That's where our recollections differ. As far as I can remember, from at least iOS 5 on and possibly from earlier, you had to register your UDID in order to install the beta. But there was always a workaround.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Developers attitudes towards user testing
- Thread starter DanR16
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
That's where our recollections differ. As far as I can remember, from at least iOS 5 on and possibly from earlier, you had to register your UDID in order to install the beta. But there was always a workaround.
I am a developer, I am not registered in apples developer program, I do not have iOS7, I do not own an iPhone. I am also a alpha/beta tester for android Roms.
First off, the issue isn't non developers using the beta, the issue is people complaining that feature XYZ or app XYZ is not working with the beta. This is entirely useless.
The is a Developer Beta, not a public or consumer Beta. The whole point to having the Beta available is so that developers can test their applications in a iOS7 environment and have it ready for public consumption on day 1 of iOS7 public release. It is not for the purpose of finding bugs within iOS7 itself, although these can be submitted for apples use as well.
Many of these official bug reports will also go ignored unless the iOS7 development team is unaware of said bug. The development team would already be going through the internal bug tracker. Many of the bugs submitted or complained about on these forums would either be fixed already for the next beta, be caused by an incompatible app (which again, is the reason the developer beta is available to developers), an incomplete feature, or just be useless due to some other variable. Also, while on this note, its a waste of resources to actively find every non legitimate iOS7 user and lock them out of using it. Basically, kudos to you for getting around the protection, but your experience with the product isn't a useful situation for apple and you will not receive support.
Asking for help or complaining on here is also useless, not only because of what I mentioned above, but also because the only reason a person would have to ask for help is not to help any developers (simply because it doesn't, bug may already be fixed, etc, see above) but to help them continue to use the iOS7 beta. The best advice for anyone using the iOS7 beta and experiencing an issue stopping them from using the device how they want to is to roll back to iOS6 as it is a finished product, Jare already mentioned this.
It's like having your nan (or anyone else) knit a new jumper for you, and before its finished you try it on. While trying it on you discover that one of the arms is missing off the jumper. While you can point out or complain that the arm is missing, the best answer to that is that its not finished and will have an arm when it is finished. Your options are then as follows: keep using the jumper with one arm until its finished and deal with it as nothing can be done until then; sticky tape an arm onto the jumper (don't complain when that sticky tape falls off though); or continue using your old jumper, which still works perfectly well as a jumper, until a time where the new jumper is finished and in a usable state. Which one is the best scenario and outcome? Of course using your old jumper is the best answer if you want the most comfort and uptime.
For people complaining that developers are acting as elitists for saying that it is a developer beta and they should not be using it should read this post again. End users are not the target audience for this beta. Developers are not paying to have early access to this beta, they pay to be able to develop and publish/submit their applications with apples guidelines and having access to the next release helps ensure that their applications will continue to run and that apple will have support from developers and third party applications at the time of public release. The beta is not to make developers feel entitled or special about having access to the beta, it is to allow developers to test and update/develop their application to make sure it works on the iOS7 framework so that it is ready for the time that iOS7 does actually release to the general public. If this developer beta was not available for them, then all your complaints of XYZ does not work with the final build of iOS7 would be 10x the amount and would also be valid. As of now though, these reports are not valid, or useful no matter how bad that makes you feel.
First off, the issue isn't non developers using the beta, the issue is people complaining that feature XYZ or app XYZ is not working with the beta. This is entirely useless.
The is a Developer Beta, not a public or consumer Beta. The whole point to having the Beta available is so that developers can test their applications in a iOS7 environment and have it ready for public consumption on day 1 of iOS7 public release. It is not for the purpose of finding bugs within iOS7 itself, although these can be submitted for apples use as well.
Many of these official bug reports will also go ignored unless the iOS7 development team is unaware of said bug. The development team would already be going through the internal bug tracker. Many of the bugs submitted or complained about on these forums would either be fixed already for the next beta, be caused by an incompatible app (which again, is the reason the developer beta is available to developers), an incomplete feature, or just be useless due to some other variable. Also, while on this note, its a waste of resources to actively find every non legitimate iOS7 user and lock them out of using it. Basically, kudos to you for getting around the protection, but your experience with the product isn't a useful situation for apple and you will not receive support.
