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What do you think of the condescending attitudes refered to in the origanal post?

  • They're unacceptable, If people have a problem with a post they shouldn't reply

    Votes: 36 46.8%
  • Their attitude is unacceptable but they should still tell people when their in the wrong

    Votes: 10 13.0%
  • Developers are right, users need told not to use betas.

    Votes: 31 40.3%

  • Total voters
    77
What are some of your apps?

Can't plug them here without breaking the advertising rule, but the company I work for develops business/enterprise level applications on a contract basis.

I've also contributed in the jailbreak scene as well with other bigger name developers. Nothing major or game breaking, just a contribution.
 

Even then from what I've heard they usually ignore bug reports and give no indication that they're actively working on them.
...

Not true. I have submitted two application bugs running under 7. I received one response indicating the bug, dialog text/box alignment, was a duplicate. Thats a pretty solid indication that Apple does NOT ignore bug reports. The other report has generated at least two requests for additional information, so "no indication they're actually working on them", is another inaccurate statement.
 
Hi,
I wanted to discuss something which has been bugging me for quite a while. Every time a distressed user asks for help with a beta release there always seems to be a developer who just wants to get at them and mock them for daring to try out a bit of software when their not a developer. I don't care if user testing is right or wrong, at the end of the day these people are your customers so I fail to see why developers feel the need to publicly mock distressed users when their already down. If you don't want to help fine, but don't mock them or make petty comments.

Just to be clear I am aware of the negative implications of users testing betas but that's not the issue I'm making, I just think that kicking someone when there down is wrong, you wouldn't do it face to face so don't do it here.


Thanks,
I am a Dev and i don't care who has the BETA on their devices but i have to say i am sick of the posts by people asking for the same help over and over again when it comes to problems they have had after installing the BETA! the one that got me was one guy who gave an app a bad review because it wouldn't work on his phone (tweetbot) i have no problem with people using the beta as long as they know how to fix it if they encounter a problem
also you don't have to have an app in the app store to be classed as a dev!!

----------

Ok, now we are getting somewhere...

So let me get this straight. A dude fenagles his way into iOS 7 then whines about his apps afterwords via the apps feedback?

Thats pretty low...

Edit: How widespread is this? Common or just a few here and there?

getting more and more common and really gets my goat
 
It's because developers feel like they're a part of a special club and everyone else is getting in without paying their dues.

No it's not, it's because we're sick and tired of the constant bitching from users who have installed software they shouldn't have on their devices and then whine because either

1) Their device doesn't work because it's not registered.

2) Their device crashes because of bugs in the software they shouldn't be using

3) Their favourite app doesn't work

and 4) Negative reviews left because of 3.

I have no problems with a non dev using beta software. Hell before I was developing seriously I used to beta test for Microsoft (now they always ignore your bug reports), but Apple do and can and do ban developers for illegally sharing their NDA'd firmware.

It's quite simple. There are two ways to have this beta legally.

1) Be a paid up iOS developer.

2) Receive it from Apple under the AppleSeed programme.

In both cases you have access to forums run by Apple who will take your feedback.
 
Ok, now we are getting somewhere...

So let me get this straight. A dude fenagles his way into iOS 7 then whines about his apps afterwords via the apps feedback?

Thats pretty low...

Edit: How widespread is this? Common or just a few here and there?

All too common and has been since iOS 3 beta 1.

----------

Why would anyone "pirate" an unstable Beta? That's analogous to stealing mouldy fish.

It is indeed. But it is freely available for download from non Apple websites. A quick google would prove this.
 
All too common and has been since iOS 3 beta 1.

----------



It is indeed. But it is freely available for download from non Apple websites. A quick google would prove this.

Naturally, but so what? Everything is pirate-able these days, but who is going to bother sticking with a pirated Beta, seriously, when iOS 7 will be availble TO ALL PEOPLE, FREE, when released? I didn't bother Googling - I can find anything, anywhere online, even things that have been offline for 5 years, and download them if I want - been doing it for years with cache tools :p

Lol.
 
I'm not a developer, but the reason this beta exists is for developers. If it was available to the public, then it's fine for everyone to complain. But it's not. It's available to developers only. If you are not a developer and you get the beta, do not complain. It's as simple as that. You know what you are getting yourself into.
 
