Do you like the MacOS Ventura System settings? [MERGED]

[sdf]

The Mac interface just makes sense at least to me, but turning my Mac into a phone OS does not work for me and if Apple ever does change the MacOS so that it literally becomes iOS that will be when I get off the Apple train.

Changes can be positive, negative or lateral. Lateral is actually worth doing if it makes the Mac easier for iOS users. There are more of them now. Be careful about getting upset at movements towards iOS because they're movements to iOS. If they're positive or even lateral they should be welcomed.

I think System Settings is going to be a positive move in the long term, but it's unfinished. Splitting the panes into seven groups is worse than not splitting them at all, since the meanings of the groups aren't clear. And it's just buggy at times. If they could fix the grouping and the bugs I think this would be a really good change. I don't know why they didn't finish this. They're so close. As is, it just feels bad.

Something people don't appreciate is how much of a difference there can be at the margins of something. For me, Windows is full of things that would be great with another week of improvements that just never comes. And I don't expect it ever will. So instead of being almost as good as Mac, it falls under both Mac and Linux.

 

[PauloSera]

Yeah it's fine. It will take time to get used to, but that's fine.

It's not nearly as bad as I thought it would be based on the hysterical crying I've seen over it.

 

[dogface1956]

Changes can be positive, negative or lateral. Lateral is actually worth doing if it makes the Mac easier for iOS users. There are more of them now. Be careful about getting upset at movements towards iOS because they're movements to iOS. If they're positive or even lateral they should be welcomed.

I think System Settings is going to be a positive move in the long term, but it's unfinished. Splitting the panes into seven groups is worse than not splitting them at all, since the meanings of the groups aren't clear. And it's just buggy at times. If they could fix the grouping and the bugs I think this would be a really good change. I don't know why they didn't finish this. They're so close. As is, it just feels bad.

Something people don't appreciate is how much of a difference there can be at the margins of something. For me, Windows is full of things that would be great with another week of improvements that just never comes. And I don't expect it ever will. So instead of being almost as good as Mac, it falls under both Mac and Linux.

If the changes make sense and work within the context of MacOS then I am fine with that, if the changes are made just to make MacOS look like iOS I am not OK with that. The System Settings is an example that because it works OK on the iPhone (though I don't really think it does, as there are just too many different settings and they are spread out all over the place) it is not necessarily the best solution for the Mac.

I can and will adapt to the new System Settings and I am sure that as I use them more I will start to remember where everything is located, but I'm also willing to put the time into learning because I make my living on the Mac, but I just don't see the improvement over the old System Preferences in other words why the change if it is not clearly better. When I first saw Steve Jobs demo OS X I could clearly see, where it was better then System 9, even though it was more promise, than reality, I was eager to start using OS X and when Apple shipped the Beta which could not even print, I snapped it up and never looked back. But I am concerned about Apple trying to make Mac OS into a copy of iOS, I don't see any promise or future there.

I also feel that the old System Preferences are not perfect, that for new users and casual users can have a hard time finding things, but my wife who is a casual user is having a really hard time with the new System Settings and wants me to move her computer back to Monterey (and no she could care less about what is under the hood) she just wants to be able to do the stuff she wants to do on the computer, like surf the web, pay the bills, communicate with friends and family and do her quilt stuff.

 

[jgbr]

A point seems to be missed here by those demanding change is just accepted. There is a difference between changing something for changes sake versus identifying a problem, trialing and developing solutions and deploying a superior outcome to the original. What has become frustrating is the unnecessary tinkering with Mac OS when people are looking for maximum productivity and stability. Yes, there is innovation and problem solving but the benchmark question is: what are you bringing that is truly new and beneficial to the user? These forums are littered with complaints of too rushed releases, long held bugs, and so on–identifying people didn't want a new system preferences but other things. Some here moan that people keep going on about certain OSX releases but there is a reason for that!! A lot of Apple releases have felt like tinkering and redresses, while plastering over long held problems-system preferences wasn't one.

