Face ID Appears to Fail at Telling Apart Brothers Who Aren't Twins in New Videos [Updated]

[Macyourdayy]

Is this the Gate you've been looking for?

 

[SashJ]

If Apple only chose to put a finger sensor in the back everyone would have been happy

People are complaining about the notch and that I can understand cause some people might get distracted by it, but have Touch ID on the back of the phone is so beyond stupid. The other companies are doing it only because they had no clue what else to do and have extremely poor design taste.
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Any bets on how long it will take for MacRumors to update the story?

(Don't get me wrong, I understand how important this type of fake news / FUD is to the bottom line of a modern website. Clicks = $$$. And MacRumors were early pioneers in this area of monetization with their promotion of an unsubstantiated forum comment to an FPP that grew into the fake 'bendgate' story. It's really my own error for expecting ethical journalism in this age of hype and anti-hype.)

Someone else in this forum also admitted that they were easily able to fool the Face ID by scanning 2 different faces during setup. Apparently this fools the phone into allowing 2 faces to unlock.

 

[VenusianSky]

OK, who cares, nothing is 100%. Why is it that society must always try to make something fail or find fault? Why can't we try to find the positive in things in life and not usually always trying to find the negative.

Does this philosophy apply when companies like Samsung, Microsoft or Google release something that is faulty?

 

[Ramchi]

Does this philosophy apply when companies like Samsung, Microsoft or Google release something that is faulty?

Obviously NO!! Everyone could see through the comments and its intent very clearly! That too, we hear it from people after parting nearly $1500 in some places (excluding the prices for protective case, tempered glass, wireless charger, Apple Care etc...). Apple must be really be proud of themselves owning such consumers on their side

 

[Tired_Of_The_9-5]

Obviously NO!! Everyone could see through the comments and its intent very clearly! That too, we hear it from people after parting nearly $1500 in some places (excluding the prices for protective case, tempered glass, wireless charger, Apple Care etc...). Apple must be really be proud of themselves owning such consumers on their side

Is this a real response? The way android users defend their phone, or go over to iPhone videos to talk smack, you’d think those people were paid employees.
Everyone gave Apple **** for removing headphones, the second google does it, everyone turns a blind eye....

It’s nice to see how fandroids will accept change when it’s on their platform...

 

[gnipgnop]

None of the examples so far include the actual set-up of Face-ID on the phone. Why not?

 

[DoctorDoctor]

I call BS on this. I simply don't believe their story.

I don't know that I believe it either.

And on another note I read a theory from someone that said when setting up Face ID the first go round the one brother did it and then on the other go round the other brother did it so it mixed their facial features. I don't know about that but it is fun sometimes to read what people are thinking...lol.

 

[itsmemuffins]

Has anyone tried registering Face ID with two different faces?

1. Does it actually let you do that?

2. If it does does it then unlock two faces?

I’d try it myself but still waiting for my X to be delivered.


Thanks.

 

[Jason83]

Because as a society we learn and improve by looking at failures and faults which in turn makes things better.

Which is exactly what machine learning does in precisely this case! Yet everyone would rather ignore that fact and moan about it.

 

[alohajoe]

All of this irrelevant. What we should all be deeply concerned about is how Apple is caving to the FBI by forcing it's users to their faces to unlock their phones by doing so they give any right to say no to law enforcement. Sadly if we wish to protect our privacy on our phones we have to use a password and that they cannot force you to use. Antother example of our wonderful justice system.
When are we gong to rise up and demand that those contracts of betrayal that comes with every app must be abolished?

 

[bflowers]

I wonder if they are doing one scan each in order to spoof it. It doesn't like big differences (such as my daughter and I), but maybe when I get a chance to have two of my girls try it. It rejects the second face during setup.

 

[andre_db90]

So, yes, it can understand that you've grown a beard and that might have changed the apparent proportion of your face, that's not quite the same as continuing to collect data about your core feature and face shape/ proportion though is it? That's not going to stop it recognising this guy's brother as him in other words.

I found this to be quite interesting.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16373710/face-id-iphone-x-apple-facial-recognition-impostor

I think if the brother continues to unlock your phone using Face ID, it won't be able to tell the difference over time. but the more it learns your face, it might eventually be able to tell the difference?

Time and further investigations will tell

 

[rapicell]

Per Apple, only a SINGLE face can be registered with Face ID. So there's ZERO chance that the brother had his face registered in the device too.

Despite Apple's warnings about twins and siblings, these two brothers simply don't look similar enough that Face ID should have been fooled. Hell, the glasses were key and the glasses aren't even the same shape.

I suspect it won't be long before we have a video of two completely unrelated people unlocking the same iPhone X using Face ID.

