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Do you like the MacOS Ventura System settings? [MERGED]
- Thread starter the8thark
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so any OS improvements under-the-hood aren't valuable? that's always my primary concern, over eye candy and features i may not want (or need).
having said that, there are new features i like. but the OS, since beta 1, has been pretty great: fast, and stable. and nothing wrong with that...
I was referring to the advertised features of Ventura rather than the under the hood optimizations, security fixes etc. Glad to hear about the stability and speed you've experienced so far.
having used Ventura beta3 for a while now, i have to revise my previous post.
it is very nice and quick 🤠
it is very nice and quick 🤠
After seeing some of the videos and screenshots of the System Settings/Preferences in Ventura, I will say that it looks like a complete and total cluster#$%@ – but I also am willing to concede that this is still a beta, and things will likely improve.
That being said, Apple isn't showing any improvement on this, so I'm skeptical they'll pull it off in time for late fall release.
Thankfully, as I said earlier, I spend a few minutes in System Settings when a new OS is released, and rarely open it again until the next OS release.
That being said, Apple isn't showing any improvement on this, so I'm skeptical they'll pull it off in time for late fall release.
Thankfully, as I said earlier, I spend a few minutes in System Settings when a new OS is released, and rarely open it again until the next OS release.
i think you'll get used to it. took me a minute, but now i prefer it's organization, logic.
as with all OS changes, we adapt.
I am fine with the changes but the new Settings is buggy, slow and UI elements are broken. Search sometimes does not work. Also some elements are right alligned and feel very weird.
I cannot believe I am saying this but Gnome(Linux) had better stable settings during Fedora beta and it underwent a redesign as well. Apple really lost it with the software on the Mac. Just look at the Music.app its not even properly optimsed and to this day opens web views.
we are in beta. anyway, here it's not buggy or slow, but yes, it's not finished either (ie search not always finding things).
It will be like this in release day as well. The Music.app is still worse than iTunes and Apple had 3 years to fix it.
lots of people (myself included) use the music app without issue. i know people on this forum have complaints, but that doesn't mean it's broken for all.
system settings won't change radically by it's official release, but search should work better, and some of the quirks should be ironed out.
the icing on the cake is... the betas and releases that follow the official release, as all software is a work-in-progress
I know its usable but Apple in the past has always been about quality in the past when it came to software. Lately, its not been like that.
The care and thought Apple used to put in their Mac software was first class.
this is an argument we hear with every new OS; "apple is not what it used to be'. and... it's boring. things change. sometimes we stumble. sometimes things get better. and always, we adapt.
in a year, when we're beta-testing the next OS, the same comments and whining will happen. it's a cycle, and easy to see if you look thru early posts on the previous OS forums.
apple, flaws and all, at least keeps moving in a forward direction. system settings seems pretty great to me (and yes, buggy in places), and in no time at all, we'll all get used to it, and life will go on.
John Gruber's Monday, Aug. 15, post (Verbatim here, because I cannot get a permalink to it right now):
THE FIT AND FINISH OF THE ALL-NEW SYSTEM SETTINGS ON MACOS 13 VENTURA ★
"Niki Tonsky last week posted this thread on Twitter on the state of the new System Settings app in developer beta 5 of MacOS Ventura, illustrated with screen captures. If you haven’t seen it, follow the link.
Spoiler: it is not looking good. Yes, MacOS 13 Ventura is still in beta. Yes, it’s probably not scheduled to ship until October or maybe even early November. But the basic fit and finish of Ventura’s new System Settings is just bad. It feels like there’s something deeply wrong with SwiftUI that, even while in-progress, so many little layout details are apparently hard to get right. There are buttons that are halfway cut off by their parent view. When has Apple ever shipped beta software with problems like that? Putting aside the philosophical issue of whether the Mac’s system prefs/settings app should follow the basic model of Settings on iOS/iPadOS, no matter what style MacOS’s System Settings is supposed to look like, there should be no question that it should look pixel-perfect.
