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There will be an even bigger risk to margin if Apple decide to not sell in the EU and Europe and kiss goodbye to 25%-28% of their annual revenue.
The EU does not make up 25-28% of Apples revenue. “Europe” does, but Apple includes all non-EU European countries, the entire Middle East, and India in their “Europe” segment. I’ve seen estimates as low as 7% of global revenue (although pro DMA members pushed back hard on that number saying it was impossible despite the evidence being from Apple’s CFO) to 12%.

Apple won’t pull out of the EU to be clear, but want to correct the impression that the EU is 25% of Apples revenue. At best, half that.
 
Those are the figures now, yes. However, overregulation and demographic concerns will affect Apple’s margin so while I don’t see them exiting - they will not release features that could result in fines. Either way, EU consumer will miss out.

Europe can always start tech companies too…
Europe does have tech companies, but different regions focus on different types of industry that suits. America has a rich resource for tech development, so companies base themselves there. Much like teams who want to design and build the best racing cars in the World will base themselves in Europe as one example. The infrastructure and key people are here.

Apple and other US companies that want to monopolise could just trade in markets where that was accepted too. If the iPhone suddenly wasn't available in Europe, don't you think that 25% of iPhone users would just buy another brand? Life goes on and companies like Apple who make $96.5bn a year from the European markets can sell cheaper products elsewhere to make if the difference if they like.
 
The EU does not make up 25-28% of Apples revenue. “Europe” does, but Apple includes all non-EU European countries, the entire Middle East, and India in their “Europe” segment. I’ve seen estimates as low as 7% of global revenue (although pro DMA members pushed back hard on that number saying it was impossible despite the evidence being from Apple’s CFO) to 12%.

Apple won’t pull out of the EU to be clear, but want to correct the impression that the EU is 25% of Apples revenue. At best, half that.
And when you look at it that way...the idea of Apple pulling out of the EU becomes more possible. Still not likely of course. But not as insane as some people think, because if the numbers you stated are correct...the EU is punching way above it's weight class with potential fines and that is the kind of thing that would make a company CONSIDER the insane move of pulling out of the EU. When the fines are more than your revenue in a region, pulling out of said region could end up being a win for a company.
 
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The EU does not make up 25-28% of Apples revenue. “Europe” does, but Apple includes all non-EU European countries...
Hence why I said 'EU and Europe'.
There will be an even bigger risk to margin if Apple decide to not sell in the EU and Europe and kiss goodbye to 25%-28% of their annual revenue.
I live in Europe so understand the difference between Europe and the EU.
 
Hence why I said 'EU and Europe'.

I live in Europe so understand the difference between Europe and the EU.
You may understand, but a TON of people don’t understand Apple also includes the entire Middle East and India as “Europe” - and think the non-EU countries are tiny and don’t matter, so just making it clear to them.
 
And when you look at it that way...the idea of Apple pulling out of the EU becomes more possible. Still not likely of course. But not as insane as some people think, because if the numbers you stated are correct...the EU is punching way above it's weight class with potential fines and that is the kind of thing that would make a company CONSIDER the insane move of pulling out of the EU. When the fines are more than your revenue in a region, pulling out of said region could end up being a win for a company.
Maybe Apple should consider pulling out? If they think they shouldn't be operating under the same anti-monopoly rules as other companies, or are bigger as a company than a group of countries, maybe it isn't the market for them?
 
Apple has a great ecosystem which it built itself. But once that grand plus has exchanged hands, the device is yours, to do with what you want. Apple should not have a say after the fact, certainly not the absolute say as they currently have.
The problem is that this "absolute freedom to do what you want" is not zero cost. In order to open up iOS and allow alternative app stores, replacement of built-in apps, etc. a lot of code has to be written and integrated and in my view, that's baggage for anyone who doesn't need the Epic store and what not.

