Chinese Company Hyperdon Sold Fake Apple Watches at CES

[goobot]

I just logged in to say that your comment just shows how ignorant you are of how a final product such as the Apple Watch gets its final price. The price you pay includes years of research, development, which again intrinsically include design, prototyping, machines, countless man hours, the very same again for the accompanying software. Potatohead thieves can blatantly rip these off and sell inferior plastic junk (eg. Samsung) for 1/20th the price, because they didn't have to do any of these.

If you don't understand product development and business management, I'd suggest you refrain yourself from making ridiculous comments about it.

While your are right to some degree you are grossly over estimating R&D costs for apple. Last year they sold 169 million iPhones. Apple spent 4.4 Billion in R&D all together for all of their products. Just for fun lets just say the iPhone will bare all the R&D cost. That would be 26$ per iPhone everyone would have to pay. The components of the iPhone cost 200$ so with the cheap manufacturing from China along with mass shipping the iPhone doesn't even cost apple 250$ all together yet is being sold at 650$ AND this is if the iPhone takes ALL of apple R&D. Mac, iPad, apple watch, ect. The apple watch is over priced by a ton.

 

[Rogifan]

For those that think the price of this knockoff means Watch is overpriced then I guess you think all wearables are overpriced?

 

[hallsofmontezum]

You making an argumentum ad populum fallacy doesn't make me incorrect, and doesn't make either you or the other poster less ignorant about basic economics.

The other poster is correct. You are wrong. His comment is insightful and intelligent and yours is ridiculous, explaining why his comment was voted up so many times.

Your ignorance about the costs of designing, prototyping, testing, and marketing are stunning. Not to mention the fact that you somehow missed the fact that this blatant copy is only skin-deep; it can't actually do what an actual iWatch can.

 

[johnnyturbouk]

So these guys actually came to CES to sell fake carp. Ballsy? Dumb?

Hilarious, wonder if they sent Ive and Cook an invite.

 

[holydude]

While your are right to some degree you are grossly over estimating R&D costs for apple. Last year they sold 169 million iPhones. Apple spent 4.4 Billion in R&D all together for all of their products. Just for fun lets just say the iPhone will bare all the R&D cost. That would be 26$ per iPhone everyone would have to pay. The components of the iPhone cost 200$ so with the cheap manufacturing from China along with mass shipping the iPhone doesn't even cost apple 250$ all together yet is being sold at 650$ AND this is if the iPhone takes ALL of apple R&D. Mac, iPad, apple watch, ect. The apple watch is over priced by a ton.

I am not going to try to justify apple's prices a they have indeed a huge margins. BUT

To sum up the costs :

R&D
Software
Operations
Retail


Software development is expensive and remember that Apple mainly uses US resources. There is a whole lifecycle about software and bet your ass they pay also a lot of testers (even when their newest SW is a crap). And that's not only the SW you use as a customer (meaning iOS/OS X directly) but also the SW that powers their entire ecosystems. Lots of backend code for all types of services

Operations

Servers and IT staff maintaining the apple ecosystem. Nuff said. Servers are expensive. Electricity is expensive. And remember they still have a lot of US people working on that staff. Most of the other companies already sent these jobs offshore.

Retail

Countless stores and people maintaining the interaction with customers. They cost money too.

Most of the IT jobs in US are 100k $. So you can imagine the costs.

All of this said i don't understand how you americans can support these chinese companies. Not only they are all partially state owned but they are heavily supported by the same state to expand.

Companies outsourcing manufacturing to China are supporting its economy indirectly. But you as a customer are supporting China directly by choosing to pay for these crappy products.

 

[KALLT]

Oh, you think Apple is immune from selling broken or unsafe machinery?

No. But Apple is subject to safety regulations. That is not necessarily the case with counterfeits, especially if they are difficult to sell in countries with anti-counterfeit laws.

 

[mi7chy]

Probably came from same factory so now we know the true cost of Apple watch.

 

[Menopause]

Ignoring the fact that Hyperdon had its own R&D man hours in the development of their watch, market prices are based on demand and supply more so than on the sunk costs of production.

If you don't understand the basic economics of pricing, I'd suggest you refrain yourself from making ridiculous comments about it.

