Dells are really so insanely cheap.

[yellow]

(no, i dont have stats, but based on how we can configure the computer, it's apparent)

See, I don't see that part.. we have no idea what the profit margin is on either companies computer sales.

Based on economics, I would expect the fact that Apple sells less computers, therefore demands less materials, therefore gets less of a price break on buying bulk materials and supplies, means that Apple has to charge more per computer, and therefore probably has a smaller margin of profit then a company such as Dell.

It's a fact that Dell sells more computers, which means that their demand for materials is higher, therefore their bulk material prices should be lower, therefore their price point per computer should be lower, which gives them a much greater ability to charge more per computer and a much higher chance that their profit margin is greater.

Frankly, I have no idea whose profit margins are higher and don't really care. Because as I said a very long time ago, it should be stated that Apple's computer are EXPENSIVE, not overpriced, since there's absolutely no price to price comparison for a similar computer running OS X.

 

[bearbo]

It's not that I don't want to believe it, it's that I just simply don't. Most PC users are oblivious to what is going on in the background while they are using their PC's. Just because things are running fine, doesn't mean they are. Just because you run an automated scan using software you trust doesn't mean everything is peachy afterwords.

I'm not saying you have 100 viruses, or even one. All I'm saying is that odds are you have software on your hard drive that was not put there by you and is not serving any positive purpose (beit a program, cookie, temporary internet file, registry key, etc.) and if that doesn't bother you, I feel bad for you. It would bother me, and it always has when I was a PC user, which is why I felt it necessary to become educated in keeping my Windows machines squeaky clean, and eventually just selling them and buying Macs.

I doubt we live anywhere near each other, but I'd love to have a look at your machine. Tell ya what, you cover the cost of shipping both ways, and I'll make a list of everything I find on your machine and send it back to you (without removing anything I find if you so choose). If I can't find 10 or more items directly associated to malicious software, I'll reimburse you the cost of shipping it back to you. Sound fair?

i appreciate your concern, i really do.. i admit that a lot PC are badly infected, my college roommate's, for e.g. is bad.
i dont call myself expert in managing computers, but i am careful about my own.

i would totally be willing to have you look at it, but i do use it daily..

I doubt we live anywhere near each other, but I'd love to have a look at your machine. Tell ya what, you cover the cost of shipping both ways, and I'll make a list of everything I find on your machine and send it back to you (without removing anything I find if you so choose). If I can't find 10 or more items directly associated to malicious software, I'll reimburse you the cost of shipping it back to you. Sound fair?

edit: wait, i just re-read this thing, does it mean i have to pay for the shipping one way ANYWAY AND i dont get to use it for a week?

See, I don't see that part.. we have no idea what the profit margin is on either companies computer sales.

Based on economics, I would expect the fact that Apple sells less computers, therefore demands less materials, therefore gets less of a price break on buying bulk materials and supplies, means that Apple has to charge more per computer, and therefore probably has a smaller margin of profit than a company such as Dell.

It's a fact that Dell sells more computers, which means that their demand for materials is higher, therefore their bulk material prices should be lower, therefore their price point per computer should be lower, which gives them a much greater ability to charge more per computer and a much higher chance that their profit margin is greater.

Frankly, I have no idea whose profit margins are higher and don't really care. Because as I said a very long time ago, it should be stated that Apple's computer are EXPENSIVE, not overpriced, since there's absolutely no price to price comparison for a similar computer running OS X.

sure the bulk price might be different, but are they different as much as 100% (or 400% in the case of OP)

 

[someguy]

i appreciate your concern, i really do.. i admit that a lot PC are badly infected, my college roommate's, for e.g. is bad.
i dont call myself expert in managing computers, but i am careful about my own.

i would totally be willing to have you look at it, but i do use it daily..

I understand. Please note, though, that I barely have $100 to my name, but having worked on literally hundreds upon hundreds of clients computers over the past 4 to 5 years, I would not lose any sleep over the gamble. Not once has anyone surprised me with the cleanliness of their system. This goes for those who were even more sure than you are now about their beliefs.

 

[suneohair]

my point is apple sell their computer at a soemwhat higher profit margin than other company per computer, i'm not saying they have no reason to, i'm not saying it's unethical, i'm saying they do. (and you are really good at making contradicting arguments, btw, claiming apple doesn't, while admitting apple do because so and so).. sure dell sells more therefore they can afford, well, they do sell it at lower profit margin, end of story (no, i dont have stats, but based on how we can configure the computer, it's apparent)

Hmm. Apparently you can't read. I didn't contradict myself, I said "let's say Apple does". Which would be like me saying "let's pretend Apple does...". I didn't say they do or do not. I gave factual economic reasoning that would explain Dell and Apples situation, which is how an economist would view it.