 

[bsmr]

No - I hate them!

 

[SaMMyS]

In fact I think the new system setting introduced in Windows 10 is great. It's similar to the old macOS Preference app, but more efficient with sidebar design in second layer. It's visually aesthetic and meantime easy to use.

 

[fisherking]

A point seems to be missed here by those demanding change is just accepted. There is a difference between changing something for changes sake versus identifying a problem, trialing and developing solutions and deploying a superior outcome to the original. What has become frustrating is the unnecessary tinkering with Mac OS when people are looking for maximum productivity and stability. Yes, there is innovation and problem solving but the benchmark question is: what are you bringing that is truly new and beneficial to the user? These forums are littered with complaints of too rushed releases, long held bugs, and so on–identifying people didn't want a new system preferences but other things. Some here moan that people keep going on about certain OSX releases but there is a reason for that!! A lot of Apple releases have felt like tinkering and redresses, while plastering over long held problems-system preferences wasn't one.

here's another point; your opinion is valid, but no more so than those who like (or have accepted) the new system settings. your opinion is just your opinion.

people act like some apple techs got together on a tuesday, opened a couple of beers, and redesigned system preferences, which were approved on wednesday. more likely scenario: it was developed over a long period of time, and everyone at apple who's involved in the OS work signed off on it.

apple likes it. i like it. lots of people like it. and some don't... just like everything else with the OS. nothing new in that.

personally, am not 'demanding change', but always hoping for improvement. 'settings' seems to be, at least, on the right path.

 

[vddobrev]

here's another point; your opinion is valid, but no more so than those who like (or have accepted) the new system settings. your opinion is just your opinion.

people act like some apple techs got together on a tuesday, opened a couple of beers, and redesigned system preferences, which were approved on wednesday. more likely scenario: it was developed over a long period of time, and everyone at apple who's involved in the OS work signed off on it.

apple likes it. i like it. lots of people like it. and some don't... just like everything else with the OS. nothing new in that.

personally, am not 'demanding change', but always hoping for improvement.settings' seems to be, at least, on the right path.

But here is another point:
1. Iam askiing you for a second time - what's in it for you to repeat over and over in this thread that you like the new settings app and to come after anyone who does not? I am tired of reading your point, and you made it clear. It is enough. So again, are you being paid for doing this??? I am genuinely following this thread, and you have the most posts in it... seriously, what's in it for you?
2. Yes it does look like they got on Tuesday and delivered it on Wednesday... Displays icon is a sun? There are so many better visual representations for display... Login items is in General, and not under user, who logs in?
3. You sure apple likes it? How do yo know, are you on their paycheck?
4. If you are not demanding change, then why defend it? How did you determine the right path, and anyone who objects it is not on the right path? And if you are hoping for improvement, what improvement did you get from the new settings app. I want to hear real examples, not "I got used to it" and you wil too, oooh, and apple can do what they want. Be real - what do you think is better in the new settings app, real examples.

Seriously, I am tired of reading your same post over and over again repeated to whoever oposes your opinion. You stated yours, time and again, be courteous, let others state their opinions.

 

[fisherking]

But here is another point:
1. Iam askiing you for a second time - what's in it for you to repeat over and over in this thread that you like the new settings app and to come after anyone who does not? I am tired of reading your point, and you made it clear. It is enough. So again, are you being paid for doing this??? I am genuinely following this thread, and you have the most posts in it... seriously, what's in it for you?
2. Yes it does look like they got on Tuesday and delivered it on Wednesday... Displays icon is a sun? There are so many better visual representations for display... Login items is in General, and not under user, who logs in?
3. You sure apple likes it? How do yo know, are you on their paycheck?
4. If you are not demanding change, then why defend it? How did you determine the right path, and anyone who objects it is not on the right path? And if you are hoping for improvement, what improvement did you get from the new settings app. I want to hear real examples, not "I got used to it" and you wil too, oooh, and apple can do what they want. Be real - what do you think is better in the new settings app, real examples.

