Carrier IQ Logging Software Found on Many Mobile Phones

[Sardonick007]

A rose by any other name...

still smells like undisclosed information that I would want to know. Don't care what it does, I want to know when a program sends anything from my phone and I think with the money we spend on phones and plans, we have a right to know what any carrier is doing with our usage/performance matrix/data or whatever. Secret is secret, regardless of intent. The news over on the droid pond is pointing to far more invasive behavior, would be interested to see where this leads.

 

[kalsta]

That comment was not about the flexibility of the controlled platform itself though, it was like I said, a comment on how Open source enables you to extend it yourself, support it yourself (when the vendor ultimately abandons it) and grow it yourself in another direction (when the vendor decides your needs are not his concern anymore).

You simply don't seem to understand what "Freedom" means in the context of the open source philosophy. That's fine, but understand why others are not quite getting where you're trying to go when you've just deviated way off course.

The analogy I responded to tried to equate using the Android OS with living in a 'free world' and using iOS with living in a 'zoo', where you are essentially locked behind bars. You don't think that's a little dramatic? I think it's downright delusional. There's no perspective… No sense of what it's really like for the users of each system. Just a colourful analogy delivered with all the zeal of a religious fanatic.

Seriously, some of you are so caught up in the 'open source philosophy', I think you've lost sight of what constitutes a genuine end-user benefit. But let me say it again… If the ability to perform brain surgery on your device is a benefit to you, go for it. Just don't expect everyone to buy this 'freedom' brainwashing BS. While you're free to spend your weekends tinkering with your phone, the guy next door is free to Facetime his girl who lives interstate. It's just a different set of priorities.

 

[vitzr]

You don't need to be a conspiracy theorist to accept that every major tech company - Amazon, Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc - collects information on their users from the devices they distribute. In fact, this is quite obvious in almost every respect.

You are so right.

If users actually read Eula's, TOS, and all other permissions given before using apps, services, et al, they would shy away.

Welcome to the Internet circa 2011.

 

[Piggie]

Because that's an appropriate analogy...

Actually I think it is, and is the same reason I choose to build my own spec PC rather than buy an iMac.

I want the freedom to install the OS I want onto the mix of parts I want, and if in a few months time I wish to change 1 or 2 parts of the hardware then I can.
I have the widest selection of software also.

Yes, that may mean I run a virus/spyware checker in the background (a total non issue these days) but then, I value the freedom my choice gives me.

Other people of course don't want this, and are happy to buy something that works the second they take it out of the box and just buy and use officially "Approved" software from the makers own on-line store.

That's just not for me thanks.

 

[KnightWRX]

The analogy I responded to tried to equate using the Android OS with living in a 'free world' and using iOS with living in a 'zoo', where you are essentially locked behind bars. You don't think that's a little dramatic?

It's the walled garden metaphor. Apple does not deny it, no one does in fact. A little dramatic ? It's only as dramatic as you make it out to be. Don't take analogies so personally.

Again, you're misinterpreting the comment based on your fundamental lack of knowledge of the open source philosophy. The comment was not meant to infer lack of flexibility in iOS, only lack of Freedom on the user's part to manipulate the actual software infrastructure in case the vendor drops support or moves in a direction the user is not comfortable with (like this CarrierIQ business).

You misinterpreted and now you're making it sound "dramatic". It's not too late to simply bow out.

----------

Seriously, some of you are so caught up in the 'open source philosophy', I think you've lost sight of what constitutes a genuine end-user benefit.

Your mistake is assuming those of us "caught up" in the "open source philosophy" are not end-users.

Your other mistake is to assume what you think of as a benefit is the same thing we think of as a benefit. People are different. Open source respects that in offering you the choice. No one is forcing you to adhere to open source and its philosophy, but if you don't, please do not pretend to speak against it based on its merits. You simply are not tooled to do so.

