Blu-Ray Support at Macworld? Mac Pros Soon?

[Porco]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't HD-DVD region free and Blu-ray isn't (at least in the spec, but they'll turn it on all the discs if they win of course)? To me that is a major plus for HD-DVD, I like importing foreign films and TV series, and until there are multi-region Blu-ray players I'm for the one that doesn't region lock.

Apple should allow for both formats in my view, but I agree that they will probably favour Blu-ray, as Jobs seems paradoxically much more comfortable with DRM and anti-consumer technology for movies than for music, which is a shame.

 

[Amigori]

It's interesting to note, that entire page of glitches is all Blu-Ray authoring issues. There is only one HD-DVD issue and it was for a typographical error on the packaging.

Anyhow, I apologize to everyone for making a mess of the topic. Time to upgrade to AIX 6.1 on the new boxes! Laters.

True enough. I knew there were a few HD-DVD issues that weren't in the list; it only goes back to October. Here's an HD-DVD issue. Seems that the Combo HD-DVD/reg DVD of Harry Potter 4 doesn't like the XBox HD-DVD player. 'Children of Men' also had issues with that player. There's a few other titles that have issues with that Xbox add-on, so it probably has to do with the firmware of the player and not so much the disc itself. Glad to see MS software (HDi) works with their hardware...haha

Back on topic....I'm looking forward to the high capacity of the discs, either format, for data use. Backing-up large databases, my music collection, and seasons of iTMS TV shows on one disc will be more convenient than X DVDs. Although blank media needs to come down in price, which it will eventually. FastMac has Blu-ray burners for Powerbooks, but they are insanely expensive. $1k, no thanks. I could just setup an old box as a NAS with a big HD...meh...

I'm also hoping for high DPI displays. 10.5 has Resolution Independence, link, so hopefully with this hardware refresh, we'll see some higher res displays. Even if they leave the current housing, which looks awesome, but upgrade the panels. Maybe a 15" MBP, next refresh, with a 1920x1200 display.

 

[dlethe]

Specs on the new BD product that Apple will announce

Let me preface this by saying this is an educated guess, and I am not disclosing anything I learned via a non-disclosure agreement ....

One of the manufacturers (Panasonic) announced an ultra-slim 9.5mm BD designed for notebooks a few days ago. They wil show it at the CES show starting on Jan 7th. This is the worlds thinnest BD at 9.5mm high, and surely what Apple was waiting for given their height constraints in the macbook platform.

Here are the specs of what Panasonic will announce, so unless another manufacturer is sandbagging prior to CES, then this is what Apple will offer:

Double speed reading and writing for both write-once BD-R and rewritable BD-RE discs.

R/W on BD-R DL (dual layer/50GB) and BD-RE DL discs and will be compatible with future organic pigment-type BDs.

Compatible with three types of optical discs (BD, DVD, CD). It supports reading and writing on four types of BD media (BD-R, BD-RE, BD-R DL, BD-RE DL) and reading of BD-ROMs. In addition, it is capable of reading and writing on seven types of CD/DVD media (DVD-RAM, DVD-R, +R, DVD-RW, +RW, CD-R, CD-RW) and reading of DVD-ROMs and CD-ROMs. Thus, the new drive provides a DVD Super Multi Drive function plus Blu-ray Disc support. Further, it is capable of 8x writing on DVD-R/+Rs, making the handling of DVDs fast and easy.

Regards, David

 

[CWallace]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't HD-DVD region free and Blu-ray isn't?

Correct. Blu-Ray has three regions:

• A - North America, Central America, South America, Japan, Taiwan, North Korea, South Korea, Hong Kong, and Southeast Asia.
• B - Europe, Greenland, French territories, Middle East, Africa, Australia, and New Zealand.
• C - India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Mainland China, Pakistan, Russia, Central, and South Asia.

I would expect such Region-encoding would be defeated for PC-based players.

 

[hjelmn]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't HD-DVD region free and Blu-ray isn't (at least in the spec, but they'll turn it on all the discs if they win of course)? To me that is a major plus for HD-DVD, I like importing foreign films and TV series, and until there are multi-region Blu-ray players I'm for the one that doesn't region lock.

Apple should allow for both formats in my view, but I agree that they will probably favour Blu-ray, as Jobs seems paradoxically much more comfortable with DRM and anti-consumer technology for movies than for music, which is a shame.

The only movies that are region locked are those that are still in their original theatrical run. Once a movie leaves its original theatrical run the region lock is removed and new discs are pressed. This allows studios who don't have international rights to release a disc in the US before the overseas theatrical run is complete. A good example of this practice is the New-Line release Hairspray (on BD and DVD but not HD DVD).