Seriously, I am tired of reading your same post over and over again repeated to whoever oposes your opinion. You stated yours, time and again, be courteous, let others state their opinions.

how is it okay for you to repeat the same things, but i can't? and i am not telling anyone anything about 'right' or 'wrong' paths; i'm merely pointing out that many people like the new settings, and, that, either way, this is how it is now. just stating 2 simple facts.

if you think apple doesn't put time and effort into their work.. i have a bridge to sell you. and i am 100% sure that settings will remain, hopefully evolve, and be with us... for some time to come.

will let it go now, because, as you yourself put it: "I am tired of reading your point" 🙄

 

[vddobrev]

how is it okay for you to repeat the same things, but i can't? and i am not telling anyone anything about 'right' or 'wrong' paths; i'm merely pointing out that many people like the new settings, and, that, either way, this is how it is now. just stating 2 simple facts.

if you think apple doesn't put time and effort into their work.. i have a bridge to sell you. and i am 100% sure that settings will remain, hopefully evolve, and be with us... for some time to come.

will let it go now, because, as you yourself put it: "I am tired of reading your point" 🙄

Count your post in this thread, and count mine against your mumbo-jumbo... you will see exactly two post of mine. And that's it, I am done with you, since you don't get the point. So let it be, peace.

Edit: and you did not address any of my questions... don't sell me bridges, prove with examples, like I asked you.

 

[fisherking]

Count your post in this thread, and count mine against your mumbo-jumbo... you will see exactly two post of mine. And that's it, I am done with you, since you don't get the point. So let it be, peace.

Edit: and you did not address any of my questions... don't sell me bridges, prove with examples, like I asked you.

i am not obligated to prove anything to you. besides, you've already made up your mind.

still, here are some general facts:

many people on this forum like the new settings. some (i watched this early in the betas) were unsure, but got to like it. some admitted they'd get used to it. and some whine endlessly because they personally don't like it.

some months from now, we'll all just be using settings, and (hopefully) focused on other 'crises'.

your opinions about 'good' design obviously differ from apple's ventura team. but it's their OS, so... they win.

you and i are not going to agree on anything here today, but... mumbo jumbo? if you think that applies to my opinions, i'd say we're both spouting mumbo jumbo ☺️

 

[vddobrev]

i am not obligated to prove anything to you. besides, you've already made up your mind.

still, here are some general facts:

many people on this forum like the new settings. some (i watched this early in the betas) were unsure, but got to like it. some admitted they'd get used to it. and some whine endlessly because they personally don't like it.

some months from now, we'll all just be using settings, and (hopefully) focused on other 'crises'.

your opinions about 'good' design obviously differ from apple's ventura team. but it's their OS, so... they win.

you and i are not going to agree on anything here today, but... mumbo jumbo? if you think that applies to my opinions, i'd say we're both spouting mumbo jumbo ☺️

Good. You can't even capitalize the letter of a new sentence, or even put punctuations when you write... so there goes your attention to details credentials.
You are not obliged to prove to me anything, but I am yet to read a single example of yours why settings app is better for you personally, like state it in your own usage and examples, not some generalized statements.
And I don't care if my opinion is different from the Ventura team (if such exists... are you part of it???). Yes, it is their OS, is it yours?
You have a problem of admitting that you are coming after every comment on this thread that is different from yours. Why not just read everyone's comments? You stated yours, why repeat over and over?

 

[dogface1956]

Good. You can't even capitalize the letter of a new sentence, or even put punctuations when you write... so there goes your attention to details credentials.
You are not obliged to prove to me anything, but I am yet to read a single example of yours why settings app is better for you personally, like state it in your own usage and examples, not some generalized statements.
And I don't care if my opinion is different from the Ventura team (if such exists... are you part of it???). Yes, it is their OS, is it yours?
You have a problem of admitting that you are coming after every comment on this thread that is different from yours. Why not just read everyone's comments? You stated yours, why repeat over and over?