Ooh look how I hurt your posterior end. Did you get dropped as a baby or are you just a petty Apple hating troll?

Hyperdon has its R&D and it comes up with a 1-to-1 copy of the Apple Watch? Really? That's your defense? Ofcourse supply and demand controls market prices, duh. If you've been living under a rock (or rather a bubble of denial), there already are Smart Watches in the market, go ask Samsung how much garbage they have manufactured so far in raw fear of the Apple Watch just by its rumors in the last couple of years. And there is a demand for something as markedly beautiful as Apple is capable of creating, hence the price. It's too high for you, it's may not be to me.

Now if the case is that you're too poor and actually can't afford an Apple Watch, you want to make yourself believe that a $25 Chinese copy is in some way good enough, I pity you. I know a handful of people that wear fake Rolex pieces and are still proud of themselves. Pick up the remainder of dignity from the floor and join that bunch, rather than teach me about economics.

 

[Spectrum]

$30 seems about right for a device with such limited capability as the iWatch. Very hard to see why Apple thinks their version is worth $350+.

Yes, they will sell some, but I think it will be a massive niche market, similar to the luxury watch market. Massive markup and minimal unit sales (relatively speaking).

 

[Piggie]

Remember folks, this company is also copying Samsung and other brands of phones.

I hope you are equally upset they are copying these other products?

----------

It is complete embarassment for CES to allow such a ripoff product to be presented at the event. It like allowing fake Ferraries to be presented at big motor show. This is madness and a complete lack of shame. These chinease manufacurers are below any business standards and they should be prosecuted and puted in jail. Stealing intelectual property is like stealing any other type of property and should be condemned by the whole industry. Im shcoked not from the existance of this produc but from seeing it at big consumer electronics event which mean that the level of acceptance of such business practice is too damn high.

What do you feel about Kit Cars ?

Where you purchase a basic chassis from another car complete with engine etc, then you buy the Fibreglass kit, and with a lot of time and skill you end up with something that looks not a million miles away from a well known supercar but for a fraction of the cost?

There are many Kit Car companies.

Should they all be banned?

 

[H2SO4]

I just logged in to say that your comment just shows how ignorant you are of how a final product such as the Apple Watch gets its final price. The price you pay includes years of research, development, which again intrinsically include design, prototyping, machines, countless man hours, the very same again for the accompanying software. Potatohead thieves can blatantly rip these off and sell inferior plastic junk (eg. Samsung) for 1/20th the price, because they didn't have to do any of these.

If you don't understand product development and business management, I'd suggest you refrain yourself from making ridiculous comments about it.

I logged in to refute yours. Whilst there is some sense in what you said, Apple do gouge you on price. No question.
They get their RAM, cables and chips from the same people as everybody else but charge massive amounts more money. On a whole computer I can see it but on a RAM stick or a hard drive option. We are talking, gouge, rip off, theft whatever you want to call it, no doubt about it. If you and the other 35 upvoters don't understand ‘lets see how much margin we can get away with applying just for the hell of it', I'd suggest you refrain yourself from making ridiculous comments about it.

 

[louiek]

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[paysdoufs]

Another good reason to KEEP the technology and MANUFACTURING in the US.

LOL - you made my day. Do you look at the MR homepage from time to time? Like, the article two positions above this one?

Do you think Apple would amass the same amounts of money by producing in the first world?

 

[theluggage]

If they have talent and capacity why not make an original? why rip other peoples talent.

What you'd have to ask yourself is, if they'd produced an "original" cheap'n'cheerful smart watch, would they currently be plastered over all the tech news websites, or would it just be buried amidst hundreds of similar me-too products? Its not just the "design" they're stealing - its all of Apple's publicity machine.

Actually, I'm not sure in this case. I can see how fakery would pay off with a knockoff of a well-established iDevice, but I'm not sure that there are that many cheap'n'cheerful smartwatches on the market, and a usable (which the article seems to suggest) sub-$50 smart watch presented at CES that was actually available to buy might indeed get publicity and be successful.

