I believe that the OP was indicating that a lot of engineering software is Windows based.
This software was never compiled for MacOS and it's doubtful that it would ever be recompiled for ARM.
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Craig Federighi and Greg Joswiak Discuss Apple Silicon Transition, Lack of Boot Camp Support, and More
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I believe that the OP was indicating that a lot of engineering software is Windows based.
This software was never compiled for MacOS and it's doubtful that it would ever be recompiled for ARM.
Tell that to PowerPC owners who can barely even get on the internet anymore. That was hardly a great transition for people who purchased an expensive PowerMac G5. Mac Pro buyers today spending over $6000 will be warily watching what Apple does. Apple risks losing the pro market forever if they do this wrong.
Gruber has this weird habit of rambling off tangent for 5 minutes every time he's about to ask a question. Not the best guy for these glorified PR appearances.
If they made it to Catalina, it means they’re likely updated on all their API/framework usage. Supporting ARM is very likely just compile to a Universal app and forget about it. If they don’t, it’s a business decision, not a technical one. If they dropped support for the ecosystem at Catalina, then they made their decision well before Apple Silicon was a thing... it didn’t even factor into their decision.
If they were WORKING on Catalina and this Apple Silicon thing just happened, then that’s the same as number one. The work they’re putting in to become Catalina compliant will go a long way to making them Universal.
I think of it like this. They didn’t start out creating A series processors with the intent to eventually go toe to toe with Intel’s high end mobile chips, but, whatdyaknow, here we are.
They may not intend to enable better virtualization for Windows but may get there as a side effect.If you can sit through the developer videos, it paints a picture of their vision for the macOS of the future. Most are half an hour or so and describe the differences between Intel Mac and Apple Silicon Mac.
FP should not be used in engineering tools? What kind of engineering tools are you thinking about? Because performance hit of custom data types which are more precise are often severe.
My opinion only but I think that Apple lost the pro market some time ago.
I think this is slightly different since browsers on Intel macOS are Evergreen, while PowerPC were not and frozen in time. Now does that mean in 10 years everything will be great? Most likely not. But the 2019 Mac Pro was always a risky proposition because of the consistent pattern of ARM rumors for the last couple years.
Yep, Timmy is a decent toy maker. Computer engineer he is not. What has Tim Cook patented?
MacOS Big Sur will still support bootcamp and vitalization on Intel based Macs.
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Apple is a corporation whose main goal is to make money and increase share value.
I think they've lost some pros or pro markets, but this is definitely not true across the board. I can only speak from my own experience, but every designer, developer, photographer and writer that I know still use a Mac. The places I've seen things shift are in VFX and video production studios (although many that I work with still use MacBook Pros when off site, then have beefier Windows machines for later) and audio suites.
The danger with blanket statements about pros is that a pro isn't a single type of user with a single set of needs. It's easy for individuals to generalise their needs to be the needs of all pros, but that's not what things are like in the real world.
I agree and say that the only Pro market Apple’s concerned with is the part that uses Final Cut Pro X and Logic Pro X. Any other Pro still using the Mac likely prefers the Mac so much that the raw dollar value difference compared to other options isn’t worth it. Those users aren’t going to any other OS unless the application they need isn’t being offered on macOS anymore.
I'm a little more skeptical on the games front. When the PPC version of Rosetta was released way back in 2006 OpenGL was not supported completely. Games like Unreal Tournament and Diablo 2 took a hit because they had to be run with the software renderers. While I think Metal based games will prolly port fine history casts doubts on OpenGL games which is still the majority on Mac.
I suspect Gruber is listening with AirPods, but is throwing away the audio from the AirPods and instead capturing from a high quality podcaster-style (broadcast style) mic that’s just offscreen. Listening through AirPods rather than having the audio play into the room means no problems with the mic (and Mac) having to cancel out the echo/feedback from the sound in the room (just like in a recording studio). His camera could be anything, high-end webcam, moderately good video camera, or a DSLR piped into his Mac.
As @incoherent_1 suggested, shows like this can use a Skype call or similar to let the participants interact in real-time, with each also recording their audio (and possibly video) at very high quality locally, to combine later. Marco Arment wrote an app specifically for doing this, that he uses for his Accidental Tech Podcast. They know each other, it’s not unreasonable to assume that Gruber is using that app to do this show.
