Black Milanese Loop ate my screen :(

[Steven079]

Since it's release if series 0 I'm wearing my Milanese loop. Several years without ANY scratch... Can't see any problem there... On 24th December 2018 I got a new one from my wife and replaced the Milanese loop.

Its my first AW ever, my first milanese loop.. hell, i never wore watches ever in my life.

Couldnt it be that the black milanese only does this damage? you wore black before? or you had silver/gold only?

Couldnt it be that my screen has flaws and is overly-sensitive for damage?

The damage you see on these pictures are from 3 days only, and once again: i did not misuse it, i treated it the same as before with the silicone, and in these 2 months my screen was flawless and scratchless...

 

[Endorphine88]

Aluminum or stainless? I'm only asking because I need to hear success stories of aluminum with black milanese loop so I feel comfortable spending the money...

I've always bought aluminum because I don't like how much heavier the stainless steel feels. Not sure if I'd call it a "success story" though. I just take care of my stuff

 

[44267547]

Its my first AW ever, my first milanese loop.. hell, i never wore watches ever in my life.

Couldnt it be that the black milanese only does this damage? you wore black before? or you had silver/gold only?

Couldnt it be that my screen has flaws and is overly-sensitive for damage?

The damage you see on these pictures are from 3 days only, and once again: i did not misuse it, i treated it the same as before with the silicone, and in these 2 months my screen was flawless and scratchless...

Your display doesn’t have flaws, it’s the space black Milanese band specific to the ‘diamond like carbon coating’ that is scratching your display, believe me, you are not the only member that has experienced the ‘Unknown’ scratching , it’s happened to many others as well.

 

[Steven079]

Your display doesn’t have flaws, it’s the space black Milanese band specific to the ‘diamond like carbon coating’ that is scratching your display, believe me, you are not the only member that has experienced the ‘Unknown’ scratching , it’s happened to many others as well.

That does raise the question why there arent alot of complains about it. Is it that because of not many people use the black Milanese with that horrid DLC coating? When i search on it i do find some info, complains, but its not overwhelming. Is it because the Milanese in general isnt that widely bought (as it is damn expensive)?

The Apple Store employees all shouted that i was the first one EVER to showed this problem. I do get it that they have been trained to downplay any issue that might possibly leads to a precedent but i did not expected that, seeing how damn easy my AW became a mess.

 

[44267547]

That does raise the question why there arent alot of complains about it. .

This was about 30 seconds of searches of complaints/observations reference the DLC scratching: (There are far more threads than this.)

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-watch-series-4-black-ss-back-scratches.2143178/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/space-black-milanese-loop-scratches-watch.2019023/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-s4-sapphire-watch-dozens-of-scratches.2146703/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/does-the-black-milanese-scratch-the-sapphire-crystal.2143761/

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ch-stainless-steel-body-of-the-watch.2139348/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/anyone-managed-to-scratch-a-space-black-aw.2022202/page-3

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/milanese-scuffing-watch-body.1874439/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/so-how-good-is-the-dlc-really.2138131/

https://forums.watchuseek.com/f586/who-has-milanese-loop-4800447.html?amp=1

 

[mario-64]

This is an interesting thread. I thought diamond was the only thing able to scratch the sapphire screen. Glad I stuck with the sport band for my S4

 

[bluespark]

This is an interesting thread. I thought diamond was the only thing able to scratch the sapphire screen. Glad I stuck with the sport band for my S4

The aluminum watch doesn’t have a sapphire screen. That version uses an Ion-X glass screen. It’s much more scratch-prone than sapphire.
[doublepost=1547103477][/doublepost]

I get what you say, and if I knew this on forehand I would never have purchased the Milanese loop!

I don’t have a lot of money to spend. I saved for months to get this series 4 and because of Christmas I received some cash and decided to get for the Milanese loop, actually way above my budget, but I really liked it as it does look really nice!
Anyway, that’s all my personal drama, has nothing to do with this discussion

The issue is that after 2 months using the watch and silicone loop there was not one little scratch or damage to be seen on my screen. It was flawless (also because I reallly took precious care of the watch not to damage it). Then, I bought the Milanese and after 3 days it looks like the way it looks now.

Nobody told me at the apple store that I have to go psycho on the band, ensuring it not to touch the screen.

Nobody told me that there is a DLC coating on the band, that gives instant scratches when it touches the screen, or when the powerful magnet gets a hold of the watch

There is no warning on the Milanese loop package, stating that it scratches the screen upon contact

If I knew all these things I wouldn’t have spent money I could have saved... I would have bought the woven one - as the silicone band is too sweaty and sticky for me as well... now I have a useless Milanese loop ( I not use it anymore and will return it this week ) and I have a damaged screen.

How can I accept this? I can’t and I won’t.

