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Eric Schmidt on Google Now for iOS: 'You'll Need to Discuss That With Apple' [Updated]

SILen(e said:
They have been called stupid sheep or more recently iSheep, brainless or "disciples" (translation from the word that is used most often in German boards, Apple-Jünger").
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Don't forget the ever-popular "Apple Cult."

And even in the mainstream press, journalists can't seem to avoid "Apple Faithful" or "Apple Devotees" whenever they write about the company. It can't be about great products, you see. It's gotta be about some kind of magical brainwashing or religious fervor.

Speaking of religious fervor, when do we get to start hearing about the "Google Cult?" Because their fans certainly make a lot more noise on the Web these days. Verge, Engadget, Wired, CNET, Gizmodo...I can't even come to MacRumors without hearing about how "teh awesome" Android is and how much Apple sucks at pretty much everything.

SILen(e said:
So please explain again WHICH SIDE has sooo much hate?!
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Fortunately this forum has an Ignore list so I don't have to read the vitriol from some of the more dedicated and excitable Fand...oops, sorry...Android fans that camp out here. :)
 
Renzatic said:
I haven't read all that much on it, admittedly, but from what I understand, I thought it was just something one of their programmers threw in for a lark that ended up getting used unintentionally. It did have the added bonus of sniffing out wifi hotspots to place on a map, though.

And really, what could they do with quick snippets of data cherrypicked from driving by a wifi equipped house?
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There's not much they can do with those snippets, but one programmer thought they'll find something they can to with them and it's better to have those snippets and being unable to find something to do with them, then having a great idea what to do with them, when you never recorded them, so he added the code for this.

He told his superiors and colleagues - nobody stopped him.

So it wasn't a rogue coder who added this code without anyone at Google knowing.


Locating Wifi-networks wasn't an added benefit of this, the software was meant to do that.
He just added stuff to that software that was illegal to use in such a large operation.
 
Renzatic said:
Google has yet to be sued directly by Apple for copying any of their patents or technologies.
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Uhm yes, and that proves everything.
Just like Oracle suing Google over the Dalvik VM means that Google must have violated Oracle's copyright, right?

Apple never went after Google because Google didn't sell Android to anyone, but choose to give it away. So Apple went after a direct competitor instead. Easier to claim damages.
Also, it's probably nearly impossible to actually PROVE that Google was more than inspired by iOS, unless of course Eric Schmidt was foolish enough to make written notes about how his information could be used to steer Android's development into the right direction.
Samsung on the other hand was foolish enough to copy the iOS design so blatantly with their own Samsung UI, which made them an easier target.
 
SILen(e said:
There's not much they can do with those snippets, but one programmer thought they'll find something they can to with them and it's better to have those snippets and being unable to find something to do with them, then having a great idea what to do with them, when you never recorded them, so he added the code for this.

He told his superiors and colleagues - nobody stopped him.

So it wasn't a rogue coder who added this code without anyone at Google knowing.


Locating Wifi-networks wasn't an added benefit of this, the software was meant to do that.
He just added stuff to that software that was illegal to use in such a large operation.
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Yeah...I don't know what to think about that. Like I said, there's not much they can do with it as it was implemented, but it's still...weird.
 
Speedy2 said:
Uhm yes, and that proves everything.
Just like Oracle suing Google over the Dalvik VM means that Google must have violated Oracle's copyright, right?
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Or rather they had reason enough to believe they did. Though we both know how that case turned out for Oracle.

Apple never went after Google because Google didn't sell Android to anyone, but choose to give it away. So Apple went after a direct competitor instead. Easier to claim damages.
Also, it's probably nearly impossible to actually PROVE that Google was more than inspired by iOS, unless of course Eric Schmidt was foolish enough to make written notes about how his information could be used to steer Android's development into the right direction.
Samsung on the other hand was foolish enough to copy the iOS design so blatantly with their own Samsung UI, which made them an easier target.
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All that tells me is that they sued Samsung for aping some of Apple's design. It doesn't have anything to do with Google directly.

