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It has to be though, to stop developers essentially putting an empty shell for free on the iOS app store and then charging you an IAP to unlock all the levels in the game.
Apple can charge developers for hosting apps in the App Store based on the number of active users/downloads every month/quarter/year forcing developers to essentially doing away with free apps that has IAP. But inside every app, it is developers area they manage everything including services, behaviour, data, agreements etc..

UBER, Amazon, OneDrive, Google Drive apparently getting away with 30% cut from Apple if I understand correctly.
 
As a consumer (not shareholder) what does the net profit margins on hardware (which no-one really knows) have to do with this discussion. Apple is entitled to make from it's sales, what it can.

As a consumer, I would think most people evaluate a product on it's merits:
- does this product have value to me?
- can I do what I need to with this product?
- will this product be supported by the manufacturer for a reasonable life span?
- is it easy to get support?
- will this product come with updates? etc.
- are the apps/programs that come with this device high quality and reasonably priced for their function

Not:
- I dislike company politics
- I dislike the mgmt team
- the company has an excessive profit margin
- they charge too much in the app store (as if the consumer would pay less if apple charged less or most consumers really care about this anyway)

I'm sure there are a few other points to add, but the bottom line, if the device doesn't work for you, don't buy it.
False assumption, both sides exists, as in any other product category, too.
 
What is your reasoning behind that? Apple still provides the platform, the payment system, the customer service, etc.

Plus, if the cut for IAP were lower, what’s stopping all developers from making free apps with very little to no functionality with an IAP to unlock the real thing (so the customer ends up paying the same as if it was a Paid app, but the developer enjoys a lower Apple fee...why?)
I have covered the free app scenario in my other post.
But App Store hosting Apps is Apples territory but inside the App it is developers responsibility and accountability. No one should cut in that.
Apple can mitigate free App hosting by charging developers with license charges, not 30% on IAP.
It is like Apple taking 30% on all my fund transfers and charges for my financial system within the App.No that’s not possible
 
So... just a bit of Nostradamus prediction here... August 27, I suspect Epic will have their code modified to comply with Play and AppStore. Epic has the resources to spin out video/graphic renderings mocking the situation. This looks like they are using this for free advertising, and I think its working.
 
I genuinely do not understand why people and Epic have a problem with the 30% when PSN and XBOX (and other platforms!) also charge 30%? What’s the difference? I can’t see a difference?
You don’t see a difference between consoles that are sold at a loss and target only gaming vs smartphones smartphones and tablets which are general computing devices and sold with hefty profit margins?

Remember apple’s “what’s a computer?” Ad? Apparently the answer is a device where they haven’t yet forced everyone to give them a cut of every transaction😆
 
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Apple didn’t make epic break the rules. If epic wanted the 30% themselves, they just need to raise the price to offset. If the market wants to play, they’ll pay. If they don’t want to pay, then losing the game won’t matter anyways.

thats not how math works.

Its also against app store rules to charge a different price in stores other than the app store for the same thing. So unless they raise the price for everyone, including non apple platforms to match, apple will kick them off.
 
0% on IAP => So what happens if all app are free and you only pay through IAP? Where does it come the money to run the store?
Because that is exactly what it would happen.
Two sorts of license agreements one pay 30% on everything or license the app hosting for developers at a cost forcing them to host paid app and not cut into IAP.
 
Got news for ya, if I ran a store I'd be taking commission off your sales too. Anyone would.

Apple shouldn't take any commission because they're big and greedy and mean. They should give it away for free out of guilt for daring to *gasp* turn a profit! /s

I swear, feelings have taken full control over some people's decision making. Be it this case, politics, or just life in general. Rational thought seems to be dead.

It's nobody's business to decide what Apple does besides Apple and its shareholders. If devs and customers want to walk away, they can do so. But guess what? Very few do because of the value proposition of Apple, iPhone, iOS and the App Store.

At some point, Epic, along with any other revenue-seeking developer, saw the value in Apple and its platforms. After all, it helped them turn over $1B in profit. Now all of the sudden they try to corner Apple to get them to change a policy that really didn't seem to hurt them (is $1B in profit somehow mediocre?).

