of a credible bad guy as Carmen - the assistant principal who asked Walt to take a "leave of absence" was. IOW: A threat to our protagonists career path, but not much else.

I'll keep watching BCS. But I think we need to quit pretending this Emperor is walking around in anything more than a serviceable pair of Dockers and a knit shirt.
 
vrDrew said:
The season one finale is coming up, and I've reached a sad conclusion:

Good as Better Call Saul is (compared to the rest of the dreck on TV) - its not now, and likely never going to be, as good as Breaking Bad.

How and why? I think it dies a death of million cuts. The cinematography isn't as good. The soundtrack isn't as good. The characters aren't as good. And the plot is borderline tedious.

Part of the problem with the plot is a lack of a credible bad guy. Howard Hamlin (the slick managing partner from his brother's law firm) might be smarmy and selfish. But he's hardly Gus Fring. He's not Tuco Salamanca. In reality he's about as much of a credible bad guy as Carmen - the assistant principal who asked Walt to take a "leave of absence" was. IOW: A threat to our protagonists career path, but not much else.

I'll keep watching BCS. But I think we need to quit pretending this Emperor is walking around in anything more than a serviceable pair of Dockers and a knit shirt.
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It could never be as good as Breaking Bad. Nothing is.

Gus Fring will most likely appear in it, maybe even next week.

I think it's taking a different tempo than Breaking Bad which was pretty much panic from the first scene of episode 1. This story of Saul Goodman was always going to be a bit more comedy than serious and that's what has happened. It does also have the anticipation of how Saul became Saul and how Mike met Gus. I think it's worth watching and I'm looking forward to season 2 already.
 
vrDrew said:
The season one finale is coming up, and I've reached a sad conclusion:

Good as Better Call Saul is (compared to the rest of the dreck on TV) - its not now, and likely never going to be, as good as Breaking Bad.

How and why? I think it dies a death of million cuts. The cinematography isn't as good. The soundtrack isn't as good. The characters aren't as good. And the plot is borderline tedious.

Part of the problem with the plot is a lack of a credible bad guy. Howard Hamlin (the slick managing partner from his brother's law firm) might be smarmy and selfish. But he's hardly Gus Fring. He's not Tuco Salamanca. In reality he's about as much of a credible bad guy as Carmen - the assistant principal who asked Walt to take a "leave of absence" was. IOW: A threat to our protagonists career path, but not much else.

I'll keep watching BCS. But I think we need to quit pretending this Emperor is walking around in anything more than a serviceable pair of Dockers and a knit shirt.
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Go back and watch season 1 of Breaking Bad. The divide between the two shows isn't that great. Pretty sure neither Chuck nor Howard are going to matter much in the long run, but they're helpful in establishing the back story.
 
Lol, regarding recent comments- BB turned me off quickly, so far I'd describe BCS as watchable, but not awesome. I like Saul's character 10x better than Walter. TWD is a different kind of show, but it's portrayal of interpersonal relationships, group dynamics, and survival morality is a big hook to keep watching. The recent season final was most enjoyable.
 
malman89 said:
Go back and watch season 1 of Breaking Bad. The divide between the two shows isn't that great..
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I'll certainly concede that BB Season One had some uneven scenes, episodes, and plotlines. But I'm having a great deal of difficulty seeing how Better Call Saul can evolve into something great.

Lets start with the mechanics: One of the things that ultimately made Breaking Bad great was the built-in dynamic tensions between Walt and his co-stars. Walt and Jessie had the father/son partnership. Walt and Skyler had the husband/wife thing. Walt and Hank had the criminal/cop thing. And Walt and Gus were two sides of the criminal mastermind equation.

I'm just not seeing anything like that happening in BCS. It seems like its just going to be Jimmy/Saul versus a not very friendly world, that doesn't really care too much about him. He doesn't seem to have any close allies - and he doesn't even seem to have a credible enemy.

We're nearing the penultimate episode of the first season and what does Jimmy have to fear? Being broke? Not having a very good job or personal life? Jimmy/Saul doesn't have much of anything to lose at this point.

Do you know when Breaking Bad became a great show?

The moment Walt hurled the mercury fulminate crystal on the floor of Tuco's office. Because up till that point, he'd just been a schlub. A talented chemist, maybe. But a chump in every way.

That scene blew away every expectation the viewer had of what was going to happen. It established Walt as not just a guy capable of cooking up some chemicals and a good plan, but a guy bad-ass enough to terrorize a meth gang into submission. And it made you - the viewer - desperate to see how Walt was going to deal with whatever other fixes his meth-cooking got him into.

We just haven't seen that with Saul/Jimmy.
 
vrDrew said:
I'll certainly concede that BB Season One had some uneven scenes, episodes, and plotlines. But I'm having a great deal of difficulty seeing how Better Call Saul can evolve into something great.

Lets start with the mechanics: One of the things that ultimately made Breaking Bad great was the built-in dynamic tensions between Walt and his co-stars. Walt and Jessie had the father/son partnership. Walt and Skyler had the husband/wife thing. Walt and Hank had the criminal/cop thing. And Walt and Gus were two sides of the criminal mastermind equation.

I'm just not seeing anything like that happening in BCS. It seems like its just going to be Jimmy/Saul versus a not very friendly world, that doesn't really care too much about him. He doesn't seem to have any close allies - and he doesn't even seem to have a credible enemy.

We're nearing the penultimate episode of the first season and what does Jimmy have to fear? Being broke? Not having a very good job or personal life? Jimmy/Saul doesn't have much of anything to lose at this point.

Do you know when Breaking Bad became a great show?