Don't try to get any reply from fisherking, he acts like he has a personal stake in Ventura. I am surprised he has not brought up the under the hood improvements to you, that seems to be his go to reason for upgrading to Ventura, does not matter that System Settings is not an under the hood improvement, but a change in the interface. I am with you the System Settings is a mess, but Apple is not going to go back so will have to get used to it, but if Apple keeps heading in the direction of making Mac OS look like iOS at some point I will be moving on from Apple. I have started to check out some on the Linux distros in case some time in the future Apple forces me to move on. I have been using Macs since 1984 and don't want to change platforms, but I really am worried about the Apple continued push to make Mac OS like iOS. I have a Mac Pro that I replaced with the Mac Studio Ultra that I am thinking of setting up with some of the Linux distros to see if I can move my work flow over.

 

[fisherking]

Don't try to get any reply from fisherking, he acts like he has a personal stake in Ventura. I am surprised he has not brought up the under the hood improvements to you, that seems to be his go to reason for upgrading to Ventura, does not matter that System Settings is not an under the hood improvement, but a change in the interface. I am with you the System Settings is a mess, but Apple is not going to go back so will have to get used to it, but if Apple keeps heading in the direction of making Mac OS look like iOS at some point I will be moving on from Apple. I have started to check out some on the Linux distros in case some time in the future Apple forces me to move on. I have been using Macs since 1984 and don't want to change platforms, but I really am worried about the Apple continued push to make Mac OS like iOS. I have a Mac Pro that I replaced with the Mac Studio Ultra that I am thinking of setting up with some of the Linux distros to see if I can move my work flow over.

what a crazy idea, to be primarily concerned with how an operating system behaves... over how system settings looks.

i use my mac to work (and play), and that's what matters most to me. and anyone who would switch platforms because they don't like the new system settings (really, how much time does anyone spend there?) should switch platforms, so we can get back to discussion, and support, on the forum.

apple is not going back because it undoubtedly believes it's taking valuable steps forward. and that's what interests me most; moving forward. am having a great experience on my macs, and am grateful for that 👍

 

[jgbr]

I think its quite buggy too, search isn't great. I've also noticed system slow downs when using it and then when you close it, or click out, speeds up again. I've had random lock ups of finder when using it too and had to force quit system settings.

It's also very illogically laid out. I agree that the height and lack of use of width is really unhelpful and it looks messy, with things hard to find. I have to read what something is a lot more and 'hunt for it'.

It was far clearer the old way - and faster. This is important as I am sure-like many-I'd rather get on with what I am using my Mac for rather than playing 'hunt the setting.'

See - this has introduced more bugs that now need to be fixed when it need not have and there were other things to be looked out.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

It's also very illogically laid out. I agree that the height and not use of width is really unhelpful and it looks messy with things hard to find. I have to read what something is a lot more and 'hunt for it'. It was far clearer the old way - and faster.

This is a prime example of Apple taking the easy avenue. I believe the direction they're aiming for makes sense, but the execution is so lacklustre. Rather than taking the time to adjust the width of the window to take advantage of the Mac's screen estate - like the previous System Settings - they literally just used the iPadOS window and replaced the settings themselves. The laziness is almost as laughable as SwiftUI performance.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

and that's what interests me most; moving forward. am having a great experience on my macs, and am grateful for that 👍

Wonderful.

But this only reiterates the point that I made recently, that there is a critical difference between objective and subjective observations.

By your logic, you are happy to "move forward" (that is you are happy to have change) at the expense of improvement. And so far, you've yet to make any clear arguments for how System Settings improves on Preferences other than it's new and it looks different.

To be perfectly clear - and I made this comment earlier - I do believe Apple has the right direction set, but it's the way that they've gone about it that's rubbed people the wrong way.