I have absolutely zero need for alternative app stores. And yet, Apple's resources are invested into this DMA adventure, for the N% of users who could have simply bought Android if they wanted Android, instead of being invested into further iOS development. All this effort brings me nothing, just slows down the pace of development on iOS.
 
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You need to actually change the region as to where your appstore is. To do that you need a local bank card and a local address.

Years ago I setup UK and Austrian app stores for the 12 days of Christmas promotion. Have to see if they still work. Didn't need a country specific credit card and for addresses, well tube stations worked well.

Technically, wrong. Apple’s margin in EU might be lower due to all the extra cost of all these features, so leaving EU might increase their overall margin.

Now, if you talk about their revenue, yes, and profit as well. But not margin.

True, any added expense hits margin, the question is what steps will they take to make up for any increased expenses and lost revenue. My guess is changing some pricing structures for App Store/developer tools and raise the price for the iPhone in the EU, for example; letting all purchasers pay or DMA compliant compact of profits.

I live in Europe so understand the difference between Europe and the EU.

Add in various territories, Switzerland, EFTA and EEA and the political/economic relationships are complicated, much as the US's.

Edit: update and typo fix
 
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All this effort brings me nothing, just slows down the pace of development on iOS.
IOs isn't just for you, so your needs are not paramount here. If you dont like it, you could consider moving ecosystems to another brand. Or make your own phone. (See what I did there?).

Also, considering the already rock solid yet glacial pace of ios development, I hardly think 'opening it up' will impact on anything at all.
 
You may understand, but a TON of people don’t understand Apple also includes the entire Middle East and India as “Europe” - and think the non-EU countries are tiny and don’t matter, so just making it clear to them.
The Middle East is ~ 9.9 million sq. kms, and India is ~ 3,3 million sq. kms, quite tiny...
The EU on the other hand is ~ 4.3 million sq.kms
 
IOs isn't just for you, so your needs are not paramount here. If you dont like it, you could consider moving ecosystems to another brand. Or make your own phone. (See what I did there?).

Also, considering the already rock solid yet glacial pace of ios development, I hardly think 'opening it up' will impact on anything at all.
Oh my. Telling me to move to another platform, because I don’t like what changes the EU forces on Apple, is just… Yeah, I see what kind of discussion we can have.
 
Don‘t be ridiculous.

What European company would „buy“ a consumer organisation into complaining about inability to delete browsers? Or the Messages app? Let alone have the money, ability and willingness to outspend foreign behemoths like Apple, Alphabet or Meta?
Imagine believing its OK for a governing body to tell a software company what a completely inconsequential software screen in a UI looks like.
 
I admit to not really understanding all of this.

Imagine going into a car dealer. Pick one - Toyota/Nissan/Subaru/VW/Chevrolet/Ford/Maserati. You tell the sales person "I want your Toyota/Nissan/Subaru/VW/Chevrolet/Ford/Maserati but I want a Toyota/Nissan/Subaru/VW/Chevrolet/Ford/Maserati engine that's not what you make. I demand that the installation be easy and I demand that you warranty the car to work exactly as I wish it to with this different engine."

Or, go into a restaurant. Let's assume a pizza parlor. "I want your pepperoni pizza, but I want it with the crust from the place across the street. In fact, I am entitled to this and demand it!" Or, worse, "I want chateaubriand for two. Make it snappy!"

Is that what this is? Please correct me.

When I read that Apple does not make it easy to change default settings, I had to scratch my head.

I have to wonder what the real foundational reasoning for all this is, on both the part of the consumer and the EU.

(Full disclaimer: I really am not a fan of a lot of what Apple does. And, I have told them as much. Didn't help.)
This is biased towards US companies! EU isn't creator! EU is a 'parasite' consumer!
 
Ok, so if it stays on device, what are the privacy risks? Data leaks from Apple or third party apps getting access to it?
I'm not sure what you are getting at here. In the context of our previous posts, Apple is likely concerned about giving third parties AIs access to the same data they are using without putting protections in place to make sure it remains on the device.