It's really hard to feel sorry for Epic. They deliberately violated Apple's policies, had a lawsuit and video ready to go on their desk knowing very well Apple would pull their app, organized a rebellion against Apple and now they're giving away competitor products to further spite Apple.

Like I've said before, Apple should just go ahead and revoke all their developer entitlements now. They have no intention of remedying the issue and I don't think Apple cares at this point. There will be many other successful developers that will pay their dues and not say "thanks Apple but screw you".

Exactly. A million times this. Epic could’ve gone on a sales strike and unilaterally withdraw Fortnite from the App Store in protest of those policies, and even sue Apple over them. Instead, they deliberately ran afoul of a legal agreement they entered, in order to play the victim card, and the timing of it all just gives it away.

Not only any sane judge could and should throw away the case altogether, as it was filed in blatantly bad faith (even if some regulator/watchdog ends up investigating Apple over this; that’s an entirely different matter), Apple might even be able to countersue Epic for damages, libel, etc. And I suspect they will, eventually and especially if some sort of agreement isn’t quickly reached (in fact, if Steve was alive, I am damn sure they would, or at least he would pen one of his famously curt and scathing open letters).

By the way, to the fanboys overcompensating over fears of being labelled as such: yes, I am a huge fan of Apple as a company, and I know they are a capitalist venture. I’m always critical of monopolies, legal corruption (AKA “lobbying”) and general hypocrisy (such as Apple labeling itself as 100% environmentally-friendly and, yet, fighting Right to Repair legislation across the board to the point that one day you can’t even replace a fscking capacitor on a MacBook board without killing it (I would be perfectly content with then being restrictive when it comes to privacy-sensitive stuff like chips with secure enclaves, etc., but this is getting ridiculous). But there’s a point where you have to look at reality for what it is: a legal agreement is a legal agreement; if you want to fight it, you can either try to renegotiate it, walk away from it or take it to court. Breaking it is just about the stupidest thing you can do to get your way, even if you’re absolutely right. Epic is fscked, and rightly so.

If I played Fortnite, I’d walk away from it in a heartbeat on principle. Because I’m a 35-year-old, not a child. The only reason Epic gets away with this stupid PR stunt is the fact that their target audience are, in essence, kids and young adults who don’t know yet right from wrong, and may not take lightly to moral lessons from their parents either way. But guess who else are adults? That’s right, UE customers and Epic Store sellers (i.e. vulnerable indy devs, big houses with their own legal departments, etc.). Apple may be sometimes mercurial and/or arbitrary when it comes to their policies, but they do listen and abide by the agreements they enter, and always did (EVEN during their Lisa and og Mac 128k days, complete with pirate flags, sassy adverts and middle finger selfies thrown at IBM); as for Epic, they may very well become a corporate persona non grata in the gaming world if they keep up with this juvenile BS, all their accumulated UE-related technical prowess notwithstanding.
 
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Except it's everywhere. Google Play Store, Xbox, PS, etc. 30% is standard.

Excellent point .... maybe a wholesale change in the industry is in order.

I say that mainly thinking about the smaller developers ... that‘s just a lot of money to take out of any small business.
 
Technically fortniite is a free app also it just full of micro transactions.
And I think Apple’s business model of taking a cut of micro transactions is not how they should be supporting the App Store or creating services revenues. Make developers pay based on what it costs their app to be in the App Store, not we get 30% of every transaction in your app.
 
So now, Apple, which makes absolutely insane net profit margins on their hardware, net meaning it already had cost like R&D and all other operating cost deducted, has to AGAIN pay for that through the store according to you? Is there no end to the illogical BS fanboys spout off to justify the practices of Apple?? Look, the problem is not that they charge 30%. They could charge 70% as far as I am concerned in their own store. The problem is there is no choice. Regardless if you are a consumer or developer, you are forced to use the Apple App Store. Once I pay for my phone, it is mine and mine alone and I am free to do with it as I wish. Except install something on it. Or purchase something through the web for it, and use it on the phone. That is the problem. I don't give a flying F about Apple making all sorts of claims about stability or security, it's not their problem. It's my phone, thus it is my decision. And by not allowing me to do as I wish with my property, they are violating my God given right to do so. And Apple should get f*ed over so hard by the legal system they don't ever attempt something like that ever again.