Then I gave you the "so what if Apple sells at a higher profit".

if you dont care, you dont have to argue with me about it... (and what's w/ the shut up? it's a forum, people post in forum, i dont know what you do here... and i'm posting very close to the topic, are you?)
apparently somebody cares, who is willing to pay me $100 to see if my computer is clean or not.

You are making on argument about something you have put into context. How are profit margins relevant? You aren't going to buy because they make more money on you? It would seem that I was posting on topic, considering the original topic has been displaced. It is a forum, you can talk about whatever you want.

now if you have nothing to contribute, you can shut up... you are really making mac ppl look bad here, if you have no argument, zip. (yes, i use mac too, but at the same time, i use windows. two OS for different purpose, can you accept life?)

You are contributing ZERO to this thread. You are talking about profit margins which has nothing to do with anything. Also, talk about contradictio. You tell me I can't say "shut up" on a forum. Yet you tell me to zip it. Who is making Mac people look bad?

 

[bearbo]

Are you running any themes or haxies? Any strange 3rd party software?

i just found this from another thread, for anon purpose i dont put who posted it.

so apparently PC (or windows) arent the only computers having problem with third party applications...

 

[suneohair]

i appreciate your concern, i really do.. i admit that a lot PC are badly infected, my college roommate's, for e.g. is bad.
i dont call myself expert in managing computers, but i am careful about my own.

i would totally be willing to have you look at it, but i do use it daily..


edit: wait, i just re-read this thing, does it mean i have to pay for the shipping one way ANYWAY AND i dont get to use it for a week?

Good to see we are on topic.

 

[suneohair]

Are you running any themes or haxies? Any strange 3rd party software?

i just found this from another thread, for anon purpose i dont put who posted it.

so apparently PC (or windows) arent the only computers having problem with third party applications...

What's your point? The quote is out of context since it didn't come from this thread. It could have been about Windows or Mac OS X, how do we know?

Plus, who is to say that is the view of people in this thread? Oh thats right, it is a pointless post to draw out pointless arguments so you can do what? Convince? Please let us know your intentions. Thanks.

 

[ViveLeLivre]

I keep reading these comments about "taking the time" to secure Windows XP.

In my experience, taking time to fireproof Windows XP doesn't usually equate to a secure box. Inevitably, at some point, I'm going to download some buggy driver or app that doesn't play well with others, and reduce my system to a screeching halt.

Anyone who says they don't get at least an occasional "tell Microsoft about this problem" dialog box is either a computer scientist or a liar. How about "end task"? How much time do you spend in your task manager? Do you know what's in your registry? If you do, how many systems do you or your underlings manage in your data center? ...and what are your uptime figures for your Windows boxes compared to your Linux/Unix machines?

Botched installs, constant patching (most of the time just to add some potential anti-trust violation, or"feature", like an MSN/Live Search box in your IM window - WTF?), I could go on and on.

It's not about performance. It's about productivity. Time I spend making Windows run like it should, is time I could be spending enjoying myself on another machine. I know I'm not going to have that problem with OS X.

As a recent switcher, I didn't buy my Mac to run Windows XP on a slick looking Apple box, I bought it because with MacIntel I no longer had a compelling reason not to use OS X. It's not about the hardware, that's gravy.

 

[someguy]

wait, i just re-read this thing, does it mean i have to pay for the shipping one way ANYWAY AND i dont get to use it for a week?

What difference does it make, you aren't going to send it to me anyways.

I figure you pay both ways if I find what I'm looking for, because you'd be wasting my time and unfortunately I can't charge you for wasting everyone's time with this thread. Then, if I don't find what I'm looking for, I'd pay to have it sent back, so that the costs would be split 50/50, which is only fair, but it doesn't really matter seeing as how this situation is only hypothetical and wouldn't take place in real life.

I'll cover both ways if I find NOTHING. How's that?

EDIT: Speaking of having my time wasted, it's time for me to make better use of it... by getting something to eat.

PM me if you want to do this, because I will most likely not be participating in this thread any longer.

 

[bearbo]

Hmm. Apparently you can't read. I didn't contradict myself, I said "let's say Apple does". Which would be like me saying "let's pretend Apple does...". I didn't say they do or do not. I gave factual economic reasoning that would explain Dell and Apples situation, which is how an economist would view it.

Then I gave you the "so what if Apple sells at a higher profit".

You are making on argument about something you have put into context. How are profit margins relevant? You aren't going to buy because they make more money on you? It would seem that I was posting on topic, considering the original topic has been displaced. It is a forum, you can talk about whatever you want.