I'm not a developer, but the reason this beta exists is for developers. If it was available to the public, then it's fine for everyone to complain. But it's not. It's available to developers only. If you are not a developer and you get the beta, do not complain. It's as simple as that. You know what you are getting yourself into.



Except that your assumption of "everybody who installs ios 7 that's not a dev must complain" is just wrong.
 
Seriously guys?

Basically some developers are mad at users who screw up their devices and come here asking for help?

How is that different to people complaining about the resistance of their devices after falling from a 5 story building? How is that different from people complaining about iPhones not being waterproof?

I know plenty of developers who doesn't give a dime about who installs the beta and how.

About apps not working under beta and receiving bad reviews, well... you're under the clock now. Couple of month till it is not the beta-status fault. I would seriously recommend to stop complaining about complains and start working.
 
About apps not working under beta and receiving bad reviews, well... you're under the clock now. Couple of month till it is not the beta-status fault. I would seriously recommend to stop complaining about complains and start working.

Do you know how absolutely ridiculous this statement is? In most cases updating an app for compatibility with iOS 7 will not require a monumental amount of effort. I am pretty sure apple will not even push updates until the OS is GM anyway, so for all anyone knows a lot of apps are ready to go right now.

Also I don't presume to know what type of job it is that you have, but I would hazard to guess that you don't live and breath it as you are suggesting the developers do! (Everyone has free time in their life to do things other than work.) -- The fact that you had time to post this insane comment is only proof of that, unless of course your job is a full-time forum troll. :)

Ease up, judging from past beta cycles apps will be updated, and ready to go on launch day, and if they are not then any negative rating an app gets will be earned.

As far as non devs installing the beta, well to each their own I say. I read the forums every day for the same reason most people watch NASCAR :) I want to see a wreck :D

I am rooting for the missed appointments, the dead batteries in the middle of an important call, and the loss of cherished photos of the people silly enough to use a beta as a daily driver. Does that make me a bad person, perhaps, but I know I am not alone.
 
I am rooting for the missed appointments, the dead batteries in the middle of an important call, and the loss of cherished photos of the people silly enough to use a beta as a daily driver. Does that make me a bad person, perhaps, but I know I am not alone.

Well that's just the kind of attitude we all need!
 
Do you know how absolutely ridiculous this statement is? In most cases updating an app for compatibility with iOS 7 will not require a monumental amount of effort. I am pretty sure apple will not even push updates until the OS is GM anyway, so for all anyone knows a lot of apps are ready to go right now.
.

not really the whole UI has changed so its time for all the devs to start thinking about UI changes themselves.

just an example: no more buttons so you need everything translated in more languages because the OS relies far more on text now and the overall look of current apps just does not work with iOS7 anymore. most look like u know what.
 
It's quite simple. There are two ways to have this beta legally.

1) Be a paid up iOS developer.

2) Receive it from Apple under the AppleSeed programme.

In both cases you have access to forums run by Apple who will take your feedback.

I understand what you're saying, but once you throw the word "legal" or "illegal" in there, you're playing in the complicated world of copyright law, and there's not enough case law on this issue to say whether upgrading via an .ipsw file in iTunes is illegal or not.

It's most definitely not a simple matter of "you aren't abiding by the Apple user agreement and thus it's piracy". I don't think it's wise to assume the parameters of legality are limited to those two instances.

If anything, copyright law jurisprudence has moved away from being a tool by which companies can enforce restrictive business models. The registered developer pay wall may be irrelevant to the analysis because ostensibly the fee is for a myriad of developer tools unrelated to the iOS beta. Things might be different if there were a NDA, or if the final iOS 7 release was a product that Apple charged for, but neither of these is the case.

In any event, it's enough of an unsettled area of law that you can't tell people they're doing something illegal by upgrading to the beta and do so with a straight face. And beyond that, this type of case will probably never reach a court because any case on point would involve a company coming down against a user of one of its products in a manner that would generate nothing but negative press.
 
just an example: no more buttons so you need everything translated in more languages because the OS relies far more on text now and the overall look of current apps just does not work with iOS7 anymore. most look like u know what.

