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Blu-Ray Support at Macworld? Mac Pros Soon?
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There has been a lot of mis-information about the format war going on, but that is really not worth getting into. Lets focus on what Apple is going to do.
(1) We know Apple is on the blu-ray board and has a close relationship with Disney, so a blu-ray mac will happen sooner or later.
(2) Apple's current stance in the format war is to support both since both support h.264.
(3) Apple has already taken the extra time to make sure that HD DVD's authorered in DVD studio pro 4 playback on Toshkba and Xbox 360's HD DVD players.
The only real question to ask is whether or not Apple will continue to support both with some type of hybrid player, of simply give people a choice of burner.
To anyone actually paying attention to the war objectively, neither is winning. HD DVD sells more stand alone, however blu-ray continues to outsell HD DVD by at least a 2:1 margin. Blu-ray is only doing well because of the ps3, so for it to continue, they need to sell more stand alone players (which appears to be happening since the prices have been coming down). Neither has sold anywhere near enough to be considered a "winner" and even Sony's CEO has downplayed the blu-ray "victory."
The fact that Paramount jumped ship really prolonged the war,and Apple really seems to not like Dvd's anymore anyway (based on Jobs attitude at the iMac keynote last year). It really is going to be interesting to see what Apple does. Either way, even with an HD drive in the Mac Pro I don't expect one in the consumer macs anytime soon, especially if Apple releases HD downloads in iTunes.
(1) We know Apple is on the blu-ray board and has a close relationship with Disney, so a blu-ray mac will happen sooner or later.
(2) Apple's current stance in the format war is to support both since both support h.264.
(3) Apple has already taken the extra time to make sure that HD DVD's authorered in DVD studio pro 4 playback on Toshkba and Xbox 360's HD DVD players.
The only real question to ask is whether or not Apple will continue to support both with some type of hybrid player, of simply give people a choice of burner.
To anyone actually paying attention to the war objectively, neither is winning. HD DVD sells more stand alone, however blu-ray continues to outsell HD DVD by at least a 2:1 margin. Blu-ray is only doing well because of the ps3, so for it to continue, they need to sell more stand alone players (which appears to be happening since the prices have been coming down). Neither has sold anywhere near enough to be considered a "winner" and even Sony's CEO has downplayed the blu-ray "victory."
The fact that Paramount jumped ship really prolonged the war,and Apple really seems to not like Dvd's anymore anyway (based on Jobs attitude at the iMac keynote last year). It really is going to be interesting to see what Apple does. Either way, even with an HD drive in the Mac Pro I don't expect one in the consumer macs anytime soon, especially if Apple releases HD downloads in iTunes.
I also trust Michael Bay (director of transformers) more than you, and he has clearly stated that after working with both, Blu-ray is the superior product and provides the highest quality.
BUT, im sure you have more experience them him
You make some valid points, but I still prefer HD-DVD,
Mr. Bay may have reasons to say he prefers Blu-Ray. $$
As far as experience, yes I do have more;
having mixed more than 65 feature films.
I wish I had his money though.
Michael Bay is the last person anyone should be trusting. He changes his mind every 5 minutes on what is the "best". First he was all HD-DVD, then he was all BluRay. Now it's all a big conspiracy, that both formats need to fail, so Microsoft can reign supreme in downloads.You make some valid points, but I still prefer HD-DVD,
Mr. Bay may have reasons to say he prefers Blu-Ray. $$
As far as experience, yes I do have more;
having mixed more than 65 feature films.
I wish I had his money though.
http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9829956-1.html
http://www.michaelbay.com/blog/files/Michael-Bay-HD-DVD.html
http://www.fsdaily.com/Industry/Michael_Bay_HD_DVD_vs_Blu_ray_is_a_Microsoft_conspiracy
You see this is the difference: DVD is an established format that has horrendous (though thankfully comparatively easily defeated) region coding. The HD format war is still in full swing (IMHO) but I personally think as soon as one format 'wins' outright it isn't going to be long at all before you see older titles getting region locked. The theatrical release excuse simply doesn't hold water for all titles, because if that was the only reason for it you'd be able to see that was the case with DVDs, and you can't, because it isn't.
Does anyone here really think Sony in their benevolent kindness is going to NOT apply more region coding if they get to the stage where HD-DVD is dead?
I actually think the current situation with region coding of HD formats is probably the one big plus for the consumer, so long live the format war I say, it shouldn't be long before we can afford a player for both formats. Let them fight over it and keep region coding to a minimum, I think that is actually preferable to one format that's locked to 3 regions.
