A duopoly can have the same impact on the market as a monopoly
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A duopoly can have the same impact on the market as a monopoly
LMAO! I haven’t moved the goalposts an inch. You’ll see me referring to Apple as part of a duopoly throughout this thread and many others. I know it’s fashionable in the general political discourse as of late, but stop the lying.
You’ll have to cite your sources saying that our anti-trust laws only apply to true monopolies. And the competition is very much not healthy. Apple and Google have nearly identical terms and when one changes something the other quickly follows suit.
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And I absolutely hate the ISP monopolies. They should be subject to Title II regulations. I’m not sure where you get the idea nobody cares about it. How many people know the name Ajit Pai because of his stance on internet regulations?
Only, as I pointed out, there is collusion on prices or output between the various companies. What conclusion between Apple and Google regarding the mobile market is there? Not even Epic has claimed there is any.
Maybe the government can bring back WebOS and Windows Phone!
That'll put a stop to this duopoly madness...
?
That'll put a stop to this duopoly madness...
?
Duopoly is irrelevant , imo. If there were 10 app stores of which there probably are apple would still be picked on, because they are apple.
You joke but honestly, the more I learn about Web OS and the team behind the Pre, the more I wish that they could have found a way to last. There are some many things that both iOS and Android do today that are fully stolen from them. And another competitor in the market never hurts.
To be clear, I don’t expect this to happen at all, but it’s fun to dream.
Don't forget the cell telco's that keep buying up the competition. Even if there is still a bunch of them around they are all like cable, not pro consumer, only pro make money.
These all are involved in prodding consumers to spend more for phones and what they select.
I’m sure that would be true for some Apple detractors. Some of us can view things objectively however. Similar to your statement, for folks subject to the Apple RDF, Apple could control 100% of the market and folks would still say, “we shouldn’t regulate Apple, people voted with their wallets, it’s not Apple’s fault everyone else quit, devs can create their own smartphone platform if they don’t like it.”
"The antitrust laws prohibit conduct by a single firm that unreasonably restrains competition by creating or maintaining monopoly power. ... This requires in-depth study of the products sold by the leading firm, and any alternative products consumers may turn to if the firm attempted to raise prices." - FTC
"Long ago, the Supreme Court decided that the Sherman Act does not prohibit every restraint of trade, only those that are unreasonable. For instance, in some sense, an agreement between two individuals to form a partnership restrains trade, but may not do so unreasonably, and thus may be lawful under the antitrust laws." (sic, FTC)
The Cornell Law School has a page that serves as a hub for antitrust laws and what they actually say. The main page is 15 U.S. Code and there is a lot there but as the FTC itself states it all boils down to a single firm which given "mono" means "one" makes perfect sense. The one exception is when there is collusion between the companies involved in the market.
Rulings in Facebook, Apple antitrust cases show how tough it is to define a monopoly in the age of Big Tech shows how these laws are applied in the real world.
This is a stawman hypothetical. I may be an Apple fan but even I would say controlling 100% of the market is a monopoly. Sure there are some who might say there is no problem...just as there are those who say Trump's election was stolen from him, there is alien technology at Groom Lake, and Elvis is still alive.
I agree about some of us being able to be objective. However nice straw man about apple controlling 100% of the market. People, imo, would want apple regulated no matter how many app stores there were.
Power utilities are what are known as legal monopolies and are, in theory, heavily regulated by state and federal governments. They in fact, have to in many cases present evidence if they want to raise long term rates. This is due to practical matter - there is no way to "sign" electric power and if all companies used the same grid it would be an accounting and logistic nightmare
Heck, in New Mexico the Public Regulation Commission stepped in regarding internet service back in 2008-9 regarding the whole Zianet-Skywi Qwest disaster setting the president for the internet possibly being considered a utility.
It helps to define terms before making your analysis, rather than assuming words and phrases have the same meaning in both a legal and layperson’s context.
“Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power — that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors. That is how that term is used here: a "monopolist" is a firm with significant and durable market power. -FTC
Monopolization Defined
The antitrust laws prohibit conduct by a single firm that unreasonably restrains competition by creating or maintaining monopoly power.
Such great clarity for the discussions here
Apple isn't a monopoly, but rather is a monopolist
Apple isn't a monopoly, but rather is a monopolist
Where was apple found a monopoly by the courts?It helps to define terms before making your analysis, rather than assuming words and phrases have the same meaning in both a legal and layperson’s context.
“Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power — that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors. That is how that term is used here: a "monopolist" is a firm with significant and durable market power. -FTC
Monopolization Defined
The antitrust laws prohibit conduct by a single firm that unreasonably restrains competition by creating or maintaining monopoly power.www.ftc.gov
I think you need to look up the definition of a straw man, because that’s not it. That was me saying what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. It was me painting the opposing side with the same broad brush that was used to paint my side.This is a stawman hypothetical. I may be an Apple fan but even I would say controlling 100% of the market is a monopoly. Sure there are some who might say there is no problem...just as there are those who say Trump's election was stolen from him, there is alien technology at Groom Lake, and Elvis is still alive.
Come on dude, try a little harder. I even bolded the really important parts. “Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct.” Additionally I believe that’s what these AG’s are asking for isn’t it? For the appeals court to officially declare Apple a monopoly. Rather than ruling that Epic failed to prove it.
Yes it is as both I7guy and I said it was one as it proposed a totally off the wall hypothetical that as I said belonged in the same room as Trump's election was stolen from him, there is alien technology at Groom Lake, and Elvis is still alive.
Apple fanatics still going to bat for Apple even if they had 100% market share is off the wall?? Sorry, but I guarantee people in this very thread would still be making arguments on behalf of Apple if that were the case. Some people will defend Apple until their dying breath. I think the problem is that you failed to understand what my point was.
That was not the point. Case 4:20-cv-05640-YGR Document 812 Filed 09/10/21 goes over all of Epic's arguments that Apple was a monopoly and every one of them failed. The only thing the Judge could give Epic was a vaguely worded law which an actual lawyer said likely wouldn't survive because it effectively said you can close so we are taking action.
"While Apple’s conduct does not fall within the confines of traditional antitrust law, the conduct falls within the purview of an incipient antitrust violation with particular anticompetitive practices which have not been justified."
As I pointed out, at that time, that nonsense is like a judge upholding a ticket for going 34 MPH in a 35 MPH zone because 'you were close to speeding' (what is what Incipient means). The Ninth Circuit saw it for the nonsense it was and granted Apple's injunction. AFAIK an appeals court focus on matter of law rarely allowing new witnesses or new evidence. Considering Sweeny's comment I suspect he thinks the case may be kicked back (remanded) to the Federal appeals court as what happened with Circuit City v. Adams.
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Should it come to pass that the current android clientele decided ditch android to buy iPhones leaving android with 0% market share, I would hope apple is treated as a legal monopoly….not like AT&T in 1982.
I agree they both benefit from each other so why can’t they make money off each other.
You folks were talking game development I mean there’s not 50 but there’s a good amount, if you wanna go for the most customers you should develop for them all and there’s games that do but to Kramer one I know about steam, PlayStation, iOS, google play, Xbox, PC, switch, facebooks VR, but then from there you can develope for different gen consoles. PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5. There’s quite a bit.
To add, PlayStation and Xbox both have a 30% that developers pay as well