If I look around on the web I can see lore people complaining There’s even a guy in Canada , suffered from the same and sued apple over this.. and won.
[doublepost=1547063240][/doublepost]

Yes. There are scratches there, between the screen and the adapter , I guess it’s from putting on and off the watch by stretching/pulling the band. Can not only be seen but also can be felt with the nail...

I appreciate the way you took my post. Even though I don’t agree with your perspective, I know how hard it stings to have a hard-earned splurge ruined by something unexpected. I hope for your sake that you’re able to find someone at the Apple Store who will help you out.

 

[neutrino23]

I have the original Milanese black band on an S4 space grey aluminum watch. Haven’t seen any scratches. I used that band on a series 3 aluminum watch for almost a year with no problem. I’m not being contrarian, just pointing out a different experience.

 

[KarimLeVallois]

This is an interesting thread. I thought diamond was the only thing able to scratch the sapphire screen. Glad I stuck with the sport band for my S4

The space black milanese has a DLC (diamond like carbon) coating, so pretty close on the hardness scale.

 

[techno-Zen]

You OBVIOUSLY made contact with the band and the screen. That doesn't just happen..

 

[honglong1976]

- i did not fold/wrapped the band around the watch
- i did not put it like that in my pocket
- i did not forcefully, willingly rammed the band on the screen
- i did not misused it in any way..

The band which has a DLC coating has obviously come into contact with the screen. Nothing else would be hard enough to scratch it.

You scratched it inadvertently!

 

[itsmemuffins]

The Apple Watch with the black Milanese loop does not make for a good fidget spinner

 

[iKevinT]

Care to share the link or brands you used for these Milanese knockoffs? I too have bought some generic Amazon brands, WFEAGL and iGK, and they've been great...I don't think they were to "knockoff" any particular style though.

When I go into my Amazon orders the band I bought is no longer available, JAKPAS sold by HLJ Tech for $8.99 in Sept., 2017. That’s true for most knockoff bands I’ve bought on Amazon, they come and go regularly.

 

[Steven079]

So far no clear update on the issue i am having. It should have been made clear today but there is some delay. People from Apple support are now dealing with it and today i had my 3rd telephone conversation about it. In the end, the engineers will decide whether they will call it a "screw you, your own fault" or a "you are right, we do see the milanese loop caused this issue, come and have it fixed" - issue.

It is however nice to know that all the guys i talked with, the Apple Care employees that they do see, based on the pictures i provided that the loop caused the issue and they do agree with my situation. Unfortunately they aren't the ones who are giving the green light on replacement/repair

Still having hope on a positive outcome,.. will surely run to the store upon positive news, throw away that devilish Milanese loop and firmly grasp that soft - non scratching woven/nylon band

 

[SpunZ]

So far no clear update on the issue i am having. It should have been made clear today but there is some delay. People from Apple support are now dealing with it and today i had my 3rd telephone conversation about it. In the end, the engineers will decide whether they will call it a "screw you, your own fault" or a "you are right, we do see the milanese loop caused this issue, come and have it fixed" - issue.

It is however nice to know that all the guys i talked with, the Apple Care employees that they do see, based on the pictures i provided that the loop caused the issue and they do agree with my situation. Unfortunately they aren't the ones who are giving the green light on replacement/repair

Still having hope on a positive outcome,.. will surely run to the store upon positive news, throw away that devilish Milanese loop and firmly grasp that soft - non scratching woven/nylon band

Before you toss that official apple milanese loop in the trash, I would gladly pay shipping for you to send it to me.

 

[Steven079]

Before you toss that official apple milanese loop in the trash, I would gladly pay shipping for you to send it to me.

I have bought it at the start of 2019, i can still return it and get my money back Its truly a pity, as i really like it.. its non-sweaty/sticky, its classy, its elegant,... but it scratches...

I now say that i am interested in the soft black sports loop, but there is still a chance that the silver Milanese loop doesn't scratch the screen due to the lack of the DLC coating which the black Milanese has.. i am however scared now to try, don't want to scratch it again, and on top of that, i am also nor sure if the silver Milanese loop fits nicely on a space gray watch

 

[yui4]

there is still a chance that the silver Milanese loop doesn't scratch the screen due to the lack of the DLC coating which the black Milanese has.. i am however scared now to try, don't want to scratch it again, and on top of that, i am also nor sure if the silver Milanese loop fits nicely on a space gray watch

If Apple replace / repair your watch, I’d just avoid the Milanese altogether if I were you. Plenty of other trouble free straps to buy

 

[44267547]

If Apple replace / repair your watch, I’d just avoid the Milanese altogether if I were you. Plenty of other trouble free straps to buy

Good advice. I like the look of the black stainless Milanese loop, but there is no way I would want that specific band for my watch. Even as cautious as I try to be, it will just take one time for it to scratch the display, and to me, that’s not worth enjoying a band with the risk that it poses. I have plenty of other bands that are far more appealing.