If I can't get my Japanese Ghibli films in HD because of stupid region coding I'm not going to be happy (the UK and Japan are the same region for DVD but not for Blu-ray. See how nuts this all is?)
hey madoka, are you gonna bring up those attachment rates again? funny, you pretty much stopped posting in that thread once you started down that road. take another look at the thread, it has some good information that you could use, specifically CptGreedle's post.
nice thread by the way...your a great human being im sure.
owned
The format war is not over yet. HD-DVD will probably die a slow painful death, but its most certainly not over. Unfortunately, I will be dying with it, since I bought a HD-DVD player.
listen to yourself....you are right, hd-dvd will probably die a slow painful death and if I am wrong and hd-dvd somehow comes back from near death to win it......only than can you can say I got owned. until than I am just telling you that dominos are falling, and it cannot be stopped.
you, my friend, along with many other macrumor users (abercrombieboy, madoka, more) are the ones who got owned for making an ill advised investment in hd-dvd. sucks to be you. glad i researched before i made a decision, which ultimately was based on disc capacity and apple support (turns out im right)
I keep hearing this theory (and don't necessarily disbelieve it), but I think MS (and Apple for that matter) are severely overestimating many countries' internet infrastructures if they think enough people are going to download HD video in the next 5 years or so to make a physical format redundant. If you don't live in a city, HD online will be impractical and unattractive for many years to come IMHO.
Blu-ray and HD-DVD may well end up being be the last major mass-market physical formats, but that doesn't mean they will fail.
For the record I haven't actually bought into either format yet, but I did get my first Blu-ray disc today (part of a DVD+Blu-ray twin pack from Japan) so I'll probably want a blu-ray player of some kind eventually. I think a lot of people will actually end up buying both, especially if dual-format players happen (isn't there some weird licensing issues about that not supposedly being allowed ... anyone?)
So much FUD, it's incredible.
1. Sony has implemented interactive features with the BD 1.1 profile. HD-DVD no longer has an advantage here.
2. Transformers suffers from inferior sound. While most Blu-Ray movies have uncompressed lossless audio, most HD-DVDs do not because of space/bitrate limitations.
3. The space that Blu-Ray allows for (50 GB as opposed to 30 GB for HD-DVD) means less discs, more content, and better content. Harry Potter on Blu-Ray has all the bonus features in high def, HD-DVD's bonus features are in SD. For longer movies (think LOTR) or TV series, the space issues makes a huge difference.
4. Most encodes are not MPEG-2, but AVC.
There's absolutely no reason to support HD-DVD at this point unless you're a Microsoft shill. It's the better technology, it's selling better, it has more studio support, it has more CE support, it has more retailer support. It's the better format, period.
I hope one of the new mac's has HD support even its not the macbook pro I would love to update my imac with ANY other apple product
1. The bluray specs are constantly changing.
2. Inferior according to who, you? Have you listened to the masters to discern the difference. EVERY review site is absolutely raving about Transformers in both the Video and Audio department. Hidefdigest and DVDTalk both gave it perfect audio scores. Countless professionals have commented on the merits of lossless and uncompressed audio. What makes you the expert? What critical listening hardware do you own, I must know. I would say MOST new discs released all have TrueHD tracks. What about King Kong? They had no problem making a masterful transfer and lossless audio. That is over 3 hours!
3. There are just as many people who could give a **** about extras, seriously, give it a rest. How many times do you watch them, honestly. Does it REALLY matter if it's all on a separate disc?
4. Yes, NOW they are.
1. No they aren't. 1.1 was a recent addition that brings all of the Blu-Ray java features up to spec. HD-DVD has no advantage anymore. All Playstation 3's are BD 1.1 compliant.
2. Inferior according to the disk itself, which does not feature uncompressed lossless sound like its blu-ray counterparts.
3. I don't care if you could give a ***** about extras. Some people do. It's better to have them, than to not have them.
4. They have been for over a year now. It's the studio that is responsible for which one to support. Nearly all releases at this stage are AVC.
I mean, why argue with facts?
Blu-Ray: 50 GB, 54 Mbs
HD-DVD: 30 GB, 36 Mbs
Blu-Ray >>>>>> HD-DVD in terms of tech specs, matches it in terms of features, has more studio support, more CE support, more retailer support, and FAR GREATER SALES than HD-DVD.