Asking for help or complaining on here is also useless, not only because of what I mentioned above, but also because the only reason a person would have to ask for help is not to help any developers (simply because it doesn't, bug may already be fixed, etc, see above) but to help them continue to use the iOS7 beta. The best advice for anyone using the iOS7 beta and experiencing an issue stopping them from using the device how they want to is to roll back to iOS6 as it is a finished product, Jare already mentioned this.
It's like having your nan (or anyone else) knit a new jumper for you, and before its finished you try it on. While trying it on you discover that one of the arms is missing off the jumper. While you can point out or complain that the arm is missing, the best answer to that is that its not finished and will have an arm when it is finished. Your options are then as follows: keep using the jumper with one arm until its finished and deal with it as nothing can be done until then; sticky tape an arm onto the jumper (don't complain when that sticky tape falls off though); or continue using your old jumper, which still works perfectly well as a jumper, until a time where the new jumper is finished and in a usable state. Which one is the best scenario and outcome? Of course using your old jumper is the best answer if you want the most comfort and uptime.
For people complaining that developers are acting as elitists for saying that it is a developer beta and they should not be using it should read this post again. End users are not the target audience for this beta. Developers are not paying to have early access to this beta, they pay to be able to develop and publish/submit their applications with apples guidelines and having access to the next release helps ensure that their applications will continue to run and that apple will have support from developers and third party applications at the time of public release. The beta is not to make developers feel entitled or special about having access to the beta, it is to allow developers to test and update/develop their application to make sure it works on the iOS7 framework so that it is ready for the time that iOS7 does actually release to the general public. If this developer beta was not available for them, then all your complaints of XYZ does not work with the final build of iOS7 would be 10x the amount and would also be valid. As of now though, these reports are not valid, or useful no matter how bad that makes you feel.
Last edited:
You, and most the other devs, are missing our non-dev point...What HARM befalls you that a non-dev uses the beta? What harm befalls ANYONE that a non-dev whines about an unfinished product that they shouldnt have to begin with?
Unless I am missing something, I dont see why benefit it is to a dev to come on here and whine about whiners.
I havent been following closely, but I have YET to see a dev SHOW how this affects him negatively.
If I am wrong, then please explain.
The harm happens when the non-developer posts negative reviews in the App Store based on bugs which occur with early developer previews of the OS.
Ok, now we are getting somewhere...
So let me get this straight. A dude fenagles his way into iOS 7 then whines about his apps afterwords via the apps feedback?
Thats pretty low...
Edit: How widespread is this? Common or just a few here and there?
That I can see being a problem, however on this thread developers are generally not complaining about that. All I see is them complaining about the non-devs complaints. If the people that are posting bug threads or threads seeking help with ios 7 are actively going around posting negative reviews of apps before they are ready for ios 7, then yes devs should shut those down quickly. However, most devs here are complaining that they have to "babysit" non-devs, answer inane questions, or just even seeing threads that they deem pointless. And I think that stems from the devs' attitudes and not actual "harm" being done to them.
Like someone said earlier - it is completely okay for devs to not look at threads that they deem useless, and no one is forcing them to answer questions. If it comes to it, us non-devs can help each other with the issues if devs are too spiteful to help. It's just completely unnecessary - the amount of venom and distaste that devs show towards non-devs.
Truth is, both parties can coexist here. Devs have their own dedicated forums, so it's not like they have no private space to communicate without non techies. And the rest of us get along here just fine.
Having to address complaints and/or unsolicited bug reports from an early beta operating system thins support and development resources.
Then the developer runs the risk of being deemed unresponsive. Refer to this thread for examples: http://forums.adobe.com/message/5434435
It is about the bruised egos of many developers. That is the bottom line. And you have seen the evidence of the bruised egos in this thread.
