Do you like the MacOS Ventura System settings? [MERGED]

[jgbr]

so, 12 people complaining becomes...13? 20? vs how many macusers worldwide? and what's the goal: to get apple to see that 20 people on the macrumors forums don't like the new settings, so they'll have an emergency board meeting, and change it all back to the old 'preferences'?

not liking something is ok. but adapting is the only move; that, or rolling back one's OS (which, to me at least, seems absurb; giving up advances in the tech, improved underlying code... and moving forward). how often does anyone need to visit settings? and how hard is it to use the search window in settings? 🤔

so, you roll back to monterey. then, one day, you need a new mac, and it comes with <drum roll>... ventura. and you have to then adapt...

It goes beyond this forum post or even MRF's of the growing core rot in Mac OS. It's not just a 'few people'.

You know some people need their machines to actually work and not spend forever tinkering around with them. They need to be productive, searching for something they had brain memory to do before isn't an improvement to the user. Many of these people couldn't give a damn about the underlying code (and how much actually changes is questionable considering the amount of tinkering Apple do with how something looks, rather than how it works of late, the former being of no value. The new settings being a prime example of that.)

 

[jgbr]

Don't try to get any reply from fisherking, he acts like he has a personal stake in Ventura. I am surprised he has not brought up the under the hood improvements to you, that seems to be his go to reason for upgrading to Ventura, does not matter that System Settings is not an under the hood improvement, but a change in the interface. I am with you the System Settings is a mess, but Apple is not going to go back so will have to get used to it, but if Apple keeps heading in the direction of making Mac OS look like iOS at some point I will be moving on from Apple. I have started to check out some on the Linux distros in case some time in the future Apple forces me to move on. I have been using Macs since 1984 and don't want to change platforms, but I really am worried about the Apple continued push to make Mac OS like iOS. I have a Mac Pro that I replaced with the Mac Studio Ultra that I am thinking of setting up with some of the Linux distros to see if I can move my work flow over.

He just tried. He's almost like the face in the old famous 1984 Apple advert where all the users MUST LIKE and MUST DO something a way. That or Ventura's system settings is his 'precious'...

 

[sdwaltz]

This maybe the issue, how apple once viewed how the OS behaves has changed to ‘how it looks’. Bottom line: more bugs and issues, then people will go elsewhere. That being MS or Linux.

I believe Mac sales are at or near all-time highs?

 

[jgbr]

I believe Mac sales are at or near all-time highs?

People are trying to ditch their butterfly keyboards and lack of ports machines as quickly as possible. 😂

 

[fisherking]

It goes beyond this forum post or even MRF's of the growing core rot in Mac OS. It's not just a 'few people'.

You know some people need their machines to actually work and not spend forever tinkering around with them. They need to be productive, searching for something they had brain memory to do before isn't an improvement to the user. Many of these people couldn't give a damn about the underlying code (and how much actually changes is questionable considering the amount of tinkering Apple do with how something looks, rather than how it works of late, the former being of no value. The new settings being a prime example of that.)

lots of people (here, and in the real world), are using their macs right now... on ventura! 🤯

it is just a few people in the overall scheme of things. and it happens with every new OS; 'why did they change this?" "why can't i...." etc.

the underlying code IS the OS, and determines how your mac works. and there's a 'search' window in settings; so easy! you can use that until you finally adapt. then life goes on.

this is how change works, as it always has, in this, or any OS.

 

[fisherking]

He just tried. He's almost like the face in the old famous 1984 Apple advert where all the users MUST LIKE and MUST DO something a way. That or Ventura's system settings is his 'precious'...

seriously, you don't know me at all... 🤔

 

[dogface1956]

lots of people (here, and in the real world), are using their macs right now... on ventura! 🤯

it is just a few people in the overall scheme of things. and it happens with every new OS; 'why did they change this?" "why can't i...." etc.

the underlying code IS the OS, and determines how your mac works. and there's a 'search' window in settings; so easy! you can use that until you finally adapt. then life goes on.

this is how change works, as it always has, in this, or any OS.

The interface GUI is way you and your applications interact with the OS, so if the GUI sucks the entire user experience sucks, by your way of thinking you would be happy using the terminal in place of the GUI, because you are in it for all the underlying code, if that was the case you should be happy with in Unix/Linux distro out there.