You are contributing ZERO to this thread. You are talking about profit margins which has nothing to do with anything. Also, talk about contradictio. You tell me I can't say "shut up" on a forum. Yet you tell me to zip it. Who is making Mac people look bad?

OP said, per computer base, apple charges more..
some says, you are paying for the "experience", the look, the OS (which cost a bit over 100), and this and that
i said, but those don't cost apple much to produce, certainly not justify the 4x
therefore they are therefore making bigger margin, since stuff they charge us (the experience, e.g.) doesn't really cost apple to produce, now does it
you said.. well, i dont quite understand the stuff you say.. something about me being irrelavent and not contributing

 

[yellow]

so apparently PC (or windows) arent the only computers having problem with third party applications...

?? Did anyone say that Windows was the only one? ALL computers suffer from this.

Haxies, which are specific system hacks for OS X from unsanity.com are a potential source of UI/OS instability and any good OS X troubleshooter will ask this question.

OP said, per computer base, apple charges more..

You're taking generik's word for gospel????!! That's the basis for your profit margin argument?

And an equivalent Mac is NOT 4x the price! Where are you seeing that??

 

[suneohair]

OP said, per computer base, apple charges more..
some says, you are paying for the "experience", the look, the OS (which cost a bit over 100), and this and that
i said, but those don't cost apple much to produce, certainly not justify the 4x
therefore they are therefore making bigger margin, since stuff they charge us (the experience, e.g.) doesn't really cost apple to produce, now does it
you said.. well, i dont quite understand the stuff you say.. something about me being irrelavent and not contributing

Nice rebuttal. Good to see you have something to contribute.

I simply gave economic reasons. Economists don't care about the "experience."

And you state you don't care if Apple makes a good profit. So what is the point of your argument? You have yet to state that. If you can't give it relevance then why state it?

 

[bearbo]

What difference does it make, you aren't going to send it to me anyways.

I figure you pay both ways if I find what I'm looking for, because you'd be wasting my time and unfortunately I can't charge you for wasting everyone's time with this thread. Then, if I don't find what I'm looking for, I'd pay to have it sent back, so that the costs would be split 50/50, which is only fair, but it doesn't really matter seeing as how this situation is only hypothetical and wouldn't take place in real life.

I'll cover both ways if I find NOTHING. How's that?

EDIT: Speaking of having my time wasted, it's time for me to make better use of it... by getting something to eat.

PM me if you want to do this, because I will most likely not be participating in this thread any longer.

LOL..i WAS joking in that edited part...

my job involves making different baked goods for experimentational purposes (in a R&D place).. so i've been eating muffins this week... dont know what's for next week yet

Nice rebuttal. Good to see you have something to contribute.

I simply gave economic reasons. Economists don't care about the "experience."

And you state you don't care if Apple makes a good profit. So what is the point of your argument? You have yet to state that. If you can't give it relevance then why state it?

i dont care if apple makes good profit, i do care if i have to pay more.

You're taking generik's word for gospel????!! That's the basis for your profit margin argument?

And an equivalent Mac is NOT 4x the price! Where are you seeing that??

i'm not taking his word for gospel, i'm just using the basis that everyone else is using (who says it's worth it, for the experience and blah)...

 

[yellow]

As an IT professional, I'd rather support OS X anyday.

 

[frankblundt]

i dont care if apple makes good profit, i do care if i have to pay more.

FWIW even Generik revised what he said earlier - he read the pricing wrong and had deducted the cash back offer twice. It's not 4x the price it's about 1.2x times the price.

Don't pay more. Buy a Dell. Most people here don't care, because they see a value in it which you obviously don't. Move on.

 

[suneohair]

i dont care if apple makes good profit, i do care if i have to pay more.

Then don't buy?

 

[bearbo]

.
So don't pay more. Buy a Dell. Most people here don't care, because they see a value in it which you obviously don't. Move on.

GAH! did you read any of my posts?

i would buy apple because i like it, and i would use windows because i need it

i pay for apple because i have to, i dont want to pay that much but i have to, altho sometimes i dont see why they charge that much

i pay for windows because, aside from i need it, it's cheaper

almost time for offwork, maybe that's why i don't have patient to list out my logic... btw, what do you have a problem with me... that i say positive things about windows and negative things about apple? care to be unbiased for once?

Are you running any themes or haxies? Any strange 3rd party software?
What's your point? The quote is out of context since it didn't come from this thread. It could have been about Windows or Mac OS X, how do we know?

Plus, who is to say that is the view of people in this thread? Oh thats right, it is a pointless post to draw out pointless arguments so you can do what? Convince? Please let us know your intentions. Thanks.

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=2896041

i'm simply stating that os x, like PC can be harmed by these harm-wares

i'm leaving too, this thread is sad.