Apple doesn't have to fight a proxy war with Google simply because they're giving away an allegedly infringing product. If they had reason to believe Google was using proprietary code, distributing copyrighted material, or infringing on any patents, they could easily go after them directly.

It'd be like me discovering the source code to OSX, and selling it to various computer manufacturers to use in their own products, provided they use one of my programs as part of the packaged deal. Apple could sue me for everything I own quite easily. Me giving it away for free means absolutely nothing here.
 
bozzykid said:
That is what he said. He wasn't even putting Apple down. He just said it is up to them to approve it. Anytime someone from Google says anything, people on this forum freak out like the devil is speaking. It's hilarious. Google doesn't want people blaming them for not having the app available yet. It is smart of Google to speak up in these situations. Otherwise the app might sit in limbo forever.
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No he didn't say that. He didn't say that the app had been submitted (he only implied it was) and he certainly didn't give a submission date. He took a shot at the review process without actually giving the status of their app. Turns out that Apple isn't even reviewing any Google Apps right now, so how should Apple even know when it will be approved?

Remember when they said they were pessimistic that the Maps app wouldn't get approved? It got approved without a hitch.
 
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Speedy2 said:
Personal emails for instance.
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It's a bot scanning for random keywords. They don't know that you're writing mash notes to your girlfriend, or reading a communique from a terrorist cell to blow up a government building. It's just looking for words within the larger body of text.

I'll admit this is one of the things Google has done to give me pause about using the service. But it's one of those things were the reality is much more benign than than the potential implications.
 
Michael Goff said:
No, you're not.

The ad space is the product.
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The ad space only sells because it is combined with anonymized personal data.

While it's really nice that Google doesn't tell their customers my name, they still read people's emails, track their searches, and, with the help of Android even know where you are. All that to sell "better" ad space.

So it's fair enough to say that YOU are the product. Your habits, your likes, your preferences are being analyzed and sold.

People should be aware that anonymity doesn't exist, if you only collect enough data.
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2012/020212-microsoft-anonymous-255667.html
http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2007/12/securitymatters_1213
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2009/09/your-secrets-live-online-in-databases-of-ruin/
 
paradox00 said:
No he didn't say that. He didn't say that the app had been submitted (he only implied it was) and he certainly didn't give a submission date. He took a shot at the review process without actually giving the status of their app.
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He "took a shot" by saying what is true and every other app developer says?
 
Speedy2 said:
The ad space only sells because it is combined with anonymized personal data.

While it's really nice that Google doesn't tell their customers my name, they still read people's emails, track their searches, and, with the help of Android even know where you are. All that to sell "better" ad space.

So it's fair enough to say that YOU are the product. Your habits, your likes, your preferences are being analyzed and sold.

People should be aware that anonymity doesn't exist, if you only collect enough data.
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2012/020212-microsoft-anonymous-255667.html
http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2007/12/securitymatters_1213
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2009/09/your-secrets-live-online-in-databases-of-ruin/
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They don't read your emails, a bot scans through your emails to find keywords for the ads.
 
samcraig said:
No - that's YOUR interpretation. Nothing he said is factually incorrect, misleading or leading. " Apple has a policy of approving or disapproving apps that are submitted into its store, and some of the apps we make they approve and some of them they don't."

What's leading about that? Any App developer would say the same thing. And again - how SHOULD he have responded. He didn't bring up the "issue" - it was asked.
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The question was not about the app review policy. The app hasn’t been submitted to Apple, why would the app review policy be related to the original question? He state things about the review policy when he was asked about the availability of the Google Now app for iOS, and you call that “he didn’t bring it up”?
 
SILen(e said:
Well, the Apple customers never started this.

They have been called stupid sheep or more recently iSheep, brainless or "disciples" (translation from the word that is used most often in German boards, Apple-Jünger").
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Also never mentioned anything about Apple customers, I'm a customer myself having spent at least $5000 on their products. I like Apple products, religiously use my Macbook everyday and airplay with my Apple TV. Also, iTunes is the only place I buy music from. I did not really get attached to iOS products but still admire what they can do and how it impacted technology today.