Your choice, your money right? You bought an iPhone, and you know their restrictions. Easy solution, go buy an Android device, enable developer mode and root it, and do literally everything you want.

Why pitchfork Apple for wanting a safe and clean experience on their own store? You can always Jailbreak and be as free as you want, but don’t expect Apple to warranty your device if something goes wrong. The same way Google wouldn’t if you did the same on a Pixel device.

Go install Linux while your at it, install all the repos you want and have a blast. Go setup an Arch box from scratch, go by a Huawei device, etc.

People have choices. Make the right one and be happy. Don’t expect a company with standards, policies, and the main goal of making money, to bend over backwards because you want to install an app they didn’t approve on their own store.

On the developer’s end, don’t buy a developer account at Apple, agree to terms, and submit your app to multi-million userbase, literally make billions and to then complain you didn’t make enough money after making billions like some 5 year old who didn’t get a third piece of pizza.

Epic is being epically childish. They “stand” for nothing but making more money. The epic freedom fighter defenders need to open their eyes.

The real discussion is how Epic literally targets certain demographics to rake in millions every single month. The same way Camel made cigarettes look really appealing to kids, the same way vape companies did the same thing. Epic is doing the same thing in digital format.

Whatever it takes to get more people to buy skins, “content”, battle passes, etc. They’re capitalizing on it right now witg the anti-apple rewards you can win in game. Don’t people see the problem with this company yet? I’m so glad Apple is being stern. Policies are policies.

That is the real issue with Epic that doesn’t get talked about enough.
 
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Do people NOT realize when they say this, they are ignoring Apple’s whole part? It’s the company that refuses to back down from their monopolistic 30% cut. They’re taking it from every single developer on the App Store. I don’t understand, why are you pointing fingers at Epic but can’t realize who is really at fault here?

Are you being sarcastic here? Every.Single.Console.Maker.Takes.30.Percent. The war is only on Apple and a little Google. No other console maker is even targeted. If they were coming at ALL console makers, I might consider the argument. Sad when they have had such a good relationship up to this point.
 
I’m an Apple fanboy myself, but damn, at least I can point out where they’re wrong. Many people here need to learn how to do that, honestly.

right, because Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft taking over a 60% cut prior to the App Store and making developers pay a large up-front fee to even participate in the developer program was way better.

Apple’s 30% App Store with $100 up front fee not only broke down the walls it made it possible for more devs to make more money off their work.

just like Amazon charging like 70% to independent authors until Apple came along and charged only 30% without requiring exclusivity.

Please get your facts straight before you call Apple wrong. Epic is just being greedy. They should build a platform for third parties to sell alternate in-game items in Fortnite using alternate currency and then charge nothing to those third parties to do so. Because it makes perfect sense to maintain SDK’s for free while letting others exploit a platform you built for their own profit, right?
 
Except it's everywhere. Google Play Store, Xbox, PS, etc. 30% is standard.
Epic hasn’t sued Microsoft or Sony. Perhaps those companies are just better at developer relations and/or Epic feels the 30% in that case is justified. When’s the last time Apple has had to justify their 30% cut? Because you can’t get iOS apps from anywhere else or use other in-app payment options Apple doesn’t have to compete. They don’t have to be the best store or provide the best customer services for developers.
 
What about all the free apps in the store? Why should Epic have to pay for Facebook and Netflix to be free?
Are you proposing to do away with free apps in your never ending quest to try to convince anyone and everyone that epic are correct?
I have this game on the tablet AND Xbox One X .... Guess I’ll have to stop cheating on IOS (with auto fire) and actually play the game

I’m a 50 year old fan of both of these companies and their products. I’ve been in the entertainment industry for 25 years and if any of you like The Mandalorian .. you can thank Epic (Google it).

Fortnite has enabled me to stay in touch with my kids while they’re at the ex wife’s house. I play with my daughter all the time and she kicks ass. Saved me a number of times.