Can you explain to me what the point of HD-DVD is, other than a failed, stop-gap format? Why would anyone support it at this point?
Yes, apparently you are "missing something"
qouted from the transformers review at high-defdigest.com:
"Indeed, I had the opportunity to attend a special 'Transformers' media event with Paramount late last week, and the question was asked almost immediately -- why no Dolby TrueHD or uncompressed PCM? The studio's answer was that due to space limitations on the disc, the decision was made to limit the audio to Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 Surround only (here at 1.5mbps). Unfortunately, this confirms the long-held theory that the 30Gb capacity of an HD-30 dual-layer HD DVD disc has forced studios to choose between offering a robust supplements package (as they've done here) and the very best in audio quality."
I am not being naive, I just got done schooling you on your precious 51 GB disc, and you keep trying to justify it yet claiming 30 is plenty and if they needed more they would put it out on the 51 GB disc. alert: you are in need of more schooling: NONE OF THE HD-DVD PLAYERS ON THE MARKET CAN PLAY 4 LAYER DISCS.
once again I need to ask what your argument is, having an extra 10 GB per layer is a bad thing right?
warner movies that are on both formats (need to conform to hd-dvd) are MUCH WORSE than disney titles and other beautiful transfers from studios taking full advantage of blu-rays specs. the differences between the formats are very little indeed on titles being shared.
all of the sub $200 players that MOST consumers picked up during the fire sale were 1080i.
correction: most displays at kmart do not have 1080p inputs. any good tv nowaday does.
i care about quality as well when watching movies. I also care about space when I'm burning data DVDs.
blu-ray is just not as good? what movies are you refering to in the dubbing stage?
I trust myself more than you, and in my experience blu-ray is sometimes noticeably better, and other times the difference is neglible.
I also trust Michael Bay (director of transformers) more than you, and he has clearly stated that after working with both, Blu-ray is the superior product and provides the highest quality.
BUT, im sure you have more experience them him
You do realize that the HD DVD version of Transformers was rated as one of the best sounding soundtracks of the year. I own the HD DVD version of Transformers and it has outstanding video and audio quality. Lossy soundtracks using Dolby Digital Plus will sound as good as lossless True HD soundtracks if they are properly encoded and Transformers is the proof of that. The only people that might be able to hear a slight difference is people with high end $$$ audio equipment.
I will continue to support Toshiba and HD DVD as long as it is available. If it doesn't win the war I will buy a Blu-ray player once prices go under $200 for full profile 2.0 and web support. I love the idea of backwards compatible HD DVD's that I can play on my HD DVD player and also play on my standard drive in my laptop. If the dual format triple layer makes an appearance it will be the best because it can play in any DVD or HD DVD drive. Even the flipper disks are fine for now. What is your solution for people that want both hidef and standard versions? Buy 2 disks??? You might have that kind of money, but most people don't.
As far as data is concerned it would be nice to be able to back up 50GB on a disk, but how slow is the burn time going to be? How expensive is the blank BR-R disks going to be? I just bought a 250GB Seagate external HDD for $50 that is much faster and can be moved and plugged into any computer. It seems like that is the best way for most people to go.
Last, I am very fearful for the consumer once Sony gets their hands on the entire distribution channel from the studio to the consumers home. They would love nothing more then to buy more studios and have total control. This only means more region coding, more DRM, and higher prices. Last I have seen NO effort made to make affordable fully compliant, upgradable Blu-ray players. Sony expects everyone to buy a PS3 to get a decent Blu-ray player. I have no use for a PS3 as millions of other people don't. I already own the #1 gaming console which is the Wii and I am not a hardcore gamer. If I was a hardcore gamer I would buy an xBox 360 because it has a lot more gaming titles available then the PS3.
If the price comes down and the format finally gets finalized then I might be interested. Sony is concerned most about their bottom line and I can promise if Warner did go Blu-ray only, you can forget about prices coming down for a long time. Sony will squeeze the consumer for every penny.
As far as burning Blu-rays for data I am much happier with an external HDD right now. I can use it on any computer and it is much faster.
I'm not a videophile.. but I do know that when I'm doing music, or dubs on a project.. I prefer HD-DVD over Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray just looks 'compressed' for some reason. Kinda like compressing the heck out of a mix just to make it 'louder' but not better in quality.