Other markets? It’s US, Europe and China (currently declining), the rest of them are not so relevant:

1. United States: ~43-45% of total revenue

2. Europe: ~23-25%

3. Greater China: ~18-20%

4. Japan: ~7-8%

5. Rest of Asia Pacific: ~7-8%

6. Rest of the Americas (Latin America and Canada): ~4-5%

7. Middle East and Africa: ~2-3%
For the record, the EU is closer to 7% of Apple's revenue. (Apple's European segment also includes non-EU Europe, India, the Middle East, and Africa.)
 
For the record, the EU is closer to 7% of Apple's revenue.

Where are you getting these numbers from?

The estimated revenue from the EU alone might represent approximately 22.1% of Apple's total worldwide revenue in 2023, and about 18.2% in 2022.

These are estimates based on the assumption that the EU contributes around 75% of Apple's total European revenue.
 
I wonder if this would now mean that European energy companies will have to allow other smaller companies to sell power in their own power lines or Cellular companies to share their communication trunks with independent companies and Even TV/Cable companies will now have to offer commercials from competing stations and channels.

better yet does that mean that now I can watch sporting events like football, soccer or the olympics on other stations instead of the companies that "monopolize" the content?
1. The thing you're referring to has an English name, and it's called "pure players". The notion of a pure player and the term have extended in Europe to commercial practices where the companies have no proprietary stake in the infrastructures they exploit, but are paying bigger companies for the privilege, and not just for internet providers.
2. Small companies do sell "power" using big companies' power lines. Basically you're doing nothing different and it's another company that does all the commercial aspect of the business, contracts, support, billing, advertising.
3. Cellular companies do use bigger companies' infrastructures and cell towers to sell service at a discount. I pay 8 euros a month for 40Gb of LTE data and unlimited communications plus extensive roaming coverage in the EU at zero cost. 8 years ago there was a "price war" between the 4 big phone companies in France that saw premium unilimited plans sold at 1€ a month for a year, so every year you would switch companies and virtually never pay anything. So they really don't care to pass on all that commercial BS to smaller players for smaller savvier clients and make more money.
4. There is nothing that prevents TV companies from advertising on other TV companies' channels, save for communication about programming. Cable TV, Satellite, and Streaming services do advertise everywhere, included BeIn Sports on Canal+, to name only those, when BeIn is a direct competitor to Canal+.
5. Train companies all run their train on the same rail, which they often do not own. That shouldn't be so hard to imagine for Americans.
6. Big sporting events are not "monopolized" when the rights are paid for, the same way Only Murders In The Building isn't monopolized by Hulu, but can still find a way to be exploited by Disney+ where Hulu has no streaming service of its own (this is an outdated example, as Disney has bought Hulu as of November 2023, I've just learned).

Rules about fair competition don't mean the end of property. It means using competition to drive prices down and create more riches and more investment in infrastructure.

If you look at Apple, you have the perfect example of a company who does NOT want to innovate OR be competitive.
 
You may understand, but a TON of people don’t understand Apple also includes the entire Middle East and India as “Europe” - and think the non-EU countries are tiny and don’t matter, so just making it clear to them.
India too? I was in financial news for quite a while and usually the corporate business region is Europe, Middle east and Africa - usually referred to as EMEA.
 
These are estimates based on the assumption that the EU contributes around 75% of Apple's total European revenue.
That's a bad assumption. The 7% number comes from Apple's CFO, who stated that the EU countries make up about 7% of Apple's global App Store revenue. I can't think of a reason that the EU's percentage of App Store revenue would be any different than it's percentage of iPhone revenue, and I've asked in multiple threads and not gotten a good response (just claims that he "misspoke" on a shareholder call - which ignores the fact that Apple didn't correct the record which they would be required to do on that call.)

Also, the UK and India rank reportedly #3 and #4 in by-country revenue (bigger than France and Germany, for example). Both are outside of the EU but included in Apple's "Europe" market segment.