This practice will not change when BD wins.

 

[monkeytap]

Sick. Sony press releases aren't this vomit-worthy.

begin choking on your own vomit...it may be disgusting but its true.

Back on topic....I'm looking forward to the high capacity of the discs, either format, for data use. Backing-up large databases, my music collection, and seasons of iTMS TV shows on one disc will be more convenient than X DVDs. Although blank media needs to come down in price, which it will eventually. FastMac has Blu-ray burners for Powerbooks, but they are insanely expensive. $1k, no thanks. I could just setup an old box as a NAS with a big HD...meh...

I already got the $500 tray loading blu-ray burner and just mounted it in a external firewire enclosure. its a cheaper, more portable, and swappable solution for what you are talking about. I am looking forward to burning bundles of movies and seasons of shows on a single disc and watch them all on my ps3

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't HD-DVD region free and Blu-ray isn't (at least in the spec, but they'll turn it on all the discs if they win of course)? To me that is a major plus for HD-DVD, I like importing foreign films and TV series, and until there are multi-region Blu-ray players I'm for the one that doesn't region lock.

Apple should allow for both formats in my view, but I agree that they will probably favour Blu-ray, as Jobs seems paradoxically much more comfortable with DRM and anti-consumer technology for movies than for music, which is a shame.

hd-dvd has approved region coding, just haven't used it. IF they win, which IMO they won't, they will surely have to turn it on.

its a simple question really....do you think studios would allow the next generation physical media to be without protection/regulation?

 

[hjelmn]

Let me preface this by saying this is an educated guess, and I am not disclosing anything I learned via a non-disclosure agreement ....

One of the manufacturers (Panasonic) announced an ultra-slim 9.5mm BD designed for notebooks a few days ago. They wil show it at the CES show starting on Jan 7th. This is the worlds thinnest BD at 9.5mm high, and surely what Apple was waiting for given their height constraints in the macbook platform.

Here are the specs of what Panasonic will announce, so unless another manufacturer is sandbagging prior to CES, then this is what Apple will offer:

Double speed reading and writing for both write-once BD-R and rewritable BD-RE discs.

R/W on BD-R DL (dual layer/50GB) and BD-RE DL discs and will be compatible with future organic pigment-type BDs.

Compatible with three types of optical discs (BD, DVD, CD). It supports reading and writing on four types of BD media (BD-R, BD-RE, BD-R DL, BD-RE DL) and reading of BD-ROMs. In addition, it is capable of reading and writing on seven types of CD/DVD media (DVD-RAM, DVD-R, +R, DVD-RW, +RW, CD-R, CD-RW) and reading of DVD-ROMs and CD-ROMs. Thus, the new drive provides a DVD Super Multi Drive function plus Blu-ray Disc support. Further, it is capable of 8x writing on DVD-R/+Rs, making the handling of DVDs fast and easy.

Regards, David

Add to this that Panasonic = Mas hitsu and Mas hitsu (wow, it sensors that name) is one of Apple's primary optical drive suppliers. Apple's other major supplier, Pioneer, is also BD exclusive.

 

[CWallace]

hd-dvd has approved region coding, just haven't used it. IF they win, which IMO they won't, they will surely have to turn it on.

They could do so with future releases, but to do so retroactively (and thus invalidating parts of one's collection) would be grounds for a nice, fat class action lawsuit.

its a simple question really....do you think studios would allow the next generation physical media to be without protection/regulation?

The main reason the Regional Encoding was done was to prevent a DVD in one country from being played in another country where it has yet to be released and/or is still in theaters. Between digital minicams in theaters and P2P file-sharing, folks around the world can see a movie that has only been shown in one theater to date.

So that horse has already left the barn (and the farm, for that matter). All it does now is limit sales of the content, which is counterproductive to the studio's financial goals.

 

[ChrisK018]

As a neutral, whatever helps end the 'format war' is welcome. Maybe Mac Pro's will only be a nudge, but every little bit helps.

 

[Amigori]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't HD-DVD region free and Blu-ray isn't (at least in the spec, but they'll turn it on all the discs if they win of course)? To me that is a major plus for HD-DVD, I like importing foreign films and TV series, and until there are multi-region Blu-ray players I'm for the one that doesn't region lock.

Apple should allow for both formats in my view, but I agree that they will probably favour Blu-ray, as Jobs seems paradoxically much more comfortable with DRM and anti-consumer technology for movies than for music, which is a shame.

