Epic Games Throwing a 'FreeFortnite Cup' Bash Before iOS Users Lose Access

[Rogifan]

It gives Epic access to a huge install base that allows them to make millions. 💁🏼‍♂️

Epic has been around since 1991. They don’t need Apple to acquire customers. Of course they’re going to develop for iOS but if they could sell direct to consumer they would. That’s what Basecamp said about Hey. They have the relationship with the customer; they don’t need Apple. But in the minds of Tim Cook, Phil Schiller and Eddy Cue companies are only successful because of Apple and therefore Apple’s rent seeking is justified.

 

[dantroline]

Great move by Epic. More prominent app developers should follow suit.

From a consumer standpoint a software purchase should be valid for any platform the product is available on. Steam is good that way, for example and other competitors should follow suit.

 

[Rogifan]

Who hosts the game? Who validates authenticity, privacy and safety of game to joint customers? Who creates the hardware the game is played on? Who created the large customer base that they have access to? Epic wrote a piece of software. 12% seems high. They have minimal costs.

What about all the free apps in the store? Why should Epic have to pay for Facebook and Netflix to be free?

 

[Epicepoc]

So they did this to advertise the release of the next season of Fortnite? Cutting off iOS users and forcing them to buy their season pass on another device? lol free swag btw

Can they continue to develop on OS X? They are advertising Mac, but will they still have access to OS Xdeveloper tools?

Yes they can, Apple development tools are for anyone to download and free to use, no developer account is needed to distribute apps on macOS.
Also Epic uses its own development tools (on Mac) and isn’t dependent on Apple in any way to make its products.

 

[Wildkraut]

Well, you are saying that everything can be done by coding, I don't doubt that, I doubt how good that coding is. How well apps are reviewed before going on sell.
I doubt the new-store boss would cancel old incompatible apps, turning down the number of apps available in a market where that number would be crucial.

But then again, the development tools would have a higher cost, the consumer could have all those negative impacts we were listing. What for? To give Epic and other big companies a higher margin?

Can you list positive impacts to the end user other than saying "competition among different markets is good", what is this "good", in this case.

We won't get lower price, cause if the developer know we can pay 10$ for 10 gems, we'll pay 10$, we won't pay 7$ just because the money wouldn't go to Apple, because they planned to introduce charting adverts.

Sure thing, just build a general AppStore and a Store API, this does not even have to be made by Apple.

There are also uncountable macOS update mechanisms as prof of concept(e.g brew cast, MacUpdate), which could easily be adapted to work on iOS wrapped with a shiny UI and a decent working TopChart. We had TopChart Apps already before they anti-competitively got kicked out by Apple, and that just to prioritze their Store charts and sell ads there.

And there are also prof of concepts for alternative iOS AppStores, e.g. for jailbroken iDevices which works flawlessly, also that other one which runs trapped and limited by Apple over Testflight(iirc. called AltStore).

Personally, I also see no benefit of a AppStore compared to an App which comes with its own Update System or e.g. with something like the Sparkle Framework. There are uncountable ways to create something like that in a comfortable nice way. The benefit would be even to be able to run older Versions of an App, or e.g. to rollback because of a bug, whatever.

Anyway, I think I don't need to post a list with positive impact of market competitions, just look around you.
The whole world just came that far, because of market competitions.

But yes, an alternative AppStore won't stop filthy scumbag developers from exploiting customers, e.g. as Apple is doing with their monopoly in a much worse way. Getting all pre-crewed is not the right way, we need to be able to choose what's best for us.

 

[I7guy]

Epic has been around since 1991. They don’t need Apple to acquire customers. Of course they’re going to develop for iOS but if they could sell direct to consumer they would. That’s what Basecamp said about Hey. They have the relationship with the customer; they don’t need Apple. But in the minds of Tim Cook, Phil Schiller and Eddy Cue companies are only successful because of Apple and therefore Apple’s rent seeking is justified.

Correct. They voluntarily elected to go into the app store knowing the rules. And then they decided they didn't like the rules, so they threw a temper tantrum and filed suit. And while I don't know what will happen, hope Apple prevails.

 

[I7guy]

...
But yes, an alternative AppStore won't stop filthy scumbag developers from exploiting customers, e.g. as Apple is doing with their monopoly in a much worse way. Getting all pre-crewed is not the right way, we need to be able to choose what's best for us.