I'm sorry but the Mac Interface is what is all about for me, I stopped using MS-DOS (Or for that matter AppleDOS) and moved to the Mac in 1984 so I could stop using the command line, point and click is where it is at "baby." I don't use the terminal that is available on the Mac because I don't want to remember the commands necessary to use the terminal and I can do everything I want or need to do via GUI interface. Hell I used a relational database named Helix to create a Point Of Sale software for my retail store which allowed me to create the entire system by connecting various icons on the screen instead

Ask Window users how much they enjoy the change in each new version of Windows, many of the changes are just for the sake of change not because they are an improvement over the old way of doing things. Apple has been driving down that road for awhile, while some change can be a good thing if it actually improves how we interact with the computer, if the change is made just to have a new feature to list for your marketing brochures, then it is time to rethink if the change was really necessary to make.

I think what many people are saying here, is that the new systems settings have not made things better, that they are confusing and poorly thought out, that this particular change has not made the Mac interface better, but worse for how they use their machine and while we all know that we have to get used to it and adapt that we feel we should not have to, that this was just a change that was made for the sake of making a change (actually of merging the MacOS with iOS) which does not take into account that most users have different requirements when using MacOS and iOS.

You can keep telling me I have to adapt and get used to it, that the underlying code is the key to everything (is there any evidence that the underlying code is improving/better or is all the reprogramming/code that Apple is creating when they make these yearly changes to the OS making the underlying code worse? I don't program or code so I honestly don't know), but my/our opinion is just as valid as yours so my response to you is why should I adapt/change the way I am doing things and is apple doing the right thing with yearly updates adding or changing features just to be able to say that they added 75 or 100 or 125 new features to the Mac OS.

 

[fisherking]

The interface GUI is way you and your applications interact with the OS, so if the GUI sucks the entire user experience sucks, by your way of thinking you would be happy using the terminal in place of the GUI, because you are in it for all the underlying code, if that was the case you should be happy with in Unix/Linux distro out there.

sure, but the GUI doesn't suck, it's simply your opinion that it does. and that's a huge thing to consider. again, many people (including obviously the OS designers at apple) like the new settings. so what are hoping to accomplish here?

opinions are not, by definition, facts. how is this so hard to grasp? 🤔

 

[dogface1956]

sure, but the GUI doesn't suck, it's simply your opinion that it does. and that's a huge thing to consider. again, many people (including obviously the OS designers at apple) like the new settings. so what are hoping to accomplish here?

opinions are not, by definition, facts. how is this so hard to grasp? 🤔

You are the one who seems to find this hard to grasp, you stop telling people your opinion that are saying they don't like the new system settings to adapt, they will get used to it in time and maybe they will cut you some slick about your opinion that the new settings are great and that everyone loves them.

I said, by your reasoning if the GUI sucked (not that it did suck, the new system settings part of the GUI does suck in my opinion) that the underlying code was/is the reason to use MacOS, that you would be happy to use the terminal to do everything you wish to do on your computer.

 

[fisherking]

You are the one who seems to find this hard to grasp, you stop telling people your opinion that are saying they don't like the new system settings to adapt, they will get used to it in time and maybe they will cut you some slick about your opinion that the new settings are great and that everyone loves them.

I said, by your reasoning if the GUI sucked (not that it did suck, the new system settings part of the GUI does suck in my opinion) that the underlying code was/is the reason to use MacOS, that you would be happy to use the terminal to do everything you wish to do on your computer.

am not sure what you're getting at, to be honest. i have never said 'everyone loves' the new settings; i simply pointed out that 'many here' are ok with it, and apple obviously likes it. but you have an opinion, i have an opinion; we're equal in that regard.

meanwhile, ppl can whine about the new settings, or adapt (or, i guess, whine, then adapt). what else is there?

 

[CasualFanboy]

right. are you saying that tech should not advance? and who determines the 'right' moment to stop development?

we could all be watching black-&-white picture-tube tvs, driving hand-cranked cars. making calls on our landlines (once the operator connects us).

progress happens. things change. change can be scary, but ultimately... rewarding. and i for one love that.

In many aspects tech is only changing. It is not advancing.

 

[CasualFanboy]

so, you roll back to monterey. then, one day, you need a new mac, and it comes with <drum roll>... ventura. and you have to then adapt...