30% is highway robbery. I wouldn’t give the mafia 30%. No where in any other industry are the commissions that high.

yes yes yes “you knew what you signed up for” ... blah blah .... I get that and i respect it .. I really do. But times change ....Fortnite was HUGE before Apple was ever invloved so you can’t make the claim that Apple deserves really much at all ... in this scenario (and as i said I’m a big fan of Apple) ... Apple should be happy they get ANY CUT AT ALL from Epic.
Plenty of other industries take a 30% cut and more even. For a 50 yo you seem a little naive with this statement.
You don’t see a difference between consoles that are sold at a loss and target only gaming vs smartphones smartphones and tablets which are general computing devices and sold with hefty profit margins?

Remember apple’s “what’s a computer?” Ad? Apparently the answer is a device where they haven’t yet forced everyone to give them a cut of every transaction😆
How is it apples problem that console manufacturers use this dubious business model of selling a product for less than cost and then relying on addons (games in this case) which you need to buy to use it, to make the money? How is it anyone else’s problem? How is it better or fairer?
An iPhone is priced at what it is. If it’s to high, don’t get it. But if you do buy it,you get free with it every basic app you need. Then, should you want something more, you can purchase additional apps at the curated and safe Appstore.
If you can’t see that difference then I don’t know what to tell you.
 
Are you being sarcastic here? Every.Single.Console.Maker.Takes.30.Percent. The war is only on Apple and a little Google. No other console maker is even targeted. If they were coming at ALL console makers, I might consider the argument. Sad when they have had such a good relationship up to this point.

The argument is iOS devices are a general consumer devices while consoles are not.

General consumer devices used by almost all people
  • Android devices
  • iOS devices
  • Mac devices
  • Windows devices
Niche consumer device
  • Xbox
  • Playstation
  • Nintendo Switch
 
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The argument is iOS devices are a general consumer devices while consoles are not.

General consumer devices used by almost all people
  • Android devices
  • iOS devices
  • Mac devices
  • Windows devices
Niche consumer device
  • Xbox
  • Playstation
  • Nintendo Switch
Only if you consider 100m PS4's and 60m Switches niche.
 
The argument is iOS devices are a general consumer devices while consoles are not.

General consumer devices used by almost all people
  • Android devices
  • iOS devices
  • Mac devices
  • Windows devices
Niche consumer device
  • Xbox
  • Playstation
  • Nintendo Switch
1- Used by nearly all people? Wow. I think you live in a different world to the real one where half the planet can’t even feed themselves.
2- what does this statement have to do with anything anyway?
 
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playgrounds have rules, everyone else keeps to the rules just because you’re so big don’t mean you can bully the rest of us by threatening to wreck our playground if you don’t get your own way, grow up epic
 
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Do people NOT realize when they say this, they are ignoring Apple’s whole part? It’s the company that refuses to back down from their monopolistic 30% cut. They’re taking it from every single developer on the App Store. I don’t understand, why are you pointing fingers at Epic but can’t realize who is really at fault here?
At this point I think perspectives favoring Apple are:

- The work of establishing and maintaining the App Store, particularly with Apple who curates the store more than other e-stores, costs time, money, and manpower, and has particular value.
- Apple’s cut is the same (or lower in some cases) as many other electronic storefronts.
- Even if it weren’t, Apple reaches a higher-end customer base and has greater brand loyalty than other platforms, and access to that market also has value.
- Epic wants to smear Apple (I’m not taking a side on whether or not it’s justified) and then expect no repercussions.
- Epic agreed to Apple’s terms long ago.
- Probably another one or two I didn’t think of here.

I’m not saying I fully agree with Apple, but these are not difficult statements to comprehend. It is actually that you don’t understand these statements, or just that you don’t agree with any of them? If it’s the former, I hope this post helped.
 
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Do people NOT realize when they say this, they are ignoring Apple’s whole part? It’s the company that refuses to back down from their monopolistic 30% cut. They’re taking it from every single developer on the App Store. I don’t understand, why are you pointing fingers at Epic but can’t realize who is really at fault here?
They is the same cut taken from Sony Microsoft and Nintendo yet they are perfectly fine with that, when you look at the company Microsoft and others have invested money into epic they are in bed with each other to get an unfair advantage and that’s basically what they are after with Apple and Google but these two companies treat all developers equal Epic is not happy
 
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