The moment Walt hurled the mercury fulminate crystal on the floor of Tuco's office. Because up till that point, he'd just been a schlub. A talented chemist, maybe. But a chump in every way.

That scene blew away every expectation the viewer had of what was going to happen. It established Walt as not just a guy capable of cooking up some chemicals and a good plan, but a guy bad-ass enough to terrorize a meth gang into submission. And it made you - the viewer - desperate to see how Walt was going to deal with whatever other fixes his meth-cooking got him into.

We just haven't seen that with Saul/Jimmy.
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I disagree. Breaking Bad was a great show from the start. The dillema of having to kill or be killed in the first two episodes set up the snowball effect which was the whole point of the show.

Spoiler alert!

What really amazed me about Breaking Bad was in season 4 towards the end when he raced home to get money so he and his family could disappear only to find that Skyler had given the money to Ted. He started laughing. Completely hysterical. But, in the next episode he laughed again when he was trying to convince Jesse that Gus poisoned Brock and then again on the rooftop when Gus was thinking about turning around and walking away from his car. Obviously it involves incredible acting but I can't help but think other shows would have not included the hysteria in other scenes. It really magnified the panic in those episodes. But that's off topic...
 
Spoiler​








Only the season finale left this coming week to watch. Saul betrayed at the hands of his brother was heart breaking, if I can use that description without sounding over dramatic. ;)

I'm rooting for this guy, but know he has a predetermined destiny by way of BB, which I did not watch, but have heard about. I can only hope they go with the parallel universe method of story telling where other outcomes are possible. ;)

I've watched and liked other stories with dark characters such as The Sopranos, and The Americans, but my viewership of this show is based on me liking this character and I've always liked court room dramas or the potential for. ;) For a series, wallowing in misery, without hope is fatiguing. Hope is my hook, and if it is ever extinguished, my Saul days could be numbered.
 
Huntn said:
For a series, wallowing in misery, without hope is fatiguing. Hope is my hook, and if it is ever extinguished, my Saul days could be numbered.
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There's still room for hope, I think. The fact he'll become Saul Goodman, and get mixed up with Walt is an inevitability, but anything that happens after that is still very much up in the air.

Yeah, he's been brought down to managing a Cinnabon in Omaha, but who knows. Maybe in his darkest moment, he'll finally get that break he so desperately deserves.
 
I'm interested in seeing how Mike starts working for Gus...

I also think after we've established Saul's back story, it would be good to see how he is getting on post Breaking Bad.
 
Renzatic said:
I'm hoping they get back to that at some point. It'd be depressing if they run through the entire show without once touching on it, only to end it just a few minutes after it began, with Saul turning off the TV, and heading to bed.
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My guess is that it will a bit like the last season of BB. We'll see bits and pieces of post BB Saul like we saw NH and post-NH Walt.

Will the season finale complete Slipping' Jimmy's transformation to Saul Goodman?

B
 
In what season do you expect them to casually show a glimpse of Walter White in the background of a scene?
 
sk24iam said:
In what season do you expect them to casually show a glimpse of Walter White in the background of a scene?
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Never, actually.

Aaron Paul; Bryan Cranston; and Anna Gunn have all pretty much definitively ruled out appearances in Better Call Saul. Some for artistic reasons, other for practical and scheduling conflicts. And I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.
 
Spoiler Alert
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Better Call Saul hasn't been quite as compelling as Breaking Bad for me. From the first BB episode, the roller coaster was barreling down the track, and I could hardly wait for the ones that followed. With BCS, I haven't experienced the same sense of urgency about seeing what comes next. Also, aside from Mike, I haven't become as invested in any of the secondary characters as I was with, say, Jesse. Howard and Chuck are more annoying than engaging to me, and I haven't made my mind up about Kim yet.

So far, the parts I've enjoyed the most have been the scenes with Mike, especially the one with the crooked cops in Philly and the lead up to the drug deal from last week. I also loved his "you're a criminal" speech to the man who sold the pills to Nacho.

The season finale was a bit disappointing. I thought that too much time was spent on Jimmy's last scamming fling with Marco. But now that Jimmy seems to have made the decision to break bad at the end of the episode, I think that we can look for truly despicable behavior from him in season 2 as he transitions to the shady "I know someone who knows someone" lawyer from BB.
 
I think the biggest problem the show faces is that people will compare it to Breaking Bad out of habit. I don't think that's fair. Jimmy isn't the same type of character Walt was, and the show is going to be considerably different because of that. That doesn't make it a bad show. Far from it. Jimmy and Co. are interesting in their own, considerably more lighthearted way.

I doubt it's going to match the intensity, nor get as dark as BB did. Honestly, I'm kinda glad it's not a rehash of Breaking Bad. That type of story has already been done by Gilligan, and done well. He has no reason to revisit those themes. It's a different story about a bunch of different people doing different things with their lives, and I personally think it's equally as good, albeit for a lot of different reasons.
 
Season One Final Spoiler

Watched the Season 1 Final, what a personal tragedy. He turns down a partnership and says " you know that feeling that made me do the right thing? I'll never let that feeling stop me again (from being a crook)."

God, even though I know he becomes bad, before maybe he becomes good if ever, this IS Breaking Bad all over. :( I like the character and the actor., because he is basically good (the character), he'll still have to win me over next season. :p
 
I really liked the 1st season. I admit part of it was because I loved Breaking Bad and it definitely brought me back..........however, it was a very solid show on its own. I'm hoping season 2 he becomes more "Saul" and less "Jimmy McGill" although I loved his saying last season "If you need a will, call McGill" haha
 
I was underwhelmed with season 1 of BCS. Not so much that I wouldn't keep watching, though.

AMC and HBO have really succumbed to the superiority of FX
 
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