Correct. HD-DVD, no region lock. Blu-ray, 3 regions, chart here. So depending on where you live and what you import, you may be ok with Blu-ray; the regions are pretty large, unlike DVD.

Apple is on the Board of Directors for the Blu-ray Disc Association, here. Chances are practically zero that they'd equip Macs with HD-DVD, which is a Microsoft/Toshiba technology.

DRM is available for both formats and has more to do with the content provider than anything else. And it seems that Jobs is pretty Anti-DRM based on his public letters to various companies/industries.

 

[overcast]

Add to this that Panasonic = Mas hitsu and Mas hitsu (wow, it sensors that name) is one of Apple's primary optical drive suppliers. Apple's other major supplier, Pioneer, is also BD exclusive.

Wasn't Pioneer supposed to be releasing a dual format player, the BDR-103?

 

[diamond.g]

The only movies that are region locked are those that are still in their original theatrical run. Once a movie leaves its original theatrical run the region lock is removed and new discs are pressed. This allows studios who don't have international rights to release a disc in the US before the overseas theatrical run is complete. A good example of this practice is the New-Line release Hairspray (on BD and DVD but not HD DVD).

This practice will not change when BD wins.

So you are saying that they re-press BDROMs without RCE? Why is this not widely advertised?

 

[Gibson88]

As a neutral, whatever helps end the 'format war' is welcome. Maybe Mac Pro's will only be a nudge, but every little bit helps.

Yeah i agree, every little helps!

 

[Porco]

The only movies that are region locked are those that are still in their original theatrical run. Once a movie leaves its original theatrical run the region lock is removed and new discs are pressed. This allows studios who don't have international rights to release a disc in the US before the overseas theatrical run is complete. A good example of this practice is the New-Line release Hairspray (on BD and DVD but not HD DVD).

This practice will not change when BD wins.

Do you really believe that? Why are major movie studios still releasing 50+year old films with region locks on DVD if so?

Region Coding is beyond stupid, and in my view the studios should abandon it entirely. They need to move to worldwide release dates for big name movies IMHO.

The main reason the Regional Encoding was done was to prevent a DVD in one country from being played in another country where it has yet to be released and/or is still in theaters. Between digital minicams in theaters and P2P file-sharing, folks around the world can see a movie that has only been shown in one theater to date.

So that horse has already left the barn (and the farm, for that matter). All it does now is limit sales of the content, which is counterproductive to the studio's financial goals.

Totally agree. All it does is punish legitimate consumers and encourage piracy, just like most DRM and other attempts consumer manipulation do.

The insanity of buying a Macbook/Macbook Pro (or any laptop really), a portable machine designed to be used all over the world and finding it equipped with a drive that won't let you change regions more than 5 times has always struck me as particularly stupid.

 

[V.K.]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't HD-DVD region free and Blu-ray isn't (at least in the spec, but they'll turn it on all the discs if they win of course)? To me that is a major plus for HD-DVD,

Same here. I don't much care about the outcome of the whole blu-ray vs HD-DVD thing but the region encoding crap absolutely pisses me off. I've moved twice between north America and Europe and I have an assortment of DVDs from 3 different regions as a result. I strongly resent the fact that I need different drives to play my german, russian and american dvds. The fact that HD-DVD is region free is a major plus for the format in my book.

 

[V.K.]

The only movies that are region locked are those that are still in their original theatrical run. Once a movie leaves its original theatrical run the region lock is removed and new discs are pressed.
This practice will not change when BD wins.

Maybe that's how it's supposed to work and maybe that's what the studio PR departments say but this is not what I found in reality. I have lots of DVDs from different regions and 95% of them were bought well after their theatrical run ended. The only region free DVDs among them are some russian ones and I suspect that this is be due to the fact that they might be pirated. Not a single DVD I bought in germany (I have about 50) is region free.

 

[Amigori]

I already got the $500 tray loading blu-ray burner and just mounted it in a external firewire enclosure. its a cheaper, more portable, and swappable solution for what you are talking about. I am looking forward to burning bundles of movies and seasons of shows on a single disc and watch them all on my ps3

This is more of what I was thinking for my NAS. The PS3 part is about halfway down. I'm hoping to get a PS3 in the next few months. That solution's not without some limitations though. Granted I could probably do the same thing with AppleTV and watch the DRM'd stuff from iTMS, but I don't have one of those either. And there's tools to ditch the FairPlay if I wanted to remove it. There's a few other more technical solutions as well, including one from NullRiver that's rumored to have ps3 support coming. I have thought about an external solution too, they work pretty well.