For instance (to scale):

The sidebar icons are considerably less legible. They're now about 25% the size of the System Preference icons, the use of 'app icon' graphics makes absolutely no sense when they're not applications, and some of the graphics themselves have questionable references (A sun for Displays? A Siri icon that looks like a weird blob?)

The categorisation of many settings doesn't make sense; login items in General, for instance?

Two kinds of dropdown menu? Yeah sure why not! 😂

Advanced menu brings up a secondary window, whereas other Advanced/sub-menu buttons take you to other areas of the Settings? Well thought out. Clearly "moving forward".

Toggles now come in different sizes? But I thought Apple was aiming for continuity with iOS/iPadOS? 🧐

But maybe you're right... These are just "opinions"...

 

[fisherking]

But this only reiterates the point that I made recently, that there is critical a difference between objective and subjective observations.

yes. objective observations are based on fact. not your opinion of the facts.

By your logic, you are happy to "move forward" (that is you are happy to have change) at the expense of improvement.

But maybe you're right... These are just "opinions"...

i have never said i am happy to move forward 'at the expense of improvement'. nor would i say that...

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

yes. objective observations are based on fact. not your opinion of the facts.

Precisely, and you have yet to share these factual observations.

i have never said i am happy to move forward 'at the expense of improvement'. nor would i say that...

But clearly you are, because of the above point.

 

[fisherking]

Precisely, and you have yet to share these factual observations.


But clearly you are, because of the above point.

you're now making an assumption, based on my statement; an assumption, like an opinion, is not a fact.

here's some actual facts:

settings replaces preferences. many people here seem to like it. all of us have to accept it; apple doesn't design things based on the opinions of people on the macrumors forums.

i personally think it can, and will, improve, but i find it to be a more mature, logical app than what it replaces.

one more fact: arguing your point endlessly doesn't mean others will suddenly agree with you (just ask me 😉)

 

[Jack Neill]

I put 13.0 on my M1 air and system settings has no lag. My 2017 MBP 14,3 has considerable lag with it. Noting else about 13.0 is slow on it either. Just system settings.

 

[jgbr]

I put 13.0 on my M1 air and system settings has no lag. My 2017 MBP 14,3 has considerable lag with it. Noting else about 13.0 is slow on it either. Just system settings.

Yes I've noticed this too. How odd it impacts intel based Macs.

Wonderful.

But this only reiterates the point that I made recently, that there is a critical difference between objective and subjective observations.

By your logic, you are happy to "move forward" (that is you are happy to have change) at the expense of improvement. And so far, you've yet to make any clear arguments for how System Settings improves on Preferences other than it's new and it looks different.

To be perfectly clear - and I made this comment earlier - I do believe Apple has the right direction set, but it's the way that they've gone about it that's rubbed people the wrong way.

For instance (to scale):

View attachment 2108908 View attachment 2108903
The sidebar icons are considerably less legible. They're now about 25% the size of the System Preference icons, the use of 'app icon' graphics makes absolutely no sense when they're not applications, and some of the graphics themselves have questionable references (A sun for Displays? A Siri icon that looks like a weird blob?)

The categorisation of many settings doesn't make sense; login items in General, for instance?

Two kinds of dropdown menu? Yeah sure why not! 😂
View attachment 2108904
Advanced menu brings up a secondary window, whereas other Advanced/sub-menu buttons take you to other areas of the Settings? Well thought out. Clearly "moving forward".
View attachment 2108911

Toggles now come in different sizes? But I thought Apple was aiming for continuity with iOS/iPadOS? 🧐

View attachment 2108910
But maybe you're right... These are just "opinions"...

This analysis really points out the issues. The different toggle sizes are rather annoying.
There is something that tells my eye that its just poorly executed and it's bugging me to the point I don't want to use it. I preferred being able to see the top-level menus at a glance than scrolling. Using width is probably the 'killer' solution here.