Is that a legal definition of monopoly? Personally, I'd rather be "screwed" by Apple this way, than be screwed by malware or worse in the other way.

 

[Wildkraut]

Correct. They voluntarily elected to go into the app store knowing the rules. And then they decided they didn't like the rules, so they threw a temper tantrum and filed suit. And while I don't know what will happen, hope Apple prevails.

Just because some company setup rules in an agreement, doesn't mean they are legally valid.
Judges will decide and show them what a free-market choice is. This already has been done many times in the past, and will be done in the future, too. There will always exist companies who abuses the free-market by setting some weird stuff in their agreements.

 

[throttlemeister]

how much should Apple take?

It’s funny to me people can’t understand Apple’s side. They are a business... Apple funds the R&D, designs the hardware, OS, App Store, runs the servers for the apps, markets the apps and some how are expected to do it for what? free, 1% 5% 10% 20%.

In you educated estimation what would it cost Apple to do this?

If you ran Apple what would you take and why?

Who decides how much they take? A random dude on the internet? The government? Why is it anybody’s but Apples decision? They own the store.

They are a company that needs to make money to pay for staff, R&D, parts, marketing and what ever else is needed to run a highly successful tech company. Oh and make a profit too.

No one is forcing Epic to use the App Store. There are many other platforms they can use. It just happens to be the best out there. Because Apple put a lot of work and money into making it what it is. A place where developers and people can distribute and buy apps very easily.

Also, No one, including Apple, is stopping Epic from marking their own hardware and OS and allowing themselves and others to use it for free.

So now, Apple, which makes absolutely insane net profit margins on their hardware, net meaning it already had cost like R&D and all other operating cost deducted, has to AGAIN pay for that through the store according to you? Is there no end to the illogical BS fanboys spout off to justify the practices of Apple?? Look, the problem is not that they charge 30%. They could charge 70% as far as I am concerned in their own store. The problem is there is no choice. Regardless if you are a consumer or developer, you are forced to use the Apple App Store. Once I pay for my phone, it is mine and mine alone and I am free to do with it as I wish. Except install something on it. Or purchase something through the web for it, and use it on the phone. That is the problem. I don't give a flying F about Apple making all sorts of claims about stability or security, it's not their problem. It's my phone, thus it is my decision. And by not allowing me to do as I wish with my property, they are violating my God given right to do so. And Apple should get f*ed over so hard by the legal system they don't ever attempt something like that ever again.

 

[I7guy]

Just because some company setup rules in an agreement, doesn't mean they are legally valid.
Judges will decide and show them what a free-market choice is. This already has been done many times in the past, and will be done in the future, too. There will always exist companies who abuses the free-market by setting some weird stuff in their agreements.

You're assuming Apple will lose. Bad assumption on your part.

 

[Rogifan]

Correct. They voluntarily elected to go into the app store knowing the rules. And then they decided they didn't like the rules, so they threw a temper tantrum and filed suit. And while I don't know what will happen, hope Apple prevails.

Why? Because you think their rent seeking is justified?

I find it amusing how many posts on this subject amount to nothing more than ‘well Apple is just doing what everyone else is’...because yeah that’s what Apple is known for...being like everyone else. Anyway you all might get what you want...Apple wins this battle...but they’ll lose the war. And then what’s imposed on them by governments will be way worse than anything they’d do on their own. Apple could drop the fees for IAP and allow 3rd parties to use their own payment processing option in app. Instead they’ll dig in and do nothing and governments will force them to do that PLUS allow side-loading or alternate app stores.

You're assuming Apple will lose. Bad assumption on your part.

Once governments get involved Apple is going to lose. If Cook was smart he’d do something before any government could.

 

[NufSaid]

Why do the mobs get to decide how much a company can charge?

This is far from a monopoly. I think they are miscalculating how much people love their iPhones.

 

[I7guy]

Why? Because you think their rent seeking is justified?

Yes.

I find it amusing how many posts on this subject amount to nothing more than ‘well Apple is just doing what everyone else is’...because yeah that’s what Apple is known for...being like everyone else. Anyway you all might get what you want...Apple wins this battle...but they’ll lose the war. And then what’s imposed on them by governments will be way worse than anything they’d do on their own. Apple could drop the fees for IAP and allow 3rd parties to use their own payment processing option in app. Instead they’ll dig in and do nothing and governments will force them to do that PLUS allow side-loading or alternate app stores.

