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Are they so bad?
From Epic's website:

1) Unreal engine:
  • Unreal Engine End User License Agreement for Publishing: This license is free to use and incurs 5% royalties when you monetize your game or other interactive off-the-shelf product and your lifetime gross revenues from that product exceed $1,000,000 USD. -> free until you make 1 million dollars, then 5%
  • Unreal Engine End User License Agreement for Creators: This license is free to use and 100% royalty-free; you can use it to create internal or free projects, or to develop linear content or custom projects for clients, but not for publishing off-the-shelf offerings.
2)Epic game store:
When you buy a game on the Epic Games Store, 88% of the price goes directly to developers, versus only 70% on many other stores.

Yes, they are so bad.

The cost of the transaction is passed on to me, the game buyer, to cover. Every other platform eats those costs. Epic keeps 12%, hard and fast, providing nothing.

In APAC and LATAM this is a huge deal. Transaction costs on non-standard payment platforms can be as high as 25%. So instead of buying a 60 dollar game, it would be 75.

Since that's bad for me, it's also bad for the developer. And in Twitter exchanges with developers, they insinuated developers are foolish to want that cost passed on to them. They want those covered? It's 25% instead of 12. So, now, given the reach and prominence of the App Store, Steam, MS Store, Play Store, Playstation Store and what they offer, an additional 5% premium is a bargain. Each handles the taxes for the locale they were sold in too, Epic does not - that alone is worth that 5%, never mind everything else.

Out of their own mouths…
And what Valve says about those transactions:
 
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Totally irrelevant because that article discusses what those companies want to do NOW, not what they have been doing. In my previous post I said there was not an abundance of media articles of businesses complaining about the store practices of Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo, which means their business customers must be happy with the way the stores are run.
 
Totally irrelevant because that article discusses what those companies want to do NOW, not what they have been doing. In my previous post I said there was not an abundance of media articles of businesses complaining about the store practices of Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo, which means their business customers must be happy with the way the stores are run.

You not liking the facts presented notwithstanding, other venues do charge 30%.

In addition you seem to be working on the basis that something is only a defense if it is spoken about.

As the idiom goes: "If a tree falls in the wood and no one is around, does it make a noise?"
 
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Honest question: How many people actually play this on their phones? Console and computers I can see, but their phones? It doesn't look like it's a game that's conducive to play on a phone. Is this Epic's largest sector? Or are they just trying to be jerks about it?

I had read an article that all of iOS sales represented 10% of annual revenue to Epic. So, yeah, I think it's a smaller audience and not as impactful to Epic as people think. Also, if I'm correct, the largest subset of users on iOS are actually on iPad. It's not super playable on an iPhone unless you just NEED to play it. You really do need a tablet or PC to play.

It's also not playable on most Macs and basic Windows laptops. It needs a beefier processor than the Intel Iris units most laptops have or it's lags and has terrible screen effects.

It's kind of funny to read through the vast comments from people who don't actually understand the game or how it works or maybe even gaming in general. Macs are not a large platform for gaming--you need high spec machines and they are $$$$ compared to a PC. IOS is but not necessarily for these types of games either. The fps needs to be super high and the network ping needs to be ultra low. It's honestly not enjoyable to play on subpar gear because you just get killed by everyone who has actual gaming devices whether they are PCs or Consoles.

I've also been reading about people wanting refunds and wanted to point out that BattlePasses are seasonal. The season ended on time. Now you can't play or pay for a BattlePass on iOS. Go buy a Samsung Tab 10A or S6 or wait for the S7 and you can switch over to Android and play all you want on a tablet.
 
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12% (third time i have to write it in 3 pages. :) )

12% just for store space, 25% if you also want them to take over the transaction costs. I don’t know how much service they provide additionally.

All in all, App Store model is beneficial for small independent developers (pay based on success, easy accounting, easy distribution and payment). Probably not so much for large groups with a lot of money, since they can do these things cheaper themselves.
 
Non sequitur. But it's kind of fun to use twisted logic, so let me turn this around: the fact that iOS is constantly losing market share is because people are more and more fed up with the App Store, right?

The iOS install base continues to grow. So while market share may be falling (an irrelevant statistic to me), the fact remains that more people are using ios devices in an absolute sense.

There’s twisted logic, and there’s statements like yours which are just flat-out wrong.
 
Epic: "Apple's exclusive app store is bad"

Also Epic:

Why does the Epic Games Store make exclusivity deals?
Exclusives are a part of the growth of many successful platforms for games and for other forms of digital entertainment, such as streaming video and music.

 
I’d love for Epic to explain how Apple is being anti competitive.

Especially when their app is available on Mac, PC, iOS, Android, games consoles. Are Apple stopping them from releasing their product on other systems? No.

Epic has decided to release their game on Apple hardware, running Apple software, using a storefront that is run by Apple. They shouldn’t be able to cut the system owner from their cut.
 