 

[user1234]

I’m curious how this will turn out. There are only two watch bands I like, the black milanese, and the black woven nylon. Only one of those is not discontinued, but it seems like a dangerous option...

 

[Steven079]

Tiny update...

In the afternoon (im in Europe) i had a 4th(!) chat by phone, and again no conclusion from the engineers. In the evening Apple finally called me with some news...

Basically what they said was that they made an exception even though my case is usually classified as 'cosmetic damage' and asked me to make an appointment to deliver the watch at the store. The employee couldn't guarantee repair/replacement but they would inspect and investigate the watch to see if its my or the Milanese loop's screwup.

Luckily the scratches are easily identifiable as the pattern of the band. Also, other longer-stretched scratches are in line with the band so they should agree that it is the band that does it. I can also show that i reported this situation 3 days after purchasing the band by showing the invoice. Too many details that should/could be positive for me i guess

I think its a matter of if the Engineer manager is happy on the day he checks the watch
Nevertheless, itll take some more days as i have to make an appointment first which will be possibly next week only. Funny how you cant just walk in and have it done.. I feel like that its easier to schedule and undergo a surgery than submitting an Apple device for checkup/repair

 

[nepatriot]

Any steel bracelet can scratch a watch crystal.

I've had this happen to a sapphire crystal where the bracelet, with the watch off and the clasp open, was able to come over the top of the watch, allowing for the clasp to strike the crystal. I had the watch in a carry on suit case, and had put it inside a sock to protect it. The scratches were in the AR coating, but nonetheless visible.

These Milanese bracelets are really a loop, so the ends can end up against the crystal when off the wrist, or flop a round and strike the crystal when taking off or putting on. As nice and convenient as they look, I wouldn't wear that style on any watch.

This is what I ordered. This brand has been very popular with dive watch crowd. They are authentic, having been developed by the wife of a French marine diver, and first used on his Doxa. IMHO, from pictures anyway, these seem to totally transform the AW from an androgynous fashion watch into a real men's tool watch.

https://erikasoriginals.com/mn-straps/applewatch.php

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bo66Lr1n6kQ/

 

[mdhaus72]

I get what you say, and if I knew this on forehand I would never have purchased the Milanese loop!

I don’t have a lot of money to spend. I saved for months to get this series 4 and because of Christmas I received some cash and decided to get for the Milanese loop, actually way above my budget, but I really liked it as it does look really nice!
Anyway, that’s all my personal drama, has nothing to do with this discussion

The issue is that after 2 months using the watch and silicone loop there was not one little scratch or damage to be seen on my screen. It was flawless (also because I reallly took precious care of the watch not to damage it). Then, I bought the Milanese and after 3 days it looks like the way it looks now.

Nobody told me at the apple store that I have to go psycho on the band, ensuring it not to touch the screen.

Nobody told me that there is a DLC coating on the band, that gives instant scratches when it touches the screen, or when the powerful magnet gets a hold of the watch

There is no warning on the Milanese loop package, stating that it scratches the screen upon contact

If I knew all these things I wouldn’t have spent money I could have saved... I would have bought the woven one - as the silicone band is too sweaty and sticky for me as well... now I have a useless Milanese loop ( I not use it anymore and will return it this week ) and I have a damaged screen.

How can I accept this? I can’t and I won’t.

If I look around on the web I can see lore people complaining There’s even a guy in Canada , suffered from the same and sued apple over this.. and won.
[doublepost=1547063240][/doublepost]

Yes. There are scratches there, between the screen and the adapter , I guess it’s from putting on and off the watch by stretching/pulling the band. Can not only be seen but also can be felt with the nail...

You're never going to win a lawsuit of that type. If it happened in Canada, it was either due to a difference in laws...or it was a fluke. For starters, you can't prove without a reasonable doubt that the scratches are from the watch band. They could accuse you of scratching the screen in some other way and you can't prove that didn't happen....You don't have a provable case. Secondly, the amount of money you would spend in attorney fees would be far more then simply paying out of pocket to replace the entire screen. The bottom line is that a lawsuit of any kind is a dead-end option.

EDIT: I just saw your update. My post is in regards to other possible inquiries about lawsuit potential.

 

[Steven079]

You're never going to win a lawsuit of that type. If it happened in Canada, it was either due to a difference in laws...or it was a fluke. For starters, you can't prove without a reasonable doubt that the scratches are from the watch band. They could accuse you of scratching the screen in some other way and you can't prove that didn't happen....You don't have a provable case. Secondly, the amount of money you would spend in attorney fees would be far more then simply paying out of pocket to replace the entire screen. The bottom line is that a lawsuit of any kind is a dead-end option.

EDIT: I just saw your update. My post is in regards to other possible inquiries about lawsuit potential.