Bad design decision on Apple's part, and I hope devs don't follow the bad example. I just tried switching to Japanese, and found some UI texts spilling out of their allotted spaces and doubling over other UI texts, because the words are much longer in Japanese than in English. No easy fixes for this, since words are words... Not like you can just make up new short words to fit the space!
 
I've added a poll, please vote about what you think of the attitudes, not wether user testing is right or wrong.
 
Why would anyone "pirate" an unstable Beta? That's analogous to stealing mouldy fish.

Because there are people who want to play around with IOS7 before it is released, and don't want to fork out the $99?

They can't wait those months, and simply want to get a taste of what IOS7 is all about and what it can do.
 
I understand what you're saying, but once you throw the word "legal" or "illegal" in there, you're playing in the complicated world of copyright law, and there's not enough case law on this issue to say whether upgrading via an .ipsw file in iTunes is illegal or not.

It's most definitely not a simple matter of "you aren't abiding by the Apple user agreement and thus it's piracy". I don't think it's wise to assume the parameters of legality are limited to those two instances.

If anything, copyright law jurisprudence has moved away from being a tool by which companies can enforce restrictive business models. The registered developer pay wall may be irrelevant to the analysis because ostensibly the fee is for a myriad of developer tools unrelated to the iOS beta. Things might be different if there were a NDA, or if the final iOS 7 release was a product that Apple charged for, but neither of these is the case.

In any event, it's enough of an unsettled area of law that you can't tell people they're doing something illegal by upgrading to the beta and do so with a straight face. And beyond that, this type of case will probably never reach a court because any case on point would involve a company coming down against a user of one of its products in a manner that would generate nothing but negative press.

But it is under an NDA. Screenshots or information about it is not suppose to be shared outside of the Apple developer forums as far as I'm aware.
 
I've added a poll, please vote about what you think of the attitudes, not wether user testing is right or wrong.

None of the poll options fit how I feel. I think this issue is too complicated to be summed up into a poll.

I think there are people on both extremes -- users who come here without doing any research and feel entitled to get the answers spoon fed to them, and devs who are overly obnoxious about telling people not to use beta. Both extremes are annoying. But there are many possible ways of reacting on both sides of the issue. I think both sides have a point. I'm a non-dev using the beta,so obiviously I'm not about to tell EVERY non-dev not to use the beta. But when I see a user who obviously has no idea how to deal with a beta, I suggest that they go back to iOS 6 and stay there.
 
Last edited:
Hi,
I wanted to discuss something which has been bugging me for quite a while. Every time a distressed user asks for help with a beta release there always seems to be a developer who just wants to get at them and mock them for daring to try out a bit of software when their not a developer. I don't care if user testing is right or wrong, at the end of the day these people are your customers so I fail to see why developers feel the need to publicly mock distressed users when their already down. If you don't want to help fine, but don't mock them or make petty comments.

Just to be clear I am aware of the negative implications of users testing betas but that's not the issue I'm making, I just think that kicking someone when there down is wrong, you wouldn't do it face to face so don't do it here.

Thanks,

Without the right context, it's hard to tell who is in the right or wrong. Though the general trend I have observed is that it typically takes 2 hands to clap.

For one, if you have a problem, I think the least you could do is to adopt a respectful and diplomatic tone when requesting for help. If you are not seeking help from the official Apple forums, chances are the poster is using a bootleg copy of the beta to begin with.

While it is true that it really is none of my business, the reality is that such acerbic and inappropriate comments tend to disrupt the harmony of the forum. Asking everyone to just ignore it is just easier said than done.

That said, if you have an issue with an app acting up, the best solution is usually to email the creators directly (because they are probably in the best position to help you). However, because the problem is likely caused by IOS7 screwing up some of your APIs, the reality is that there isn't much that can be done until IOS7 is released and the developers release an update for that. So complaining still doesn't do anything to improve the current situation.

To me, this isn't a clear black-and-white situation. What I feel is that people just need to learn to get along and act more civil with one another.
 
But it is under an NDA. Screenshots or information about it is not suppose to be shared outside of the Apple developer forums as far as I'm aware.

While true, that doesn't actually address the issue. Joe Average didn't sign an NDA saying that he will not put iOS7 on his device, the Dev that leaked the IPSW did. The Dev would be the one at fault and it is pretty murky as far as the legality of actually using the leaked IPSW.
 
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