I had read an article that all of iOS sales represented 10% of annual revenue to Epic. So, yeah, I think it's a smaller audience and not as impactful to Epic as people think. Also, if I'm correct, the largest subset of users on iOS are actually on iPad. It's not super playable on an iPhone unless you just NEED to play it. You really do need a tablet or PC to play.

ALL mobile, globally, is 12% of their total revenue intake. That total revenue number was 1.8 billion for 2019 (down from 2.4 in 2018). So like... 5% of that 1.8.
 
I don’t understand why companies aren’t just selling digital gift cards to avoid Apple’s 30%. Scenario: Epic opens a shop that allows you to buy shirts and other physical merchandise, as well as in game currency. Epic sells gift cards to said store in app. Gift card can be applied to in game currency, using Epic’s payment processing, bypassing Apple and remaining in compliance. Apple can’t take cut out stop the process without doing the same to its own iTunes/Apple store cards and Amazon gift cards (which work on digital content as well without giving Apple a cut.)

Problem solved and they can use that as evidence that consumers are willing to go about getting in-game currency a much harder way because customers don’t want Apple to have their (fair) share.
 
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I don’t understand why companies aren’t just selling digital gift cards to avoid Apple’s 30%. Scenario: Epic opens a shop that allows you to buy shirts and other physical merchandise, as well as in game currency. Epic sells gift cards to said store in app. Gift card can be applied to in game currency, using Epic’s payment processing, bypassing Apple and remaining in compliance. Apple can’t take cut out stop the process without doing the same to its own iTunes/Apple store cards and Amazon gift cards (which work on digital content as well without giving Apple a cut.)

Problem solved and they can use that as evidence that consumers are willing to go about getting in-game currency a much harder way because customers don’t want Apple to have their (fair) share.

Gift cards run through Blackhawk Networks. 20% of the face value goes to them.
 
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I don’t understand why companies aren’t just selling digital gift cards to avoid Apple’s 30%. Scenario: Epic opens a shop that allows you to buy shirts and other physical merchandise, as well as in game currency. Epic sells gift cards to said store in app. Gift card can be applied to in game currency, using Epic’s payment processing, bypassing Apple and remaining in compliance. Apple can’t take cut out stop the process without doing the same to its own iTunes/Apple store cards and Amazon gift cards (which work on digital content as well without giving Apple a cut.)

Problem solved and they can use that as evidence that consumers are willing to go about getting in-game currency a much harder way because customers don’t want Apple to have their (fair) share.

I believe section 3.1.1 of the developer agreement covers gift cards.
 
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You really think people don't care about security?
What makes you think people do care? Especially when it comes to app stores?

As the owner of a mobile development company I have had countless discussions about mobile platform pros and cons. The lack of openness is constantly an issue. On the other hand, nobody cares about Apple's alledged security benefits. And it is only logical: if you know what it is all about, and if you really care, you prefer open systems where you can control what is going on yourself, down to the network stack and memory management. Naturally, you're a fan of Linux. And Android. People who don't care about this stuff tend to buy iOS devices. But they don't care, so...
 
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What I upvoted was this:

What ruined Apple was not growth: they got very greedy. Instead of following the original vision, which was to make the thing an appliance and get this out there to as many people as possible they made outlandish profits for about 4 years. What this cost them was their future.
Steve Jobs, 1995

As big an Apple fan as I am (and have been for well over 30 years) I have very much appreciated their principles: simplicity; quality; environmental; etc but pricing has increasingly become unfavourable. I imagine this is true to many, especially at such an unprecedented period of history.

Since 1997/98 we've seen Apple go from strength to strength introducing revolutionary product after product, iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad, Apple TV, Apple Watch, Air Pods and now services, Apple Music, Apple TV+, Apple Arcade etc.

But the current state of affairs reminds me of the ‘dark days’ of the 90s. Product lines appear befuddled. Too many options, too many overlaps, too concerned with providing something for every budget/market and subsequently diluted in focus and appeal.

While I appreciate the design effort, innovation and technical engineering that encompass Apple’s product range, and have been willing in the past to pay the ‘Apple tax’ in compensation for unparalleled build quality, aesthetic design and flawless operation, the high prices, especially for those of us unfortunate to live in the post-Brexit UK, can no longer seem justifiable. The popularity of such refined products has forced competitors to up their game and the chasm between Apple and others in terms of ease of use, build quality etc now only exists at the cash register.

With Apple positioned atop of the industry and in global mindset, there are obviously those who wish to pull them from the pedestal. Human nature favours the underdog and for a long time Apple was that underdog, but certainly no more. Apple’s dominance and growth in certain markets has rattled cages. The Media delight in bringing those on high to task, grounding those deemed ‘risen above their station’. In today’s society negative press gains more clicks, gets more debate, than positive. A sad sign of the times. Large successful companies seem now to be jumping on this bandwagon to attack and demean competitors in the public forum.