Fighting Apple is like urinating in the direction where heavy winds come from. Little ant vs giant titanic entity.. Nevertheless it is OK to mention that there have been court cases about the same. i dont want to just turn over and play dead. All these oh-so-sympathetic Apple-people i have spoken to (at least 9 now) haven't seen these kinds of scratches/this kind of damage done by a Milanese loop eeeverrrrr in their entire Apple careers.. One guy even mentioned that he was planning to get one soon for himself, stating the obvious without using words that he is thankful to me that i showed him this as a warning.
Blablabla just goes on....all these employees have been trained very well,.. downplaying issues, de-escalating tactics, making a turd smell nice...

Either way, today i returned the Milanese loop... money back in 2 weeks (ffs, why that long?!)
Also, i returned the Watch, and now its up to the guy who screams " COSMETIC ISSUE " the moment he opens his eyes each day he wakes up... or, maybe he actually sees its indeed the Milanese that screwed 'n chewed up my screen..

2 weeks and ill know...

 

[the future]

You can obviously believe what you want, but I can absolutely believe that this is an unusual case that not many Apple Store employees have yet encountered. First of all, I would guess that there are indeed very few customers that buy the cheaper Aluminium Watch and then accessorize that with a milanese loop because a) that band is made of a very different material and it‘s shinyness doesn‘t really match well with the matte aluminium finish of the cheaper Watch and b) that band costs like 1/3rd of the Watch itself and most of the buyers of the cheaper aluminium Watch wouldn‘t ever consider this band for that reason alone.

You realize that the stainless Watch, the one that the milanese loop was obviously made for, has a much more scratch resistant display, right? Saphire vs Ion-X, this is actually one of the reasons those Watches are more expensive (and more durable). Regardless, it is never a good idea to let a metal watch band (or other metal object) come in contact with a watch (or other computer) display; in this regard you have obviously been a little less careful than necessary. So while it seems kinda wrong to me to put all of the blame on Apple, I do agree that there should be a warning on the packaging of the Space Black Milanese Loop that it may quite easily scratch the Watch display because it is so hard itself. On the other hand, that coating makes the band so durable; just imagine all the complaints if the black coating on this quite expensive band was scratched off easily ... which is exactly what happens with cheap black milanese knock-off bands.

 

[Steven079]

You can obviously believe what you want, but I can absolutely believe that this is an unusual case that not many Apple Store employees have yet encountered. First of all, I would guess that there are indeed very few customers that buy the cheaper Aluminium Watch and then accessorize that with a milanese loop because a) that band is made of a very different material and it‘s shinyness doesn‘t really match well with the matte aluminium finish of the cheaper Watch and b) that band costs like 1/3rd of the Watch itself and most of the buyers of the cheaper aluminium Watch wouldn‘t ever consider this band for that reason alone.

You realize that the stainless Watch, the one that the milanese loop was obviously made for, has a much more scratch resistant display, right? Saphire vs Ion-X, this is actually one of the reasons those Watches are more expensive (and more durable). Regardless, it is never a good idea to let a metal watch band (or other metal object) come in contact with a watch (or other computer) display; in this regard you have obviously been a little less careful than necessary. So while it seems kinda wrong to me to put all of the blame on Apple, I do agree that there should be a warning on the packaging of the Space Black Milanese Loop that it may quite easily scratch the Watch display because it is so hard itself. On the other hand, that coating makes the band so durable; just imagine all the complaints if the black coating on this quite expensive band was scratched off easily ... which is exactly what happens with cheap black milanese knock-off bands.

What if i told you that the SS watch isnt for sale in my country? (neither is the LTE version as this esim service isnt available) It is for sale in neighboring countries, but i didnt felt like traveling trough borders for a watch only. Also,the price they ask for a SS is a bit high for someone like me, already crossing financial limits.
Buying the Milanese was already way out of my budget, 150 for a bloody band(!) but Santa Claus came by and thought I deserved some coins for being a good boy. Used these coins after heavy consideration to buy it (because the Milanese is sexy!)

Anyway, i feel what you are saying, but if Apple sells a product that isnt really compatible with (equally expensive) accessories (such as the Milanese) then they should not sell them, or at least underline the fact that the accessory is possibly very harmful for the product that you use it with.

I still have to admit that i really like the Milanese loop for its looks, how it fits and feels,but its not compatible based on how i used it (which is in a normal, decent and careful way) with my AW and this is not my but Apple's fault and they should reimburse me by at least replace my screen/watch.

I am now dealing with this nonsense for many days, spending time on it that i can spend on more usefull things, i still dont have my Watch back on my wrist and possibly need to wait 2 weeks more while not even being sure if they are willing to fix the issue and might eventually receive the AW back with all these shiny, cute scratches still all over it.

And why? because i shed out another 150 bucks just for an accessory to make my watch look/feel prettier.
Its just wrong!....