 

[Jerome Morrow]

The analogy I responded to tried to equate using the Android OS with living in a 'free world' and using iOS with living in a 'zoo', where you are essentially locked behind bars. You don't think that's a little dramatic? I think it's downright delusional. There's no perspective… No sense of what it's really like for the users of each system. Just a colourful analogy delivered with all the zeal of a religious fanatic.

Seriously, some of you are so caught up in the 'open source philosophy', I think you've lost sight of what constitutes a genuine end-user benefit. But let me say it again… If the ability to perform brain surgery on your device is a benefit to you, go for it. Just don't expect everyone to buy this 'freedom' brainwashing BS. While you're free to spend your weekends tinkering with your phone, the guy next door is free to Facetime his girl who lives interstate. It's just a different set of priorities.

Oh my god, i so agree you have no idea

 

[samcraig]

You are so right.

If users actually read Eula's, TOS, and all other permissions given before using apps, services, et al, they would shy away.

Welcome to the Internet circa 2011.

Again - there are other issues aside from just letting other companies track people. If keystrokes and other data are crossing from your device to those not in compliance for their industry (PCI, Healthcare) - it's illegal. And could be very damaging.

Specifically (from hhs.gov) - bold/itals are mine

Your health information cannot be used or shared without your written permission unless this law allows it.

Give your information to your employer
Use or share your information for marketing or advertising purposes
Share private notes about your health care

 

[Jerome Morrow]

I'm getting very confused

You should be, living in a lie for so long has it's consequences.

 

[justperry]

Another reason for not having Android

 

[CocoaPuffs]

Actually I think it is, and is the same reason I choose to build my own spec PC rather than buy an iMac.

I want the freedom to install the OS I want onto the mix of parts I want, and if in a few months time I wish to change 1 or 2 parts of the hardware then I can.
I have the widest selection of software also.

Yes, that may mean I run a virus/spyware checker in the background (a total non issue these days) but then, I value the freedom my choice gives me.

Other people of course don't want this, and are happy to buy something that works the second they take it out of the box and just buy and use officially "Approved" software from the makers own on-line store.

That's just not for me thanks.

Sadly, you have misconstrued the ability to make minor decisions as some sort of ultimate freedom in life.

If the "freedom," as you would like to call it, to make some silly changes on your phone is that important to you, perhaps you should evaluate whether you're free at all.

As they said: there are more important things in life to worry about.

 

[Oletros]

Yup, okay… I think you guys are missing the point…

With a tap of my finger, my iPhone becomes a GPS navigation system, or a remote for my home theatre, or a voice recorder, or a camera, or a spirit level, or a cook book, or a personal trainer, or one of the best handheld gaming devices on the planet… I could of course go on and on. Can someone please explain to me again how this device has removed all my freedom??

And what has to do that with you first claim that before the iPhone there wasn't applications? is that claim what I was answering, not the one about freedom.

 

[doctor-don]

No he didn't. I did: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1284749/

My posts here predate his tweets and I first mentioned this on MacRumors on November 25.

The article is dated November 30, so 'tonight' means just that, and your claim to fame is not diminished.

Tonight iPhone developer @chpwn reported on Carrier IQ references ...

– That does NOT say the developer is / was the FIRST.

 

[kalsta]

Your other mistake is to assume what you think of as a benefit is the same thing we think of as a benefit. People are different. Open source respects that in offering you the choice. No one is forcing you to adhere to open source and its philosophy, but if you don't, please do not pretend to speak against it based on its merits. You simply are not tooled to do so.

Nice. Evidently, you're not 'tooled' to actually read my comments or to have a sensible discussion about this. I have not once spoken against open source. And I have acknowledged that different users have different priorities. But having said that, I do think reality tends to escape you and your ilk from time to time. Essentially, you are crusading a philosophy. But a philosophy is only relevant if at some point it benefits your life. How many of you are seriously going to 'manipulate the actual software infrastructure in case the vendor drops support or moves in a direction the user is not comfortable with'? Really?