I don't hold to this media manipulation but I don't see Apple helping themselves. Even in the ‘dark 90s’ I don't recall a time when there has been so much negative publicity enshrouding Apple. Despite the ethical and moral tenets to which Apple attest, eco-contribution, sustainability etc it is very difficult to see how some recent decisions can be amenable. When a company holding excessive wealth to the tune of 100s of billions maintains elevated prices in the current climate it becomes highly questionable as to their motivation.

I’m sure they’ve crunched the numbers and decided what a ‘fair’ price should be for their products and service releases, knowing the sway they hold and the average demographic for their target purchasers, but I would suggest, in light of the backlash pervading the internet, that they reconsider their position and do the right thing for their user base, their fan base, not just their stockholders.

For a company at the intersection of liberal arts and technology, Apple's ‘nest egg’ could easily suffer diminished profit margins reducing the cost of entry to new users/subscribers etc and would do much to project an aura of benevolence and good will.

Taking all the other negatives into account I'll reckon price appears to be the overriding factor even if it's being sold as monopolistic, anti-democratic, tyranny.

It shouldn't be about margins, marketshare or volumes or any other metric you care to choose. It should be about improving the lives of others and maintaining user satisfaction. Even loyal die-hard users won't feel happy seemingly gouged by a company sitting on an unfathomable pile of money. They may vote with their wallet or begrudgingly change their affiliation. In these days of austerity something almost as good for half the price may win out over inconvenience in the short term. Potentially this could seriously undermine Apple's ecosystem.
 
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What makes you think people do care? Especially when it comes to app stores?

As the owner of a mobile development company I have had countless discussions about mobile platform pros and cons. The lack of openness is constantly an issue. On the other hand, nobody cares about Apple's alledged security benefits. And it is only logical: if you know what it is all about, and if you really care, you prefer open systems where you can control what is going on yourself, down to the network stack and memory management. Naturally, you're a fan of Linux. And Android. People who don't care about this stuff tend to buy iOS devices. But they don't care, so...
If this the case why does the apples App Store generate more revenue? People trust it, people trust apple with their credit cards. People trust apple to handle refunds fairly and people trust that if an app is on apples store then its safe
 
There’s twisted logic, and there’s statements like yours which are just flat-out wrong.
Lol. So the 10x growing smartphone market that could barely compensate for customers leaving the iOS platform is now an argument for people loving Apple's App store policies?

Just to be clear here: I'm not saying Apple doesn't have loyal customers. But App Store guidelines certainly have nothing to do with it. Drawing connections from iPhone sales numbers to App Store love is more than pathetic.
 
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Has Epic Games lost their access to the App Store yet? Today's the day, August 28. They deserve to be banned from the App Store permanently. Shady developer and untrustworthy contractual partner.

"Don't let the door hit you where the lord split you", as they say, and good riddance, Epic!
 
Oh, would you look who it is at the top spot in the Apple store today. What a coincidence 😆
DCB7E40C-F01E-4DE2-837C-33E6AF288BD1.png
 
Lol. So the 10x growing smartphone market that could barely compensate for customers leaving the iOS platform is now an argument for people loving Apple's App store policies?

Just to be clear here: I'm not saying Apple doesn't have loyal customers. But App Store guidelines certainly have nothing to do with it. Drawing connections from iPhone sales numbers to App Store love is more than pathetic.
The iPhone really took off after the introduction of the App Store so it very foolish to suggest the success of one isn't linked to other, the whole point of apple products is ecosystem and the App Store is one of the biggest components of that.

On a side not we are here to discuss the word pathetic really isn't needed
[automerge]1598617552[/automerge]
Oh, would you look who it is at the top spot in the Apple store today. What a coincidence 😆View attachment 948243
Well played apple
 
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Yeah, this "passing the entire savings/costs onto consumers" myth needs to go away. In theory they have to raise the prices somewhere between 0% and 30% to reach maximum profit. I'd wager closer to the 0% since these are "luxury goods." So, yeah, it's basically a lie like the rest of their email.

Btw, if I had kids (I will later), I'd not want corporations emailing them semi-political announcements. Another reason to say no to smartphones and video games. There aren't even any upsides.

The pass the savings on to customer is even more ridiculous as the marginal cost of a "v-buck" is 0.
 
If this the case why does the apples App Store generate more revenue?
People who buy iPhones have more money. And they have no problem spending it on nonessential things (otherwise they would buy ****** Android devices that get the job done). It's really simple.

People on iOS spend more on real-world goods too. As you know, Apple doesn't control these payments, so trust certainly plays no role there, everything goes through the same PSPs on all platforms. But again, because people on iOS are generally well-off, they don't mind paying a bit more for everything, including online groceries, more expensive products on Amazon, Hello Fresh subscriptions etc.
 
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