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I don't see it this way at all. When I make the decision to subscribe to a product or service, I consider the cost just like I would with anything else. And if the price increases, I'm notified in advance, so unlike the proverbial boiling frog, I'm well aware of the increase and can reevaluate my decision. If people don't make a budget and/or do their due diligence with regards to pricing, that's on them, not the "model".
Good for you.
I would think very few people do an itemized budget for costs below 1‰ of their income. Of those who do, how many re-evaluate their subscription after a 30 cent raise, despite that being a 10% increase of cost? I maintain it is very very very few that does, thus the boiled frog is a quite substantial part of this business model.


I would be interested to know how you make due diligence regarding future feature sets? In a license model, there will be paid upgrades with distinct features you can decide to buy or not.
In a subscription model, it is always all or nothing. You cannot decide on keeping the base functionality but skip a certain new feature set. You can only either accept paying for all features or cancel your subscription entirely.

So how do you research the future features that you will be forced to accept as long as you stay in the subscription?
 
I'm not sure why folks are focusing on the raw number of passwords
The real key is having totally unique long and challenging ones, as often as possible.

For many many key things, I have no idea what my password is and it's long and complicated and use 2FA
Everyone should be using some type of PW manager, no matter which they choose.
Exactly!
 

Like if I ask someone: "what is your bank password?"

The answer should be: "I have no idea .. it's long and complicated .. let me check my PW manager"

It shouldn't be "the dogs name" or "our wedding anniversary year"
 
Passwords: 400
Secure notes: 238

Plus a few credit cards, and "identity" cards to keep track of info about my family.
Agreed, as well as images of my Passport, Global Entry Cards and other key docs. A friend lost his passport and having an image of it in 1PW helped him get home from a trip abroad.
 
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Good for you.
I would think very few people do an itemized budget for costs below 1‰ of their income. Of those who do, how many re-evaluate their subscription after a 30 cent raise, despite that being a 10% increase of cost? I maintain it is very very very few that does, thus the boiled frog is a quite substantial part of this business model.

I track every penny I spend. That's the only way to do a budget as far as I'm concerned. All the "little" costs add up. So if people want to not track their money thoroughly and ignore subscription price increase notices, that's their choice to stop their ears and close their eyes and become the boiling frog ?‍♂️

I would be interested to know how you make due diligence regarding future feature sets? In a license model, there will be paid upgrades with distinct features you can decide to buy or not.
In a subscription model, it is always all or nothing. You cannot decide on keeping the base functionality but skip a certain new feature set. You can only either accept paying for all features or cancel your subscription entirely.

So how do you research the future features that you will be forced to accept as long as you stay in the subscription?

But that's not true. Some subscription models DO let the user choose from feature sets. For example, you might have the option to subscribe to the "standard" version or "ultimate" version.

But for software with only one version, obviously I'm satisfied with the current feature set I'm getting if I chose to subscribe, so additional features I won't use don't concern me. If the price increases to a point where I think it's no longer worth it (taking into consideration any new features they've added), then I'd simply cancel my subscription. I've done that with several of my subscriptions. And one was actually one with three tiers, including a free tier, so I "downgraded" to the free version, as it was all I needed at this point.
 
If any one fed up with 1password twisted behaviour,, we have a nice thread on the topic of other viable alternatives:-
1password Migrants thread



1password is good but it got evil.:-

1-Used to sell an app, now forced subscription
2-Uses Electron which is a heavy app to keep on all the time
3-Forces you to store your data in the cloud, their cloud. What happens if some hacker finds a loophole?

they got cocky honestly, but that is out of principle, if you like the product go ahead I used to love 1password but am not bending for their twisted business behaviours and I am not encouraging renting software.
These are good arguments. My thoughts:
1. This is unfortunate and is definitely the model that many apps are switching to. However the features in the subscription and improvements to the app are worth the subscription model, in my opinion. (More secure encryption data format and authentication process, 2FA, families, secure sharing, item history, automated backups, account recovery). It may not be worth it for everyone.
2. I am disappointed in Electron, but on my M1 it runs very smooth and takes a seriously minimal amount of resources.
3. Their cloud is the reason I pay the subscription. Their security model is by far the best I've seen and I have reviewed the security whitepapers of them and competitors. Even if they were to get hacked, there is simply no loophole for someone to find and access my things. I hold the private key and the encryption protocol is strong enough for me.
 
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1Password works very well if you need it. I grew tired of paying yet another subscription and found that Keychain has been incrementally improved over the years and would serve my limited use case.
I love the keychain, although I do use eWallet for everything should the sh@t hit the fan…
paying for a subscription to keep my passwords…
This is anathema to me.
Only work well if your entire ecosystem is Apple.

I have Linux and Windows so is a bum.
eWallet, from Ilium, has clients for iOS, iPadOS, MacOS, Windows, and Android. No subscriptions, but you do pay once for the client on each OS type. I first bought it when I was still an Android user, along with the Windows version. When I went to iOS, I bought the iOS version, which also runs on iPad, including the M1 iPad . This year, when I finally bought a Mac, I had to pay $30 (I think it was) for the MacOS version, which is compatible on M1.