I can't say how common it is as there's no way to search, but there are examples. Look through one of the threads here which discuss broken apps and then search those reviews on the App Store. They're there.
That is the major issue. Bad feedback is pointless as it can't be fixed until iOS7 is released. Bad feedback also leads to a lower overall score. This can push away new buyers and inhibits the income of that program. Contrary to popular belief, developers are not rich and do need what income they can get.
For others, it clutters up the forum and makes for a lesser experience on these forums, many don't want to have to scroll past 50 threads all complaining about something useless. It makes it a chore and an unpleasant experience for everyone. Sure people can talk about the iOS7 beta and their personal experience, but do it in an existing thread for that topic instead of creating a new thread. A great forum is one that is clean, easy to navigate and keeps the user coming back, but a forum is a community effort, it requires input from everyone to keep it to way and to keep it a friendly place.
No one should be talking down to others no matter the situation, but if someone says they found a bug, expects a fix for it, gets a response such as 'its a beta, it can't be fixed, either roll back or live with it' then that is the most appropriate response to the question and to help the end user as its the only viable solution as is the nature of a private beta.
Seems devs should leave it in the app store rather than come here and whine about whiners. If someone pesters them via app store, then keep it there. I hate seeing "devs" and wannabes come here and belittle everyone that asks a question. I, for one, dont click on threads that are obviously plagued by the uninformed user.
Apple should not have to do anything just because people don't understand, why should they have to use up resources for something that shouldn't be happening in the first place? Its not apples responsibility as it is a Developer Beta, not for consumers. People need to take responsibility for their own actions instead of using ignorance as an excuse.
Apple takes 30% of developers' money. It's in Apple's interest to properly address bad reviews if those reviews lead to lost sales.
Siri was launched 'in beta'.
With Maps they didn't include that tag. Most folks that are tech followers understood that as a fresh product it would be buggy but most folks aren't like that and so they whined. Which is why Tim Cook took the sword and apologized for Maps not being up to folks expectations, more because Apple failed to set proper ones, and vowed that Apple was and would continue to actively improve things.
Perhaps if they had put the 'beta' tag on Maps. Then again it didn't really stop the whining about Siri so I suppose it's really moot.
I agree, but people shouldn't be abused or anything just because they don't act like the rest of the internet. Ignorance shouldn't have to be catered for or the responsibility be put on someone else, its quite unfair. Its the sad state of the internet today.
True, but that particular hole in the review system only exists due to peoples ignorance in judging the Developer Beta as a final release or even a Consumer Preview. There would be no issue if the public weren't actually using the Developer Beta like they currently are and like it was intended.
Lost theoretical profit is also less important than actual expenses of resources (time/money/etc) to fix this created issue.
You nailed it. This is about giving Developers the advance time to help test for bugs AND to update their apps so that once iOS 7 is live to the world they don't have folks whining, posting reviews etc about how this or that feature doesn't work under iOS7 blah blah.
No serious developer worth his salt is going to have time to hover around on forums, arguing the toss about who likes or dislikes iOS with random strangers.
Developers DEVELOP - it's a time-consuming job, and doesn't leave too much time for small talk. If you've been coding all day long for a company, I doubt you'd want to take it home with you and waffle about it on forums with people you don't know. Most SERIOUS developers aren't on Macrumors unless in the development sub-forum, I am pretty sure of that.
Developer or not, there's ALWAYS going to be people who want to be right and cause an argument, which is where the gift of ignoring comes into play - ignore them and focus on the polite people
In and of itself, none. But no one is complaining about that.
They are complaining about folks posting huge threads calling out apps that don't work under iOS 7 as if the developers aren't doing anything about the issue. Of course we know our apps likely don't work, we haven't release an update for iOS 7 yet. But that's a detail that folks seem to be missing.
Just like they are missing that Apple has warned, if you are getting the software through proper channels, that many apps will fail because they haven't been updated, your battery life etc will possibly be a total joke and so on. And you should NOT be using this pre release and thus not supported software on your daily use devices.
