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Craig Federighi and Greg Joswiak Discuss Apple Silicon Transition, Lack of Boot Camp Support, and More
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" all of the different ways Apple has now for developers to build Mac apps"
Not many developers care about this. It's a very niche market.
Not many developers care about this. It's a very niche market.
I don’t think anyone ignoring it. It’s fairly clear that you won’t run a Windows only app on an Apple Silicon Mac. The IMPORTANT thing is that this ONLY affects:
Folks that are currently using an Intel Mac but REALLY REALLY NEEED to get one of those Apple Silicon Macs, and...
No one else.
There is a version of Windows 10 that can run on ARM but there isn't much developer interest. Most applications of any value on Windows are x86-based.
iOS 14 will support iPhones as old as the 6S, which is 6 years old. So what are you talking about?
Where did they say that? All I have seen is that no you can't boot an x86 operating system.
You do remember Apple could lock down the bootloader on a Intel Mac and ban all third party install on it also right?
It's not related to ARM and not a topic for today.
This is only true on Macs that will use Apple's custom silicon. It will still be possible on Intel-based Macs
Have you missed the dozens of threads and hundreds of posts where people have asked this exact question? It seems like half of macrumors is only talking about this issue (even though it's a very small, niche market you're asking about).
It kind of blows my mind that so many people give a crap about Windows on a Mac. Lots of things are cross-platform or web accessible these days. Windows in the cloud is very accessible. If you game, then build a Windows PC like just about every other gamer does. If your profession requires you to use a Windows-only app and you're using a Mac, then you're using the wrong computer (i.e. separate your personal preferences from your professional needs).
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I do too - in addition to all sorts of dev tools on the Mac (various non-MS tech stacks, XCode, etc.), but I'm hopeful something sorts itself out. I've already moved most of my development services (for MS) off the VM, so I'm really just down to needing a good VS IDE solution (and an SSMS equivalent), whether that's X86 emulation via a VM product or a native MacOS option (at the moment, MS VS for Mac has some issues).
FWIW, I currently use Parallels, I even use it in Coherence mode
Here’s what’s happening to Boot Camp amid the Apple silicon transition
Virtualization might not be enough for gamers, so what about Windows?
arstechnica.com
Not sure why some are having a "coronary" over loss of Bootcamp or a Window VM Guest.
If you require Windows, just run a VM on a NAS (Synology/QNAP/FreeNAS/etc.) or AWS.
If you have graphics intensive Windows tasks, then you are in the wrong place to begin with.
If you don't like those options, speak to Satya Nadella about getting 64-bit Window 10 running on ARM.
Even Linus ditched Intel for AMD.
Move over or get out of the way!
If you require Windows, just run a VM on a NAS (Synology/QNAP/FreeNAS/etc.) or AWS.
If you have graphics intensive Windows tasks, then you are in the wrong place to begin with.
If you don't like those options, speak to Satya Nadella about getting 64-bit Window 10 running on ARM.
Even Linus ditched Intel for AMD.
Move over or get out of the way!
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The reason Gruber gets to ask questions at all is because he knows what questions can be asked, and what questions are best avoided because no satisfactory response would be forthcoming.
Question - are you a developer? and if you are a developer - what do you develop? because in no way does ARM cut off developers arms unless you are developing in some highly specific scenarios - aka native windows applications. I would bet well over 50% of all development done today is done on languages and systems that are compatible across x86 and ARM - so not sure what you mean here?
And definitely I know that spending much time here at the EAE video game major/minor here at the U of U, no one wants to develop games for ARM. It's so niche. x86 is pretty much the default standard for any type of 3d/VR game development.
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It all depends. Creative content and business apps maybe ARM. But gaming apps a definite nix.
Corporations will not accept this solution and they will be saying BABYE APPLE in droves if there isn't a better solution, if there are any left now. Elitism is not the solution to any problem.
VM on a NAS is pretty unusable unless you have an expensive networking system like my friends. And professional gamers are never going to use that for Twitch streaming LoL.
Are they not good because there is not native software for what you do (forcing you to run them under Windows, either virtualized or under Bootcamp), or are they not good because they do not perform well enough?
If the former, there are two ways this might play out - cheaper better Macs might spur market share increases which may encourage other companies to port, or a widely accessible ARM platform might encourage Windows only software companies to do Windows ARM ports of their software.
As long as they support Metal, there will be very little effort to port for any application that has been developed using Apple’s tool chain (about 99% of applications these days). AutoCad, as an example has used Metal for several years.
Any legacy applications at those corporations - you are likely right - but for anything newer - this is no longer the case - most modern (last 5ish years) systems are built to run anywhere if the developers have half a brain - because most of them are browser based these days - and even native software is written in tooling that is often cross platform because its just easier for 90% of what people actually built.
You are developing games using middleware like Unreal Engine. You will never touch the CPU part of the code and your game will run on arm or Intel automatically.
Even if you build your own engine you are still coding in high level language not low level assembly.
There's no way to develop games just for ARM today just like there's no way to developer games just for Intel.
x86 is the default standard for a customer that consuming 3D/VR content. But there's no relation to the development part. Your game will run on anything your tool/compiler support.
And BTW beat saber runs on Qculus Quest which is not a x86 machine but quite popular among VR audiance.
How many professional gamers now use Macs? Even the best Mac's in the world today suck at Pro Gaming - even with Windows in Bootcamp because Apple's ****** GPU's - so who are you thinking that was lost as a customer?
I would say the market is small. If you must run Windows you are likely to buy a Windows machine not a Mac.