All told, I probably have paid almost $100 for all these different versions. But you only need to buy each one once, so if you have 2 PCs, you pay only once. And they all sync via WiFi on my home network.
You realize this is basically an ad and MacRumors gets a cut. This isn’t a 1Password ad to get customers.
Yes, and I have no problem with MR making money from a sale. But I do have a problem with subscriptions.
Do people really have THAT many passwords? :rolleyes:
I have over 300 records in eWallet, maybe as many as 500. About 200 of those are passwords for websites, combination lock codes, and so forth. You should probably have 200 passwords too, and here’s why: when you use the same password on different services, a flaw on one might reveal the password you use on 1, 100, or 1,000 other sites. For that reason, I never use the same password more than once.

Also: my tool of choice, eWallet, doesn’t only store passwords. It can store my credit card numbers, pin codes, software install serial numbers, bank ABA numbers, and anything else that I don’t quite trust keeping in my iPhone’s Contacts.
I have over 100 logins alone for me. Then you add work, another 30. I also have it set up so I can share with my wife hand kids on certain logins. Even if you have 20-30, no way to remember all of those password (if you use a different one for each site, like you should).

Heck, even my 70+ year old mom has about 50 different logins.
I believe it!
As of right now? 570. So more than I can keep in my head, yes.
I believe you too!
Not too different from subs for photos.. "You can have your precious memories, but if you don't pay us, no dice!"
Yep, I just had to upgrade to the next tier for iCloud, and I’m none too happy. At least with my tool of choice, eWallet, all files are encrypted and stored locally. They do have an option for using Dropbox, but I have more than 3 devices. Rather than pay the hideous Dropbox subscription fee, I just use the non-cloude sync for eWallet. About once a month I gather all of my eWallet devices and have a little sync party. Takes about 5 minutes, then they’re all up to date with each other.
 
Apple really needs to address this password insanity. Everyone is telling me they have hundreds of passwords.

Maybe it’s time for a new type of Apple ID so you visit a new site, go to create a new account, look at your device and your account is automatically created and logged in. No more passwords. All those account credentials are hidden away in the enclave.
 
Like if I ask someone: "what is your bank password?"

The answer should be: "I have no idea .. it's long and complicated .. let me check my PW manager"

It shouldn't be "the dogs name" or "our wedding anniversary year"
Agreed, but for instance, Keychain a built app by Apple does this already. Create a complicated password and be safe.
 
The writing's been on the wall. The issue is, as soon a company can't sustain themselves with this sort of model, they either close up shop, or find other ways to make ends meet. And sometimes, it means switching to a subscription model (see 1Password :D )

Well, if that's the writing, fine. They can evolve, but as a customer I can still feel jobbed by it.

Since someone mentioned SiriusXM as a "subscription", here's what I'll tell you. I bought the lifetime sub. They tried really hard to remove those features or make me pay. Two class-action lawsuits later, and I have my free sub back. I listen to them all the time. I backed them when they needed the money. They got greedy, and they were told they couldn't screw people just because they felt the deal was bad now.

I wish someone could do that to 1P. For those of us who bought software that was licensed, it seems disingenuous that they continue selling a subscription, but they take away that option for license holders.

The writing on the wall should be another lawsuit.
 
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You rent all software, even the ones you have a “lifetime“ purchase. You really think you own the app you buy? You don’t.

how do I not own it? I can use it as much as possible forever. No I didn't buy the rights to redistribute it but I own a copy of it.
 
These are good arguments. My thoughts:
1. This is unfortunate and is definitely the model that many apps are switching to. However the features in the subscription and improvements to the app are worth the subscription model, in my opinion. (More secure encryption data format and authentication process, 2FA, families, secure sharing, item history, automated backups, account recovery). It may not be worth it for everyone.
2. I am disappointed in Electron, but on my M1 it runs very smooth and takes a seriously minimal amount of resources.
3. Their cloud is the reason I pay the subscription. Their security model is by far the best I've seen and I have reviewed the security whitepapers of them and competitors. Even if they were to get hacked, there is simply no loophole for someone to find and access my things. I hold the private key and the encryption protocol is strong enough for me.

How does it compare to BitWarden? Also you can never be sure since its closed source so you do not know what happens in the background.
 
how do I not own it? I can use it as much as possible forever. No I didn't buy the rights to redistribute it but I own a copy of it.
You buy a license, so you own a license if that. You technically don’t even own the iPhone because Apple owns the operating system. There were articles how farmers don’t even own tractors anymore because John Deer owns the operating system of it.
 
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Anyone try password boss? You can get a lifetime sub for unlimited devices for $34.99 also can do 3 or 5 devices as well for cheeper.

Any reviews from yup guys and gals?
 
Still using V6 standalone license on Monterey and IOS 15.5. It goes as far it goes and when it stops working, I'll leave the greedy Agilebits bandwagon for good.
 
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Do people really have THAT many passwords? :rolleyes:
1Password is not just for passwords. It holds information about Passports, Licenses, Credit Cards, Secure Notes, Bank account info, Software license codes etc and you can add picture attachments for Credit Cards, Drivers Licence, or whatever you can think of.

Things Keychain cannot do in other words.
 
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