I guess the problem might be the current ridiculous state of intellectual property law: since any successful "original" smart watch will immediately see trolls crawling out from under their bridges with patents on things like "displaying alternative representations of time information in response to a user interaction"[1] - so if you're going to get sued and embargoed anyway, you might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb and do an all-out copy, and rake in the money before the lawsuit arrives...


[1] Just made that up, but would you bet against it being patented?

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

I just logged in to say that your comment just shows how ignorant you are of how a final product such as the Apple Watch gets its final price. The price you pay includes years of research, development, which again intrinsically include design, prototyping, machines, countless man hours, the very same again for the accompanying software. Potatohead thieves can blatantly rip these off and sell inferior plastic junk (eg. Samsung) for 1/20th the price, because they didn't have to do any of these.

If you don't understand product development and business management, I'd suggest you refrain yourself from making ridiculous comments about it.

...and sell it in the U.S and a slap in the face and a test to see what American will do.

 

[Rogifan]

$30 seems about right for a device with such limited capability as the iWatch. Very hard to see why Apple thinks their version is worth $350+.

Yes, they will sell some, but I think it will be a massive niche market, similar to the luxury watch market. Massive markup and minimal unit sales (relatively speaking).

Probably came from same factory so now we know the true cost of Apple watch.

Man we need the down vote back.

 

[flottenheimer]

I'm not surprised about the copywatch itself.
But $27. Twentysevendollars.

 

[jlc1978]

[/]Originally Posted by JeffyTheQuik
Besides, the price that something sells for has more to do with demand, and not cost.[/i]

A case in point is oil. It costs the same to pump it out of the ground, and it has sold for $15-$150/barrel in the last 10 years.Actually, I work in the oil industry and the 'price' of oil significantly impacts the cost of oil, believe it or not. When the oil price is high, it will/can be extracted from the ground in places where it is hugely expensive to do so otherwise and would make no commercial sense when the oil price is low. In simple terms, fracking, for example, as a source of oil basically makes no commercial sense at around $60 a barrel

Actually, he is correct - price is determined by demand, not cost of production. More demand, higher price and greater profits as the cost of production hasn't increased for producers who pumped at the lower price.

You are correct, however, that as price goes up more sellers will enter the market because oil that is unprofitable to extract at $10 a barrel is profitable at say $60. Price drives production and thus more supply comes available which also tends to limit the price increase. However, the cost of production has nothing to do with the price of oil; that is strictly a function of supply and demand. That's why Saudi can open its tap and drive price down and driving higher cost producers out of the market.

 

[Spectrum]

Man we need the down vote back.

Why?

Early specifications suggest that the Apple watch will do very little. Yes it will have some uses. Yes it will be convenient for some. But seriously, if a knock off company can come to market earlier with something that pairs and can take calls and give you alerts...for $27...then I really question the logic of a $350+ iPhone accessory.

I'm not saying it won't sell. But there are relatively few people that spend that kind of money on a watch. And those that do probably want something rather more elegant and timeless than a throwaway gadget that'll be obsolete in 1-2 years.

 

[lowendlinux]

LOL - you made my day. Do you look at the MR homepage from time to time? Like, the article two positions above this one?

Do you think Apple would amass the same amounts of money by producing in the first world?

This is why I don't have much sympathy for US industry in general and tech specifically. You farmed out production to reduce costs this is one of the things you need to deal with when you've done that. You made the bed now lie in it.

 

[bbeagle]

Why?

Early specifications suggest that the Apple watch will do very little. Yes it will have some uses. Yes it will be convenient for some. But seriously, if a knock off company can come to market earlier with something that pairs and can take calls and give you alerts...for $27...then I really question the logic of a $350+ iPhone accessory.

I'm not saying it won't sell. But there are relatively few people that spend that kind of money on a watch. And those that do probably want something rather more elegant and timeless than a throwaway gadget that'll be obsolete in 1-2 years.

Why would I buy a steak at a fancy restaurant for $50, when I can get a steakhouse double at Checkers for $2?

Just because one picture looks similar, the $27 watch is in no way the same as Apple's watch. The software is different (can only connect to jail-broken iPhones), and the hardware is cheaper as well.