Nobody knows what will happen in the future.

 

[Saipher]

1. Most iOS devices cost more than a console, which seems to make them ‘luxury goods’.
2. iOS is a closed platform.

1. You can buy a computer for $300, $3,000 or $30,000, it still is a computer, and in the 21st century, it’s no longer a luxury good but a necessity to have one (the pandemic has proven that now more than never), and with smartphones slowly becoming and replacing personal computers, Apple is going to come under the same monopolistic scrutiny as Microsoft went through (as lost) during the 90s with the Windows OS.

2. Exactly! And if you see my point above, you’ll see why Epic is arguing it shouldn’t be.

 

[ececlv]

Do people NOT realize when they say this, they are ignoring Apple’s whole part? It’s the company that refuses to back down from their monopolistic 30% cut. They’re taking it from every single developer on the App Store. I don’t understand, why are you pointing fingers at Epic but can’t realize who is really at fault here?

If ios was a monopoly, How is it a monopoly if i can play fortnite on my xbox?

 

[kuwxman]

If I were a Fortnite player, I'd be kind of tweaked off at Epic at this point. Probably a good idea to just find some other game to play, or do something more constructive with your time.

So... does Epic think everyone is going to run out and buy new hardware, just because they decided to start a fight with Apple?

This post right here shows the ignorance of those that don't already have experience with Fortnite. Players are already playing on multiple devices. My son, for example, goes back and forth from playing it on Xbox and iPad. All this does is mean he'll drop the iPad and solely play it on Xbox. Others play on PC, PlayStation, Android, and iOS.

It is also concerning how many people continue to feel Apple is 'right' in this situation. They're both fighting keep a portion of revenue. If you want to call Epic games greedy, the same applies to Apple. This whole battle is about money on both sides. Nothing else.

 

[I7guy]

To them, Apple always good, others bad.

The converse is, to them, Apple is always bad, others good.

 

[Kabeyun]

They’re really amping up the efforts in the court of public opinion. I see from their propaganda that we’re all now their “friends.”

 

[nixo]

Epic

So now, Apple, which makes absolutely insane net profit margins on their hardware, net meaning it already had cost like R&D and all other operating cost deducted, has to AGAIN pay for that through the store according to you? Is there no end to the illogical BS fanboys spout off to justify the practices of Apple?? Look, the problem is not that they charge 30%. They could charge 70% as far as I am concerned in their own store. The problem is there is no choice. Regardless if you are a consumer or developer, you are forced to use the Apple App Store. Once I pay for my phone, it is mine and mine alone and I am free to do with it as I wish. Except install something on it. Or purchase something through the web for it, and use it on the phone. That is the problem. I don't give a flying F about Apple making all sorts of claims about stability or security, it's not their problem. It's my phone, thus it is my decision. And by not allowing me to do as I wish with my property, they are violating my God given right to do so. And Apple should get f*ed over so hard by the legal system they don't ever attempt something like that ever again.

I really don't get people like you.....
Why did you buy a iPhone ?
Everybody knows its a closed system !!!
But no I want a iPhone and now that I have a iPhone a
am starting to complain it is a closed system.
I really don't understand this logic......

Do you also sign in to a football club and then start complaining
that you can't use a baseball..... what logic are you all using.

You should have bought a Android OS phone then !!

Like I said before, are you now gonna buy a Tesla and start complaining that
you can't fill it up with petrol ? Because its my Tesla now and I want to do whatever
i want with it. So Tesla should give me that choice.
NO
You knew how it works and you said ok ill buy it.
So stop complaining its a closed system !!!

 

[Wildkraut]

So now, Apple, which makes absolutely insane net profit margins on their hardware, net meaning it already had cost like R&D and all other operating cost deducted, has to AGAIN pay for that through the store according to you? Is there no end to the illogical BS fanboys spout off to justify the practices of Apple?? Look, the problem is not that they charge 30%. They could charge 70% as far as I am concerned in their own store. The problem is there is no choice. Regardless if you are a consumer or developer, you are forced to use the Apple App Store. Once I pay for my phone, it is mine and mine alone and I am free to do with it as I wish. Except install something on it. Or purchase something through the web for it, and use it on the phone. That is the problem. I don't give a flying F about Apple making all sorts of claims about stability or security, it's not their problem. It's my phone, thus it is my decision. And by not allowing me to do as I wish with my property, they are violating my God given right to do so. And Apple should get f*ed over so hard by the legal system they don't ever attempt something like that ever again.