 

[vitzr]

Again - there are other issues aside from just letting other companies track people. If keystrokes and other data are crossing from your device to those not in compliance for their industry (PCI, Healthcare) - it's illegal. And could be very damaging.

Specifically (from hhs.gov) - bold/itals are mine

Your health information cannot be used or shared without your written permission unless this law allows it.

Give your information to your employer
Use or share your information for marketing or advertising purposes
Share private notes about your health care

I do not disagree.

However if we step away from the specifics of this particular case and look at the big picture, the government and large corporations especially (not exclusively) have conducted nefarious activities invading the rights of individuals for centuries.

I could cite example after example, consuming hours of writing and pages here. One simple example outside of the tech sector are insurance companies.

For those who value privacy, and are willing to spend time to seek out the truth, will find that the barn door has been left open for many years and the horse named privacy is long gone.

 

[erzhik]

So all info is stored on Carrier IQ servers? Extra, Extra! Carrier IQ servers hacked, all info stolen (including but not limited to credit card numbers, passwords, logins, etc).

Seems like they are stepping on wiretapping law. If proven guilty, those execs will have fun next year.

 

[dBeats]

You have to believe that the carriers are requiring this and therefore all phones have some sort of version of this. It blatantly violates wiretapped laws, at least the sprit of them, and if you think one hacker's point of view is sufficient to call Apple harmless on this, I've got to say you are probably very naive.

Don't look at this as Andriod vs Apple, look at this as carriers vs. you.

 

[lincolntran]

The analogy I responded to tried to equate using the Android OS with living in a 'free world' and using iOS with living in a 'zoo', where you are essentially locked behind bars. You don't think that's a little dramatic? I think it's downright delusional. There's no perspective… No sense of what it's really like for the users of each system. Just a colourful analogy delivered with all the zeal of a religious fanatic.

Seriously, some of you are so caught up in the 'open source philosophy', I think you've lost sight of what constitutes a genuine end-user benefit. But let me say it again… If the ability to perform brain surgery on your device is a benefit to you, go for it. Just don't expect everyone to buy this 'freedom' brainwashing BS. While you're free to spend your weekends tinkering with your phone, the guy next door is free to Facetime his girl who lives interstate. It's just a different set of priorities.

It's the walled garden metaphor. Apple does not deny it, no one does in fact. A little dramatic ? It's only as dramatic as you make it out to be. Don't take analogies so personally.

Again, you're misinterpreting the comment based on your fundamental lack of knowledge of the open source philosophy. The comment was not meant to infer lack of flexibility in iOS, only lack of Freedom on the user's part to manipulate the actual software infrastructure in case the vendor drops support or moves in a direction the user is not comfortable with (like this CarrierIQ business).

You misinterpreted and now you're making it sound "dramatic". It's not too late to simply bow out.

----------



Your mistake is assuming those of us "caught up" in the "open source philosophy" are not end-users.

Your other mistake is to assume what you think of as a benefit is the same thing we think of as a benefit. People are different. Open source respects that in offering you the choice. No one is forcing you to adhere to open source and its philosophy, but if you don't, please do not pretend to speak against it based on its merits. You simply are not tooled to do so.

Sadly, you have misconstrued the ability to make minor decisions as some sort of ultimate freedom in life.

If the "freedom," as you would like to call it, to make some silly changes on your phone is that important to you, perhaps you should evaluate whether you're free at all.

As they said: there are more important things in life to worry about.

Nice. Evidently, you're not 'tooled' to actually read my comments or to have a sensible discussion about this. I have not once spoken against open source. And I have acknowledged that different users have different priorities. But having said that, I do think reality tends to escape you and your ilk from time to time. Essentially, you are crusading a philosophy. But a philosophy is only relevant if at some point it benefits your life. How many of you are seriously going to 'manipulate the actual software infrastructure in case the vendor drops support or moves in a direction the user is not comfortable with'? Really?