With AppKit, famously, it actually took extra work to make a basic UI look wrong. Whatever process and tools Apple is using to create the new System Settings — again, I think it’s all SwiftUI, but it doesn’t really matter — it’s seemingly very difficult for them to get basic UI elements to align and lay out in a way that’s even close to elegant.
If Apple can’t make professional-looking settings panels with SwiftUI, how can anyone be expected to?"
THE FIT AND FINISH OF THE ALL-NEW SYSTEM SETTINGS ON MACOS 13 VENTURA ★
"Niki Tonsky last week posted this thread on Twitter on the state of the new System Settings app in developer beta 5 of MacOS Ventura, illustrated with screen captures. If you haven’t seen it, follow the link.
Spoiler: it is not looking good. Yes, MacOS 13 Ventura is still in beta. Yes, it’s probably not scheduled to ship until October or maybe even early November. But the basic fit and finish of Ventura’s new System Settings is just bad. It feels like there’s something deeply wrong with SwiftUI that, even while in-progress, so many little layout details are apparently hard to get right. There are buttons that are halfway cut off by their parent view. When has Apple ever shipped beta software with problems like that? Putting aside the philosophical issue of whether the Mac’s system prefs/settings app should follow the basic model of Settings on iOS/iPadOS, no matter what style MacOS’s System Settings is supposed to look like, there should be no question that it should look pixel-perfect.
With AppKit, famously, it actually took extra work to make a basic UI look wrong. Whatever process and tools Apple is using to create the new System Settings — again, I think it’s all SwiftUI, but it doesn’t really matter — it’s seemingly very difficult for them to get basic UI elements to align and lay out in a way that’s even close to elegant.
If Apple can’t make professional-looking settings panels with SwiftUI, how can anyone be expected to?"
Some of John Gruber's writings fit well in the FUD category. It's a beta for crying loud. Apple will figure it out. They have to.
i read that a few days ago. i hear him, too. and agree, we're still in beta. i also have... my own opinion (which ultimatelty matters most to me).
i think it needs work, but it's fine-tuning. either way, apple must like it, and it's their OS to design & support.
I personally dont mind the change until I realise the setting I want to find cannot be found in under 10s, whether it is removed or thrown into the pit. Such drastic change is also the perfect chance to remove features silently for whatever reason. Network location feature has been removed. Who knows what's next.
Apple is slowly trying to merge iOS and macOS without merging iOS and macOS. Otherwise why suddenly change system setting app layout, unless the ultimate goal is to lure more iOS users to use Mac, as pointed out by a couple other people.
Apple is slowly trying to merge iOS and macOS without merging iOS and macOS. Otherwise why suddenly change system setting app layout, unless the ultimate goal is to lure more iOS users to use Mac, as pointed out by a couple other people.
It’s software and the interface will iron out those inconsistencies in a few more builds.
It’s not something chiselled out of the hardest metal in the universe.
It can be changed, fixed, updated, made to look like anything.
So why did they write such a dufus article about a software interface in progress?
UI designers desperately trying to justify their work so they can keep their jobs, nothing more.
Because in Steve’s era, Apple did not release betas that were this buggy and bad and bad design decisions.
I didn't read the whole Tonsky twitter thread, however the first few items are problems I do NOT see when I look at my System Settings (PB4). This being the internet though, the outrage-inducing Twitter thread is making the rounds everywhere, and not the rebuttals/updates/counter-examples..
I have a few gripes with the new System Settings app (though I actually like it more than System Preferences) but as someone who used the Lion betas back in the day, there were definitely betas with weird design decisions that were extremely buggy…
(and yes, Steve was alive at that point)
I am not suprised that Lion was buggy. Steve was very ill, probably most of the choices were not made in sound mind.
Compare to Tiger, Leopard, Panther. These were quality releases.
Also, when you have to look up a "how too fix" on the web now, you get the old System screen layout which more than not, is different and with different functions than this new one. That is going to take some time to update all the troubleshooting tips.