It's just like the Android tablet my daughter got from an Aunt for Christmas. It's so much cheaper than my iPad. My daughter was all thrilled to get a tablet, then realized after about a week how horrible her tablet was compared to an iPad, that she doesn't want to use it anymore. The touch screen doesn't work as fluidly, you have to press harder, things lag, and it just feels 'cheap'. The screen can't be viewed at any angles other than straight on. Impossible to help my daughter do things as we both can't see the screen and all the colors at the same time. Only about 400mb available for apps out of 8gb? Really? The battery life is very poor. And the it's very slow.

The GUI is horrible as well - seriously WINDOWS open and close everywhere? On a TABLET? You have to hit the 'small little X' buttons to close windows just right? You go into settings to delete apps? It's a horrible experience, and not worth the $75 that was spent on it. But Android fans will look at the cost as the ONLY factor. $75 vs $300? Wow! Apple is ripping you off - when in fact the opposite is true. Apple gives you a quality product for $300, while the NextBook is garbage for $75.

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

Actually, I work in the oil industry and the 'price' of oil significantly impacts the cost of oil, believe it or not. When the oil price is high, it will/can be extracted from the ground in places where it is hugely expensive to do so otherwise and would make no commercial sense when the oil price is low. In simple terms, fracking, for example, as a source of oil basically makes no commercial sense at around $60 a barrel

Yeah, I felt a little on the edge making that statement, but decided to leave it in for the "demand" part. I guess I should have stated it as, "In an already established well, the price of extracting the oil doesn't change with the price on the market..."

Thank you for the education and the perspective, and the oil! My car wouldn't run as well without it!

 

[Rogifan]

Why?

Early specifications suggest that the Apple watch will do very little. Yes it will have some uses. Yes it will be convenient for some. But seriously, if a knock off company can come to market earlier with something that pairs and can take calls and give you alerts...for $27...then I really question the logic of a $350+ iPhone accessory.

I'm not saying it won't sell. But there are relatively few people that spend that kind of money on a watch. And those that do probably want something rather more elegant and timeless than a throwaway gadget that'll be obsolete in 1-2 years.

Because you think this $27 piece of garbage is comparable to Watch. It's like saying don't buy an iPad or a a Nexus 9 because you can get tablets at Walmart for $50.

 

[Spectrum]

I agree with you regarding the quality of tablets. But fundamentally, these watches are all going to be devices with barely any battery life, almost no features and a tiny screen (that may or may not need to be touch sensitive). The differences between them in component cost should be minimal, so it all comes down to software integration and final finish.

I say again: There will be buyers/users of the iWatch that will love it, but from my perspective, on paper, the few useful features it advertises (such as pairing calls/alerts with an iPhone) would be more acceptable on a $30 device that I don't mind getting wet/dropping etc whilst cycling/running etc.

There is not way I, personally, would pay $300+ for such limited functionality. My opinion, not yours or anyone elses!

Why would I buy a steak at a fancy restaurant for $50, when I can get a steakhouse double at Checkers for $2?

Just because one picture looks similar, the $27 watch is in no way the same as Apple's watch. The software is different (can only connect to jail-broken iPhones), and the hardware is cheaper as well.

It's just like the Android tablet my daughter got from an Aunt for Christmas. It's so much cheaper than my iPad. My daughter was all thrilled to get a tablet, then realized after about a week how horrible her tablet was compared to an iPad, that she doesn't want to use it anymore. The touch screen doesn't work as fluidly, you have to press harder, things lag, and it just feels 'cheap'. The screen can't be viewed at any angles other than straight on. Impossible to help my daughter do things as we both can't see the screen and all the colors at the same time. The battery life is very poor. And the it's very slow.

The GUI is horrible as well - seriously WINDOWS open and close everywhere? On a TABLET? You have to hit the 'small little X' buttons to close windows just right? You go into settings to delete apps? It's a horrible experience, and not worth the $75 that was spent on it. But Android fans will look at the cost as the ONLY factor. $75 vs $300? Wow! Apple is ripping you off - when in fact the opposite is true. Apple gives you a quality product for $300, while the NextBook is garbage for $75.

 

[brendu]

The apple watch is over priced by a ton.

If you think that then you must agree that all Apple products are over priced. If you are posting here it's fair to say you have bought at least one Apple product so you must have overpaid for it.