It feels like using system settings is far more labor and time intensive and I really didn't want something else to deal with that wastes my time like that.

 

[elptdbi3lYI]

Wonderful.

But this only reiterates the point that I made recently, that there is a critical difference between objective and subjective observations.

By your logic, you are happy to "move forward" (that is you are happy to have change) at the expense of improvement. And so far, you've yet to make any clear arguments for how System Settings improves on Preferences other than it's new and it looks different.

To be perfectly clear - and I made this comment earlier - I do believe Apple has the right direction set, but it's the way that they've gone about it that's rubbed people the wrong way.

For instance (to scale):

View attachment 2108908 View attachment 2108903
The sidebar icons are considerably less legible. They're now about 25% the size of the System Preference icons, the use of 'app icon' graphics makes absolutely no sense when they're not applications, and some of the graphics themselves have questionable references (A sun for Displays? A Siri icon that looks like a weird blob?)

The categorisation of many settings doesn't make sense; login items in General, for instance?

Two kinds of dropdown menu? Yeah sure why not! 😂
View attachment 2108904
Advanced menu brings up a secondary window, whereas other Advanced/sub-menu buttons take you to other areas of the Settings? Well thought out. Clearly "moving forward".
View attachment 2108911

Toggles now come in different sizes? But I thought Apple was aiming for continuity with iOS/iPadOS? 🧐

View attachment 2108910
But maybe you're right... These are just "opinions"...

I agree, except about pull-down, there are two kinds of pop up menus one is pull-down another is pull-up, as far as I can see they're using both correctly in this case.

Pull-down buttons | Apple Developer Documentation

A pull-down button displays a menu of items or actions that directly relate to the button’s purpose.

developer.apple.com

Pop-up buttons | Apple Developer Documentation

A pop-up button displays a menu of mutually exclusive options.

developer.apple.com

Also bigger toggle is supposed to be used to control whole group of settings, like in the image, small toggles should be check boxes though.

 

[dogface1956]

what a crazy idea, to be primarily concerned with how an operating system behaves... over how system settings looks.

i use my mac to work (and play), and that's what matters most to me. and anyone who would switch platforms because they don't like the new system settings (really, how much time does anyone spend there?) should switch platforms, so we can get back to discussion, and support, on the forum.

apple is not going back because it undoubtedly believes it's taking valuable steps forward. and that's what interests me most; moving forward. am having a great experience on my macs, and am grateful for that 👍

Thats not what I said at all, I said "I think the new System Settings are a mess, but they are here to stay and I will have to get to them" No where did I say I was dumping the Mac because of the System Settings. What I did say that if Apple continues to move MacOS to be more like iOS that at some point I will move away from the Mac.

I happen to have an MacPro 2010 that is not being used so why not use that to start playing with some of the Linux Distro's. I use my Mac to make a living so changing platforms is not a decision I take lightly, it would be stupid to just change over, but it would also be stupid not to check out what other platforms have to offer (not interest in Windows at all, so Linux is the only other platform that interests me).

 

[fisherking]

Thats not what I said at all, I said "I think the new System Settings are a mess, but they are here to stay and I will have to get to them" No where did I say I was dumping the Mac because of the System Settings. What I did say that if Apple continues to move MacOS to be more like iOS that at some point I will move away from the Mac.

I happen to have an MacPro 2010 that is not being used so why not use that to start playing with some of the Linux Distro's. I use may Mac to make a living so changing platforms is not a decision lightly, it would be stupid to just change over, but it would also be stupid not to check out what other platforms have to offer (not interest in Windows at all, so Linux is the only other platform that interests me at all).

i was responding to this:

"I am surprised he has not brought up the under the hood improvements to you, that seems to be his go to reason for upgrading to Ventura, does not matter that System Settings is not an under the hood improvement, but a change in the interface"

anyway, if linux is an option for you, that's great. personally, i wouldn't abandon an OS because of the GUI (over how my apps work). but hey, i made it thru aqua...