What I disagree with is people that spread FUD about Google/Microsoft/Apple/Samsung or any other company because they make this feud between those companies a personal issue for themselves. Fanboys do this and come up with the craziest arguments to prove their FUD. The worst is that they believe in the lies they create themselves even when no source of it exists!

All fanboys are annoying, including those pesky Canon/Nikon fanboys arguying uselessly online instead of taking pictures.
 
samcraig said:
Because Apple always responds?
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No, because Google made a vague statement (that leaves open the possibility that they haven't submitted) while Apple has made a clear one.

Of course it's still possible that Apple is lying, but until Google clarifies, they haven't actually said that they have submitted and that Apple is holding it up.


samcraig said:
Eric Schmidt made a factual statement (doesn't matter if the app was or was not submitted)
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That's an interesting spin. Maybe his statement wasn't false, but it sure seemed like he was hinting that they had submitted. If he said "go ask apple" then it sure as hell matters if they submitted or not.
 
milo said:
No, because Google made a vague statement (that leaves open the possibility that they haven't submitted) while Apple has made a clear one.

Of course it's still possible that Apple is lying, but until Google clarifies, they haven't actually said that they have submitted and that Apple is holding it up.
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Well check out the update to the article. Google has now clarified that they never submitted Google Now to the App Store. Now all the Apple hating trolls really look like fools.
 
Renzatic said:
I think that within the 15 pages that make up this thread, there were probably about 5 apple hating troll posts made.

Not enough to get worked up over.
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Perhaps he means any post that doesn't gush undying love for apple is a hate troll post.
There seem to be a few people on here who don't like a differing opinion and think this discussion forum shouldn't be about discussions
 
Renzatic said:
Are you arguing against me, or some random person inside your head, and projecting them on my username or something?
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You just don't want to give on the fact that Google has blatantly pulled lots of crap. Every malfeasance is excused. I get it, you like them, but it's totally irrational and you can deal with that however you like.

Renzatic said:
I've never once denied that Google collects data on you. It's how they make their money. What I'm arguing is that the data Google does collect is fairly innocuous, pretty anonymous, and isn't good for anything cept statistical data for advertisement. Like people who go to Macrumors, aged 21-32, tend to also visit Cult of Mac, and shop for watches. Stuff like that.
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Yeah, also got that, and addressed this previously, as I already knew where you were going. You: Google = totally honest data collection. I think you are gravely mistaken, and that you're dismissing or misinterpreting a lot of past Google behavior to get to that conclusion.

BTW, how would they know the ages of users? I think you just kinda soiled your own punch bowl. Why are they following people around the internet as well? I think you can file those under personal information. Next you'll try and say that 'someone else does it, so it's ok for Google'. Snore.

Renzatic said:
It's more like I'm telling you how wrong you are.
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Good luck with that. I like reading your epic fails on the Google apology mental gymnastics.
 
slattery69 said:
Perhaps he means any post that doesn't gush undying love for apple is a hate troll post.
There seem to be a few people on here who don't like a differing opinion and think this discussion forum shouldn't be about discussions
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Discussions are fine, as long as they mean:

- Samsung copies
- Eric Schimidt is a thief
- Android is a copy of iOS
- Google invades everybody's privacy
- Testicle dryers are a must
 
aerok said:
Discussions are fine, as long as they mean:

- Samsung copies
- Eric Schimidt is a thief
- Android is a copy of iOS
- Google invades everybody's privacy
- Testicle dryers are a must
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The testicle dryers were at least something new , I'd not heard that before, I'm sure at some point someone will say Samsung are making them and have copied them off apple before apple has even thought of them
 
thekev said:
It doesn't matter as long as they intend to submit an iOS version. He probably just deflected it due to an unclear future for the app on iOS. Presenters often keep things simple to minimize the ability of others to later misconstrue their words.
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Or how about: "We're submitting Google Now to Apple's App Store and hope to have it out to users soon."

That would be simple and honest, but that's not what Schmidt did. He was playing games with a cheap ploy trying to give a bad impression of Apple.

thekev said:
Your goal here is obvious.
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Goal? To dispute the notion of saintly Google?
 
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