 

[hjelmn]

Maybe that's how it's supposed to work and maybe that's what the studio PR departments say but this is not what I found in reality. I have lots of DVDs from different regions and 95% of them were bought well after their theatrical run ended. The only region free DVDs among them are some russian ones and I suspect that this is be due to the fact that they might be pirated. Not a single DVD I bought in germany (I have about 50) is region free.

I was not referring to DVDs at all, only BDs. DVDs use a different model (many more regions and more agressive region locking). I have 30 BDs and a total of 5 are region locked. Those 5 were new releases at the time I purchased them thus why they are region locked. Sony insiders have confirmed that they remove region locks from their BDs once the movie is no longer in its theatrical run.

 

[V.K.]

I was not referring to DVDs at all, only BDs. DVDs use a different model (many more regions and more agressive region locking). I have 30 BDs and a total of 5 are region locked. Those 5 were new releases at the time I purchased them thus why they are region locked. Sony insiders have confirmed that they remove region locks from their BDs once the movie is no longer in its theatrical run.

Oh, I see. Sorry. My mistake, I thought you meant DVD regions. Even so I would much prefer there were no regions period (DVD or BD). Otherwise they should devise the region system in such a way that it were possible to unlock region locked disks after the theatrical run of the movies is over.

 

[KindredMAC]

I'm really hoping for a nice redesign of the case to go along with the iPhone and iMac's Black/Glass/Chrome/Al current look.

Would like to see the Cheese Grater front go away for good and possibly shrink the overall size of the case by only 5-10%.

 

[monkeytap]

This is more of what I was thinking for my NAS. The PS3 part is about halfway down. I'm hoping to get a PS3 in the next few months. That solution's not without some limitations though. Granted I could probably do the same thing with AppleTV and watch the DRM'd stuff from iTMS, but I don't have one of those either. And there's tools to ditch the FairPlay if I wanted to remove it. There's a few other more technical solutions as well, including one from NullRiver that's rumored to have ps3 support coming. I have thought about an external solution too, they work pretty well.

what products are you considering from elgato? EyeTV or HDHomeRun? both look pretty interesting, but I don't know exactly what your goals are.

Yeah, Im glad I got an external blu ray burner but im stuck waiting for its potential to be released

 

[madoka]

Monkeytap on 11/14/07:

if anyone claims to know who will win (the format war), they are lying.

Monkeytap today:

THE FORMAT WAR IS OVER

 

[SheriffParker]

Monkeytap on 11/14/07:



Monkeytap today:

owned

The format war is not over yet. HD-DVD will probably die a slow painful death, but its most certainly not over. Unfortunately, I will be dying with it, since I bought a HD-DVD player.

 

[nubero]

The problem I'm starting to see (for Apple at least) is that the new iMacs are starting to look like awfully good alternatives to spending $3000+ for a Mac Pro tower.

The performance gap has been narrowing with new iMac refreshes and updates, while the Mac Pro has been completely stagnant.

I have a Mac Pro and one of the new 20" iMacs, and for most things I do, the speed difference is negligible, really. The Mac Pro can handle concurrent tasks without slowing down as much as the iMac. But in some situations, the iMac actually completes a given job FASTER than the Mac Pro does - when you're only running the one application on both machines.

Unless you spend most of your time in one of a few specialized "pro apps", or you tend to do a lot of background rendering/processing while expecting another app in the foreground to run as though nothing else was happening, the Mac Pro is hard to cost-justify right now. (Sure, I realize it has a bigger memory capacity, much more hard drive expandability, and you can pair it with whatever display(s) you like -- and it has the better video card options to make 3D gaming enjoyable. But ultimately, that amounts to paying a BIG premium for more slots and bays on the motherboard, you know?)

Blu-Ray included in some/all of the new Mac Pros is a good move for the future -- but it's strictly an "incremental change" in the grand scheme of things. The Mac Pro needs a new generation of motherboard/Xeon CPU inside it to be a "worthy upgrade", PLUS get some new video card offerings for the thing!

i for one am forced into buying a macpro since the imacs go these lovely bathroom-mirror displays on them now...
and if you buy an imac and a second screen you just throw money out the window since the difference to the price of a mac pro becomes minimal...

 

[Eidorian]

I tip my hat to overcast for dealing with the format wars.

Monkeytap on 11/14/07:

Monkeytap today:

I believe this thread is OVER for Monkeytap.

Long story short and back on topic...

Who the hell is going to buy an optical drive from Apple as a stock option? Aren't you just going to buy it off of NewEgg and use Apple's drivers?

I got 4 GB of RAM for $80. You all know what Apple is charging.