Like the person too lazy to back up their stuff who then loses 5000 photos when their iphone goes in the pool, if you load the software when and how you shouldn't be, you screwed yourself.
So why are you whining about what iOS 7 did to your whatever, how apps that haven't been updated for iOS 7 aren't working etc.
THAT is what we are complaining about. You were smart enough to know you should back up, you were smart enough to figure out how to install the software. But you aren't being smart enough to understand the state of the game.
----------
That too.
it hurts the apps, particularly in the star rating when folks do this. Apple is not pushing out iOS 7 supporting updates even when we submit them because iOS 7 is not out yet. So it's not really our fault that the app doesn't yet work. And it shouldn't be an issue because the end users shouldn't be using iOS 7 anyway.
As a fellow developer if I see these kind of reviews I downrate them. And I send feedback to Apple hoping for them to be pulled.
----------
But if they don't then they are demonized for not caring about the state of their apps. When in fact they are trying to focus on updating their apps for when those users are supposed to have access to iOS 7 and iOS 7 supporting versions of the app.
----------
I would say that since it is just for Developers perhaps they need a better way to police that only developers are downloading it. Not just the whole UDID thing but requiring Apple ID log ins, answering account questions that only the developer would know, verifying the location of the device is at least the same country as the developer account etc.
Also better vetting of accounts that, while paid up, have never submitted an app despite being part of the program for years, multiple accounts etc.
Surely no one expects developers to answer app support questions on MacRumors? Some devs do, and it's nice when they do, but when people post issues with apps here on MacRumors, they are just looking to share their experiences with other users.
Umm whose support and development resources are MR members depleting may I ask? Since Apple doesn't cater to anyone who has ios 7, and developers don't have the responsibility to and should not on this forum, it seems like we're all just answering each other's questions. I haven't seen anyone here demanding developers to fix anything instantly. I see a lot of unresponsive app reports, sure, but that's our way of sharing information with each other. It's actually helpful knowing which apps are running on ios 7 and which aren't. And as for your link to the offsite - MR members aren't responsible for that, if a specific customer is angry with a specific developer, then that's between them. But I haven't seen anything that drastic in this community.*
See, that's the thing. I do understand that if users take the liberty to rate an app badly because it doesn't function well on a beta, then that's something that they need to control in the app store, because stupidity seems to always prevail. However, I just now looked down the threads on this forum, and there's only a few at best that talks about failing apps. The most notable being the compilation of app failures. And the purpose of that thread is for everyone to post their experiences and see which apps do and do not work on the beta. And what's wrong with that? It's sharing information, letting people know what to expect and maybe even help deter people from upgrading if they have something essential that doesn't yet work on ios 7. It was never intended as a list of shame to criticize the developers for not working hard enough, it's simply to help each other.
Gogurt below agrees with me
I think I know the threads you're talking about. Big long discussions about what's working and what's not. But I don't think they're for the purpose of "calling out" the apps that don't work, or criticizing them. Rather, I think the purpose of those threads is to warn us non-devs that if we insist on using iOS 7, we're going to lose the following apps (for now).
EDIT: aimee.elizabeth said what I wanted to say better than I did. Read the comment above mine.
Last edited:
Actually I didn't assume anything, you brought up the MacRumors/MacDeveloper line, and I brought up that one. It wasn't directed at you.
----------
No serious developer worth his salt is going to have time to hover around on forums, arguing the toss about who likes or dislikes iOS with random strangers.
Developers DEVELOP - it's a time-consuming job, and doesn't leave too much time for small talk. If you've been coding all day long for a company, I doubt you'd want to take it home with you and waffle about it on forums with people you don't know. Most SERIOUS developers aren't on Macrumors unless in the development sub-forum, I am pretty sure of that.
Developer or not, there's ALWAYS going to be people who want to be right and cause an argument, which is where the gift of ignoring comes into play - ignore them and focus on the polite people
Developers are people too. I for one come on here to read the threads in the MacBook Pro forums and the iOS forums. Just because I work 40 hour weeks coding doesn't mean I have "no time" to browse around on MacRumors.