The other thing, which is also rarely mentioned, is that they subtle force customers to upgrade the operating system, and to buy a newer hardware. Device Throttling was part of this bad practice, luckily they got caught in the act, but they are probably looking for newer ways to subtle force customer to buy newer iDevices.

They force this by not allowing developers to build newer Apps and release to older iOS versions or older Devices. In other hand this forces customers to buy newer devices, to get the new iOS versions, which allows them to run the newer App, and so forth.

Next Stop is the ARM macOS platform, looks like on the ARM macOS platform customers won't be able to run unsigned applications, too. This way they are subtle getting macOS to where iOS currently is, they will soon trap developers/customers, and start deciding whats wrong or right there, too.
Actually I was looking forward to the ARM macOS, but now it's the main reason why my current macBook Pro 15", is the last Mac I ever bought.

 

[Romeo_Nightfall]

Correct. They voluntarily elected to go into the app store knowing the rules. And then they decided they didn't like the rules, so they threw a temper tantrum and filed suit. And while I don't know what will happen, hope Apple prevails.

You live at your parents house, at some point you don’t like your dads rules, you break them but for a to me unknown reason, YOU didn’t leave your parents house ... you had a fight with your dad, but still lived in your parents house ...
YOU Hope your dad prevails - this is an allegory - just as a small hint to maybe open up your mind a bit!

 

[The Matt George]

I have this game on the tablet AND Xbox One X .... Guess I’ll have to stop cheating on IOS (with auto fire) and actually play the game

I’m a 50 year old fan of both of these companies and their products. I’ve been in the entertainment industry for 25 years and if any of you like The Mandalorian .. you can thank Epic (Google it).

Fortnite has enabled me to stay in touch with my kids while they’re at the ex wife’s house. I play with my daughter all the time and she kicks ass. Saved me a number of times.

30% is highway robbery. I wouldn’t give the mafia 30%. No where in any other industry are the commissions that high.

yes yes yes “you knew what you signed up for” ... blah blah .... I get that and i respect it .. I really do. But times change ....Fortnite was HUGE before Apple was ever invloved so you can’t make the claim that Apple deserves really much at all ... in this scenario (and as i said I’m a big fan of Apple) ... Apple should be happy they get ANY CUT AT ALL from Epic.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Give it up nerds. Most people that matter (adults with jobs to buy your app) couldn't care any less if your company lives or dies, let alone has an app in the App Store.

 

[I7guy]

So now, Apple, which makes absolutely insane net profit margins on their hardware, net meaning it already had cost like R&D and all other operating cost deducted, has to AGAIN pay for that through the store according to you? Is there no end to the illogical BS fanboys spout off to justify the practices of Apple?? Look, the problem is not that they charge 30%. They could charge 70% as far as I am concerned in their own store. The problem is there is no choice. Regardless if you are a consumer or developer, you are forced to use the Apple App Store. Once I pay for my phone, it is mine and mine alone and I am free to do with it as I wish. Except install something on it. Or purchase something through the web for it, and use it on the phone. That is the problem. I don't give a flying F about Apple making all sorts of claims about stability or security, it's not their problem. It's my phone, thus it is my decision. And by not allowing me to do as I wish with my property, they are violating my God given right to do so. And Apple should get f*ed over so hard by the legal system they don't ever attempt something like that ever again.

As a consumer (not shareholder) what does the net profit margins on hardware (which no-one really knows) have to do with this discussion. Apple is entitled to make from it's sales, what it can.

As a consumer, I would think most people evaluate a product on it's merits:
- does this product have value to me?
- can I do what I need to with this product?
- will this product be supported by the manufacturer for a reasonable life span?
- is it easy to get support?
- will this product come with updates? etc.
- are the apps/programs that come with this device high quality and reasonably priced for their function

Not:
- I dislike company politics
- I dislike the mgmt team
- the company has an excessive profit margin
- they charge too much in the app store (as if the consumer would pay less if apple charged less or most consumers really care about this anyway)

I'm sure there are a few other points to add, but the bottom line, if the device doesn't work for you, don't buy it.

 

[cocky jeremy]

30% is highway robbery. I wouldn’t give the mafia 30%. No where in any other industry are the commissions that high.

Except it's everywhere. Google Play Store, Xbox, PS, etc. 30% is standard.