Regarding everyone's complaints here about cost of blu-ray media, etc.. Yes, there are professionals who actually could use the space (and the portability of a 50 gb disc) They *can* afford that kind of media cost, because it's their job. It's a little amusing to see kids who download movies all day on limewire complain about the cost of media ("Hey, i download movies for free! i don't wanna pay so much for writing them on discs!")
Regarding everyone's complaints here about cost of blu-ray media, etc.. Yes, there are professionals who actually could use the space (and the portability of a 50 gb disc) They *can* afford that kind of media cost, because it's their job. It's a little amusing to see kids who download movies all day on limewire complain about the cost of media
("Hey, i download movies for free! i don't wanna pay so much for writing them on discs!")WHY would you support an inferior format? It makes no sense. Have you heard an uncompressed lossless track and compared it to its lossy counterpart? It sounds significantly better.
Toshiba is taking a HUGE loss on their HD-DVD players in order to prop it up since it's a failing format. No CE manufacturer is going to jump on board. Don't kid yourself by thinking Toshiba isn't after their bottom line any less than Sony is. Sony is taking a huge loss on PS3 hardware right now, and so is Toshiba with their HD-DVD players. Toshiba has to cut more because, frankly, HD-DVD is dying right now. It's a dinosaur at retail.
The only thing you've proven is that you're a poor and care more about a subpar, cheap entrance point (how much did you pay for your player? what player is it?) than quality and future feasibility.
PS3 is only 399, if that's too much, then wow. Do you even own an HDTV?
So you're saying PCs are better than Macs.. because of far greater sales of PCs?
Apples and oranges. One is a standard format, the other is highly customizable and entirely dependent on separate OS's.
Apparently you can't figure out that distinction.
I HAVE compared the difference, EVERY HD-DVD I own I compare the TrueHD track to it's DD+ and even the Dolby Digital track. There is a massive leap from DD to DD+ and barely if anything more than placebo from DD+ to TrueHD. HAVE YOU?
Yes I have, and it's a gigantic leap.
I got rid of my HD-DVD player because I was fed up with the subpar releases, inferior bit rate and sound.
Looks like I made the right move, too, because HD-DVD is looking like BetaMax right now at retail.
So tell me, what was the title that had an astounding difference between Bluray and HD-DVD between audio formats. I want specifics.
As I've intimated, HD-DVD seems to be less disposed towards region coding. If my favourite foreign films end up being available on HD-DVD from wherever and will play in my machine, but the blu-ray discs are region locked and don't play on my machine, it doesn't matter one iota if Blu-ray is 100 times better than HD-DVD technically. Just like it didn't matter that Betamax was better than VHS when all the rental stores had tonnes more VHS titles.
But that's just me saying why would anyone (me) support it, not a reason why HD-DVD will win or anything (I think Blu-ray probably will eventually)!
How do you know I am poor? Talk about a personal slam. Yes, I am a teacher and a National Guard Officer so I am not loaded, but I have enough money to live comfortably. I am a value minded consumer. HD DVD does the exact same thing for less money. When I bought an HDTV I bought a Vizio. Why? Because it offered the most for the money. When I bought my Toshiba HD-A3 for $169 it also offered the best value for the money. I went with a 720p/1080i player because my 42" Vizio is also 720p/1080i. I have read many articles that say under 50" 1080p is not noticeable. As far as sound goes I have a Harman/Kardon AVR247 HDMI receiver and a Bose Acoustimass 16 speaker system.
Now I am sure with all of your wealth this is not a system that you would have in your house, however for me it provides many hours of great enjoyment.
Last, yes I do trust the DVD forum and Toshiba to work for lower prices for the consumer. I do not trust Sony. Sony has never been concerned with the consumer. Like I said, they only want total control from the studio to the end users home. That is my opinion, nothing more, but that is how I feel.
Yes the PS3 is a great BD player, what about every other standalone unit? You do realize that there is the BD-Live profile right? The one where it finally makes things like internet connection (which HD DVD has had from day 1) mandatory? So yes they are still changing the specs. Another good reason to support HD DVD is the ability to play import movies from around the world. No more region encoding (yeah I know it is apart of spec, I think it was added to make some of the other studio's *cough*disney*cough* happy cause it wasn't there originally).
HD DVD is no more a failed format than m4a is against mp3.
Interesting, most TV's don't even support 1080P input. More interesting, it doesn't matter. Even more interesting, most people don't even know what that means.
If you're someone that cares about it, get the A30 or the A35.
Can you please explain to me what the advantage of buying a 1080p player would be since I (and millions of other people) own a 1080i TV?