Unless something drastically changes for the better - which is unlikely - by the time I need a new computer, Apple will be trotting out an OS that is somehow even worse and more obnoxious than Ventura.

 

[fisherking]

Unless something drastically changes for the better - which is unlikely - by the time I need a new computer, Apple will be trotting out an OS that is somehow even worse and more obnoxious than Ventura.

this is your opinion; you're certainly entitled to it. and if you find yourself that unhappy, there are lots of PCs to choose from.

for the rest of us, we can continue to enjoy what many see as 'better', with our macs, and mac os. for me, the M2 air is a great computer, running ventura beautfully. and i am getting my work done, most important (to me) of all.

 

[CasualFanboy]

this is your opinion; you're certainly entitled to it. and if you find yourself that unhappy, there are lots of PCs to choose from.

for the rest of us, we can continue to enjoy what many see as 'better', with our macs, and mac os. for me, the M2 air is a great computer, running ventura beautfully. and i am getting my work done, most important (to me) of all.

Some people are fine just taking what is given down to them by people they consider to be the experts of everything. Your tautological argument is that "this is the Apple way because Apple is doing it." And I guess that's fine, but I'm not one of those people, and I'm glad that I'm not.

My computer has always been about way more than "getting my work done." I do use it to get my work done, but that's only a part of it. What about creating something for personal satisfaction? Or loving the aesthetic, and feeling comfortable with the design. Paying a little extra for the intangible benefit you get from the particular product you chose, for any number of individual reasons.

That is what Steve Jobs understood better than anyone. And that's what the people in charge at Apple now will never understand or care about. And that's why people worry about it, and discuss it in forums.

It's not the end of the world, but we don't come here to discuss our most personal stories. It's a good place to talk about anything related to the Apple ecosystem, that's what you're seeing page after page.

Yes, _all_ of this is opinion. Nobody here gives a damn about these fine distinctions between perception and reality. Not in the context of what we're talking about. The thread title begins with "do you like..."

 

[fisherking]

Some people are fine just taking what is given down to them by people they consider to be the experts of everything. Your tautological argument is that "this is the Apple way because Apple is doing it." And I guess that's fine, but I'm not one of those people, and I'm glad that I'm not.

My computer has always been about way more than "getting my work done." I do use it to get my work done, but that's only a part of it. What about creating something for personal satisfaction? Or loving the aesthetic, and feeling comfortable with the design. Paying a little extra for the intangible benefit you get from the particular product you chose, for any number of individual reasons.

That is what Steve Jobs understood better than anyone. And that's what the people in charge at Apple now will never understand or care about. And that's why people worry about it, and discuss it in forums.

It's not the end of the world, but we don't come here to discuss our most personal stories. It's a good place to talk about anything related to the Apple ecosystem, that's what you're seeing page after page.

Yes, _all_ of this is opinion. Nobody here gives a damn about these fine distinctions between perception and reality. Not in the context of what we're talking about. The thread title begins with "do you like..."

wow, am confused. we're discussing opinion; your opinion is, the new settings are bad. others have different opinions.

it's not that i think apple is perfect, that i love everything they do (i don't). but your opinion about settings is not the only one that matters. do you not get that?

if you don't love the aesthetic, but others do... doesn't that matter? if you and i watch the same movie, and you love it and i hate it... we're both right, neither of our opinions matters more.

if you can't grasp the difference between 'perception and reality', there's no discussion. if you don't like settings, that's fine. apple hasn't failed... it's only failed you.

 

[CasualFanboy]

wow, am confused. we're discussing opinion; your opinion is, the new settings are bad. others have different opinions.

it's not that i think apple is perfect, that i love everything they do (i don't). but your opinion about settings is not the only one that matters. do you not get that?

if you don't love the aesthetic, but others do... doesn't that matter? if you and i watch the same movie, and you love it and i hate it... we're both right, neither of our opinions matters more.

if you can't grasp the difference between 'perception and reality', there's no discussion. if you don't like settings, that's fine. apple hasn't failed... it's only failed you.

Who and what are you addressing? Nobody said anything about your opinion mattering less or more.

We all understand the difference between perception and reality, broseph.