 

[suneohair]

GAH! did you read any of my posts?

i would buy apple because i like it, and i would use windows because i need it

i pay for apple because i have to, i dont want to pay that much but i have to, altho sometimes i dont see why they charge that much

i pay for windows because, aside from i need it, it's cheaper

almost time for offwork, maybe that's why i don't have patient to list out my logic... btw, what do you have a problem with me... that i say positive things about windows and negative things about apple? care to be unbiased for once?

i'm leaving too, this thread is sad.

Look. If you can't see why you pay that much for the Apple maybe you should reevaluate your needs.

I buy Apples because I like them. And honestly I couldnt build or buy another machine as nice as my Mac Pro. I also like OS X, i like the craftsmanship. I like the innovation. They keep things fun and relatively new. It get about 1000% more productivity on my Mac. This coming from 6 years in IT and building Windows boxes.

 

[jamesi]

Just got a link to Dell from a friend who is looking to upgrade her laptop, so I took a look at it:

http://dellstore01.sg.dell.com/public/cart/configurator.jsp?prd_id=144100&sr_no=2

Core 2 Duo 2.0Ghz for under US$900, on and don't forget the US$350 "cash back discount" for online orders... which makes it US$550!

Just when I thought that pricing was a once off quirk, I did a search on Australian eBay here and found similar pricing for such specifications.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Dell-Inspir...QQihZ007QQcategoryZ140080QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Wow, simply just wow.

Apple: you pay more than twice for last generation's CPU which runs at a slower clock speed. I don't even know how I am going to push Apple's offering in response to such pricing. Heck, in fact I feel like an idiot for having purchased a Mac Mini at that same price, sans... you know... the screen and other bits that should wrap around it to make it a laptop! To further up the ante, Apple can't even give you that same processor for four times the price Dell is asking!

See how disgraceful it is?

i definitely think the dell comps are a swell deal for the basic user. lets be honest, the every day common user is always going to go for these kinds of deals. macs may be better machines, but you have to pay that extra premium to get them. that should be readily admitted

 

[mikesk8]

Last time I checked this was a horrible comparison. Computers are not cars.

Every market is different. Trying to explain one by referencing another is as pointless as masturbating for world peace.

Its not about cars...its a bit more abstract...using some stereotypes, icons..

 

[bearbo]

6 years in IT and building Windows boxes.

don't even wave your IT title around me.. i have no respect for IT people i have yet to meet one IT person who I can say really know what s/he's doing. (i dont meant to say there aren't knowledgable ones out there, i just haven't met any)

(which is quite a nice comparision to our topic, i don't see decent IT ppl, some ppl dont see decent XP machine... while i'm sure both exist... what a strange world!)

happy weekend, to everyone

 

[840quadra]

don't even wave your IT title around me.. i have no respect for IT people i have yet to meet one IT person who I can say really know what s/he's doing. (i dont meant to say there aren't knowledgable ones out there, i just haven't met any)

(which is quite a nice comparision to our topic, i don't see decent IT ppl, some ppl dont see decent XP machine... while i'm sure both exist... what a strange world!)

happy weekend, to everyone

I agree, people shouldn't waive their titles around to give their posts more credit, however, this last post hardly makes me feel that your information is more credible.

(That wasn't meant to be disrespectful or a personal attack, just an observation, as well as the following.)

It makes it sound that you are disrespectful of someone until they prove themselves to you (your posts appear that way as well). That by itself is okay (I guess), however most people will not bother wasting their time.

 

[suneohair]

don't even wave your IT title around me.. i have no respect for IT people i have yet to meet one IT person who I can say really know what s/he's doing. (i dont meant to say there aren't knowledgable ones out there, i just haven't met any)

(which is quite a nice comparision to our topic, i don't see decent IT ppl, some ppl dont see decent XP machine... while i'm sure both exist... what a strange world!)

happy weekend, to everyone

I don't actually have an IT title. That just sums up what I did. If you would like me to say: I used Windows computers for a long time. I can do that too. IT is just a sweet way of summing that up.

I know Windows machines can be great. Never had viruses or major issues withmine. The occasiaonl spyware would pop in, but nothing serious. I think the issues in Windows are bit over exaggerated by Mac folks at times.

But, you have to remember that we are not representative of the mass population of computer users who are incapable of protecting their machine.

Which is the major disadvantage with a Windows computer. Most people can't properly maintain it. Whereas there isnt much maintenance on a Mac (right now at least). That is what Apple is marketing toward. The people who get burned with a virus or spyware bogging down their computer.

Have a good weekend.

 

[yellow]

I am an IT person and I definitely know what I am doing.

 

[suneohair]

I am an IT person and I definitely know what I am doing.

He has to have some way of belittling someone since he presents nothing of any use.