India too? I was in financial news for quite a while and usually the corporate business region is Europe, Middle east and Africa - usually referred to as EMEA.
Yep - India is in "Europe" - you can check Apple's latest 10-K on investor.apple.com - it's on Page 5 of the 2023 10-K.
 
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Aside from the rather obvious fact that the EU is the base of many tech companies, this comment is rather missing the point.

The point is the power of the current tech leaders is too great. They dictate everything, from the users point of view, the developers point of view, their suppliers point of view, the accessory makers point of view - in some cases an entire country or regions point of view and political points of view. They have everyone in a stranglehold, and they're commanding the entire industry around their products, solely for themselves to gain profit to the detriment of everyone else. Nothing more or less than that.

Capitalism is all well and good, until it gets out of hand. And in some regions where these companies operate, its deemed so. That its not deemed so in other regions or their home regions is besides the point.

It cannot be possible that a company has this much power over the entire segment, and it certainly cannot be possible for said company to have more control than a governing body. Thus, the governing body has every right and every expectation of compliance if they wish to continue their operations in the region.

Apple has a great ecosystem which it built itself. But once that grand plus has exchanged hands, the device is yours, to do with what you want. Apple should not have a say after the fact, certainly not the absolute say as they currently have.

Europe does have tech companies, but different regions focus on different types of industry that suits. America has a rich resource for tech development, so companies base themselves there. Much like teams who want to design and build the best racing cars in the World will base themselves in Europe as one example. The infrastructure and key people are here.

Apple and other US companies that want to monopolise could just trade in markets where that was accepted too. If the iPhone suddenly wasn't available in Europe, don't you think that 25% of iPhone users would just buy another brand? Life goes on and companies like Apple who make $96.5bn a year from the European markets can sell cheaper products elsewhere to make if the difference if they like.
So build better technologies? It was never easy to do this in US but folks found a way…
 
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Where are you getting these numbers from?

The estimated revenue from the EU alone might represent approximately 22.1% of Apple's total worldwide revenue in 2023, and about 18.2% in 2022.

These are estimates based on the assumption that the EU contributes around 75% of Apple's total European revenue.
Apple's CFO commented during a conference call that the EU was around 7% of Apple's App Store revenue, so that's probably a good estimate for their overall share of Apple's revenue. Again, Apple's European segment (around 25% of total revenue in the last quarter) includes the EU, non-EU Europe (UK, Russian, Norway, Ukraine, Turkey, Switzerland, etc.), India, the Middle East and Africa.
 
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So build better technologies? It was never easy to do this in US but folks found a way…
Why though if consumers can get these technologies from established companies? These tech companies in America didn't get to where they are today with just Americans being the best in their field and right now Apple for example comprises of some of the best people in their fields from all over the World.

Why don't Americans build good cars that are desired in international markets rather than import luxury cars from Europe and reliable cars from Japan and Korea? 'So build better cars?' It becomes nonsensical when you apply that analogy to just about any type of product, doesn't it?
 
Oh my. Telling me to move to another platform, because I don’t like what changes the EU forces on Apple, is just… Yeah, I see what kind of discussion we can have.

Oh my indeed. The joke wooshed over your head, as I suspected

I simply reversed the solution proposed by the people who want Apple to control every aspect of their lives. People who believe iOS should be more open are forever being told to 'buy an android', 'make your own phone' or 'move in or out of the EU'

I see a dose of your own medicine tastes bitter.
 
Why though if consumers can get these technologies from established companies? These tech companies in America didn't get to where they are today with just Americans being the best in their field and right now Apple for example comprises of some of the best people in their fields from all over the World.

Why don't Americans build good cars that are desired in international markets rather than import luxury cars from Europe and reliable cars from Japan and Korea? 'So build better cars?' It becomes nonsensical when you apply that analogy to just about any type of product, doesn't it?

Tesla?

And Tesla is the most valuable car company in the world by far, nobody even comes close.
 
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