As for whether or not apple is failing, it sure does seem like each release spurs a lot of discontent and concern about their direction and the downward trend in quality (and upward trend in price). You can point to the quarterly profits, but there's no direct correlation since we're only talking about the non-mobile OS. They have focused increasingly on seemingly everything except the original flagship operating system - mobile phones, fitness watches, earbuds, and their subscription models for TV and music.... which are all things I don't care about at all. That's probably where a lot of their profit comes from, and all they do now is chase shiny things.

I don't use a company's profit margins to determine whether or not I want their product. It's completely irrelevant.

If only system settings were the only misstep in this area....

 

[fisherking]

Who and what are you addressing? Nobody said anything about your opinion mattering less or more.

We all understand the difference between perception and reality, broseph.

As for whether or not apple is failing, it sure does seem like each release spurs a lot of discontent and concern about their direction and the downward trend in quality (and upward trend in price). You can point to the quarterly profits, but there's no direct correlation since we're only talking about the non-mobile OS. They have focused increasingly on seemingly everything except the original flagship operating system - mobile phones, fitness watches, earbuds, and their subscription models for TV and music.... which are all things I don't care about at all. That's probably where a lot of their profit comes from, and all they do now is chase shiny things.

I don't use a company's profit margins to determine whether or not I want their product. It's completely irrelevant.

If only system settings were the only misstep in this area....

"If only system settings were the only misstep in this area.... a misstep in my opinion"

"it sure does seem like each release spurs a lot of discontent and concern about their direction and the downward trend in quality, at least here on macforums, a really tiny representation of macusers"

fixed it for you.

remember, system settings is a misstep in your opinion, not everyone's. and your opinion of what is 'reality' is still, at the end of the day, just your opinion.

am done with this. you may never like settings, but that won't change it. and i guarantee; in six months or so, everyone will have moved on. those who don't like it will grudgingly be using it. and the perpetual whiners... will have found something else to whine about.

 

[jgbr]

The core rot in Mac OS is well documented and it’s not being fixed. Remember changes like this [right or wrong] are more than likely to introduce more bugs. Changing things in Mac OS that are useful-fine- but preferences wasn’t one of them, not even close to a priority.

 

[fisherking]

The core rot in Mac OS is well documented and it’s not being fixed. Remember changes like this [right or wrong] are more than likely to introduce more bugs. Changing things in Mac OS that are usefu-fine- but preferences wasn’t one of them, not even close to a priority.

'well-documented'? where, exactly?

and why can't apple change things? should we all still be running OS 9 or something? what's the cutoff point for 'change'...

anyway, not experiencing any 'core rot' here; in fact, having a (mostly) great time, in ventura, on my macs. and always excited to see what comes next. 👍

 

[RednBlue]

you may never like settings, but that won't change it. and i guarantee; in six months or so, everyone will have moved on. those who don't like it will grudgingly be using it. and the perpetual whiners... will have found something else to whine about.

I'll drink to that.

 

[petrucci666]

A complete design downgrade. What were they thinking? And is there any way to aesthetically fix it?

 

[fisherking]

lots of people like it (i do). i think it's a more mature, logical app now. either way, it is the present and the future, so you'll adapt, and then, one day, you won't be thinking about it all, and you'll just be using it.

 

[rehkram]

lots of people like it (i do). i think it's a more mature, logical app now. either way, it is the present and the future, so you'll adapt, and then, one day, you won't be thinking about it all, and you'll just be using it.

Exactly. Just ignore the whiners! With all due respect to whiners, they need to find something else to whine about, and I'm sure they will, god bless 'em

System settings > text desc is more mature. Who needs lame, ms windows-esque icons that have to go through vetting of layers of sub-committees populated by so-called "UI experts"? Just a straight list will do just fine, actually. The "UI experts" need to learn to cut code and/or go get another job title.

 

[Eric Idle]

Mac user here since System 6. There are no words, in any known language, that can describe how much I hate Ventura's system settings. I won't buy any more Apple hardware until they fix this dumpster fire of an effort.

 

[Shirasaki]

Mac user here since System 6. There are no words, in any known language, that can describe how much I hate Ventura's system settings. I won't buy any more Apple hardware until they fix this dumpster fire of an effort.

Which they won’t because their goal is to dumb down macOS into a glorified iPadOS.