When I was in college and on a tight budget, open source was a huge help for me. I can find any tool I need to get things done. I can custom my PC down to the metal. However, I find that open source software if less stable then official/commercial software. Sometime I had to spend days to get things to work the way I wanted. I didn't mind that. I actually had fun doing that. I like the flexibility and openness in open source. I had a $1000 PC would give the newest mac pro a run for its money.

On the other hand, I'm now done with college and moved on to have a family. Beside work and my own business, I want to spend quality time with my wife and family and kids. I found myself not having time to tinker things anymore. I'm totally happy about it because at this stage I realized I rather spend time with my family than spend time tinker things. It's not worth it for me anymore. Now, I just want things to work and work excellently out of the box. I don't want to deal with which driver I need, which video card I need, etc. The iPhone and Mac machines fit my requirements. I now spend time getting things done instead of spending time making things work and then get things done. Sometime I still need open source software, but that need is a lot less than it's used to be.

 

[KnightWRX]

Essentially, you are crusading a philosophy.

Again, you're the only one here being over dramatic. I don't not crusade the philosophy, I was simply pointing out to you (and this is something you still fail to grasp I'm sorry to say) that you should not interject into discussions about the philosophy when you obviously do not understand it nor adhere to it.

I use and love open source software. I have derived great benefits from its merits. That you don't and don't see or understand this is none of my concern nor do I wish to "convert" you. I simply want you to cease your interjections as they are clearly made with great misunderstanding of the topic.

I will stop responding to you now. Yes, you are quite right, we cannot hold a discussion because you keep missing the point that you have no understanding of what is being discussed.

 

[bgtrack]

So I understand how this affects Android users...but how does it affect myself as an iPhone user? Sorry for the noob question...just want to get my facts straight. Any input Arn?

 

[BaldiMac]

No, you're wrong, they can't prevent it

Sure they could. The same way they maintain control of other parts of Android. Include licensing requirements to use the proprietary Google apps and trademarks.

 

[Oletros]

Sure they could. The same way they maintain control of other parts of Android.

Once released, they don't maintain control over it

Include licensing requirements to use the proprietary Google apps and trademarks.

Google Apps and Market are not open, just a little difference.

so, no, they can't prevent that OEM's or carriers install the programs they want

 

[wovel]

More BS linkbait. There is no key logging software, and no evidence that any key logging has been done in iPhones. The software that is there, reports metrics, but only in diagnostic mode.

Calling it "key logging" which is a common term for software that secretly logs ALL keystrokes is, quite frankly, dishonest.

But then, that's what passes for "journalism" these days.

Maybe on the upside it will knock $5 off Apple's stock price tomorrow.

You did not read past the title did you?

 

[PlipPlop]

Another reason for not having Android

I think you mean another reason not to live in the USA. We have looked at several Android phones in our office on various carriers and from several manufacturers and none have this spyware in it. Looks like its just an American thing.

 

[BaldiMac]

Once released, they don't maintain control over it

They do if the manufacturer chooses to use Google Apps and trademarks.

Google Apps and Market are not open, just a little difference.

That's the point.

so, no, they can't prevent that OEM's or carriers install the programs they want

Yes, they can. They could make it a licensing requirement in order to use Google apps and trademarks. Just like they do with the Nexus line.

 

[mmzplanet]

There are potentially bigger issues at stake whether or not you agreed to any TOS.

There are compliance issues.

IE - for the Healthcare industry - there's HIPAA. And governance for electronic medical records, etc. If Apple and/or Carrier IQ is not following compliance they are breaking serious laws and could be fined extensively. Same thing for credit cards and PCI compliance.

That is not a concern for device makers. Protection of health information is the responsibility of each healthcare provider... not the tech industry. Apple, Microsoft, HP, are do not make products with HIPPA in mind. Each healthcare IT staff should have a security department that decides what devices are appropriate for accessing their data.

With that said... nothing stops a Hospital from going after Apple or HTC if the device does something to leak data that no one could have possibly discovered. Even then, I think in most EULAs, it states that the user is responsible to comply with local laws.