Intel Macs are the only reason I will look at a Mac so the switch to ARM Macs is probably the end of the line for me. Apple will be able to control which OS you install on the ARM Mac so will also be able to control EOLing the hardware. No thanks. They get away with that nonsense with their iPhones but not their computers.
Virtualization of x86 is an enabler for developers to buy Intel Macs but with ARM Macs we have Apple now cutting off the developer's arm. Without developers your platform will wither and die. Sure you might be left with the dross from the iPad App Store but that is mostly pointless. You don't get desktop apps there.
What ARM virtualization that will be supported is a red herring as ARM Linux is a corner case and ARM Windows is non-functional. Neither of these cases solves the x86 problem Apple has which is probably 10x slower than virtualization if you use an emulator like qemu.
A lot of Apple cheerleaders on here are exclaiming the virtue of ARM Macs but it's people walking away to other brands that is the real issue here. x86 Windows gives you an out for buying an Intel Mac but that doesn't exist with these boutique ARM Macs.
Virtualization of x86 is an enabler for developers to buy Intel Macs but with ARM Macs we have Apple now cutting off the developer's arm. Without developers your platform will wither and die. Sure you might be left with the dross from the iPad App Store but that is mostly pointless. You don't get desktop apps there.
What ARM virtualization that will be supported is a red herring as ARM Linux is a corner case and ARM Windows is non-functional. Neither of these cases solves the x86 problem Apple has which is probably 10x slower than virtualization if you use an emulator like qemu.
A lot of Apple cheerleaders on here are exclaiming the virtue of ARM Macs but it's people walking away to other brands that is the real issue here. x86 Windows gives you an out for buying an Intel Mac but that doesn't exist with these boutique ARM Macs.
Other material shows they will allow boot from external drive for supported macOS. So I guess there's still chance for a new "rEFIt" style bootloader for Linux.
But those are pure third party thing and not official supported anymore.
Same here. As an artist and computer geek I don't want to relinquish control of my laptop/desktop to Apple. What happen if Apple decided to block all third party application installs one day? Or on a whim decided to ban World of Warcraft on Mac? Those possibilities are a no go for me.
Looking at the Razr option for gaming after I upgrade in a few years. Brilliantly enough PC laptops like MS and Razr and even Dell have caught up with Macs in design.
Virtualization requires hardware support to passthrough the x86 instructions direct to the Intel chip. You can't do that other than via software emulation on ARM.
The wildcard here is if Microsoft is successful at expanding Windows on ARM and getting the major windows software makers running on it. With Microsoft and Apple both going ARM, then that seems like a momentum shift.
The reality in the business world is that there are still a huge number of applications that only run on Windows, and if you can run them in either virtualization or bootcamp, then its going to create a scenario where a Mac isn't an option. I looked at Parallel's blog post about this and it was not comforting that they will be able to do Windows virtualization. Every question about it received the same blanket statement to refer to the blog post for answers - a recursive loop of an answer.
@boss.king , My daughter is a UX designer and in her company all the designers use Windows, though she personally has a Mac. She's using the Adobe suite, so that is platform independent. Personally, I'm a Project Manager and Microsoft Project is table stakes for a PM. It has always been the one app that I have to run in virtualization.
It just seems that everyone is ignoring this elephant in the room... how will you run a Windows only app on an Apple Silicon Mac.
Yeah, probably just like it did before for PowerPC after the switch to Intel. Some of us have not forgotten that fiasco.
From the WWDC videos that have been posted, you will be able to install the OS you want to install, even in the future, if you want to install older versions of macOS that are no longer signed. They’re a pretty big chunk of content to listen through, but there are some answers to the questions folks are posting here.
Agree! Wasn't there virtualization software from 3rd parties during the PowerPC era to run x86 Windows, aka Virtual PC? So even though you won't be able to run bootcamp, I imagine you will be able to run Windows on Apple Silicon when either Parallels or VM Fusion comes up with a solution. It be interesting to know what % of those who own a Mac 'require' bootcamp for Windows as oppose to those who can do it via virtualization.
No it doesn't. The business world is x86 based and will remain so for infinity. All other cpu chips fell by the wayside, even Itanium from Intel.
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No, you are confused. Virtualization is hardware based while emulation is software based. The difference is night and day.
I would love to see Apple Silicon in a non-Apple product but that would involve Apple licensing hardware. And would they allow Linux installs? I use Linux for some apps at home.