Mark

I'm glad you were able to actually understand what I said. You do realize it's not hard to edit video to make it look seamless. Congrats.

 

[mi7chy]

Face ID lacks precision that no amount of machine learning will fix. What it needs is a more precise sensor such as iris scanning which has 1 in 1.4 trillion false positive rate vs Face ID's less than 1 in 1 million.

 

[Macintoshrumors]

I found this to be quite interesting.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16373710/face-id-iphone-x-apple-facial-recognition-impostor

I think if the brother continues to unlock your phone using Face ID, it won't be able to tell the difference over time. but the more it learns your face, it might eventually be able to tell the difference?

Time and further investigations will tell

This is Exactly what it will do as even Apple says it’s a learning machine. . All the idiots who say it’s not secure tend to leave out their important bit of info.

 

[john123]

This is Exactly what it will do as even Apple says it’s a learning machine. . All the idiots who say it’s not secure tend to leave out their important bit of info.

It doesn't help the discourse when you and others call people "idiots."

It's also far too premature to conclude whether Face ID is or is not "secure." A lot of people invoke the term "machine learning" as if it's the same thing as AI (it isn't), and as if it's some magical black-box that cannot fail (it also isn't).

It's going to be a while before the rigorous sort of testing that should be done actually is done by qualified third parties. So far, everything reported falls into the category of teasers and click bait, not scientific inquiry.

 

[bflowers]

I think they are training the FaceID with 2 faces that are similar enough not to get rejected during setup. My girls are 3 years apart in age. We were able to use fake glasses to improve their similarity.

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Has anyone tried registering Face ID with two different faces?

1. Does it actually let you do that?

2. If it does does it then unlock two faces?

I’d try it myself but still waiting for my X to be delivered.


Thanks.

Yes, it does, so long as you have similar faces.

 

[VictorTango777]

Is this a real response? The way android users defend their phone, or go over to iPhone videos to talk smack, you’d think those people were paid employees.
Everyone gave Apple **** for removing headphones, the second google does it, everyone turns a blind eye....

It’s nice to see how fandroids will accept change when it’s on their platform...

Just to be clear, are you denying that there are Apple customers acting the same way towards the other brands and turning "blind eye" for Apple? That is what your first question implies.

 

[Markoth]

If the police are investigating and hold up the phone, just close your damn eyes.

This is not retina scanning. Closing your eyes shouldn't matter much.
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Nope. For the machine to learn from this it would need some feedback loop to tell it that it made an incorrect identification. That feedback doesn't exist so it will most likely keep on doing this.

You don't know how machine learning works. Although the ability to apply negative reinforcement would be useful (i.e. you failed to recognize that guy), purely positive reinforcement is sufficient in most simpler cases of identification, such as facial recognition. Although, that does somewhat assume that a person changes their appearance routinely enough for the machine learning to pick up on their different "looks", or to at least not overtrain on a single look. If not, it may actually lock them out with any significant change (similar to how wet fingers would typically not work with Touch ID). This would take time though, so time will tell if Apple designed this to avoid that or not.

 

[MH01]

People are complaining about the notch and that I can understand cause some people might get distracted by it, but have Touch ID on the back of the phone is so beyond stupid. The other companies are doing it only because they had no clue what else to do and have extremely poor design taste.

What you just said applies to the notch.

Actually the notch is far worse than a
Scanner on the back. It's one of the worst apple designs , if not the worst, and frankly it's beyond stupid . Poor poor design . Stupid thinness over function .
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This is not retina scanning. Closing your eyes shouldn't matter much.

Just tried it and with closed eyes , faceid struggles . Given it's not a retina scanner it should unlock with eyes open or shut

 

[GeoSciGuy]

That was one of glaring issues of Face ID. Apple can say that it’s “overall" false positive error rate is much better than TouchID, however you can’t tell visually if someone has a finger print close to yours (without closely examining their finger print). However you can easily visually see if someone’s face look like yours. Also siblings (twins or not) are much more likely to “look” like each other than their finger prints be a match. Typically people are around their siblings more often than their fingerprint doppelgänger.

This is exactly why I support the ability for users to choose a multiple authentication option.

Users could choose:
Passcode only
Face ID only
Touch ID only
Face ID and Passcode
Touch ID and Passcode
Face ID and Touch ID
Face ID, Touch ID, and Passcode

People that are more paranoid and / or have highly sensitive/classified information on their phones would be able to adjust the security level to their liking.

Why is everyone acting as if there is no way to further improve Touch ID? I'm not referring to under-display tech, although that would be nice. I'm referring to putting in place a higher resolution fingerprint reader that would improve upon the 1:50,000 ratio. Also, if a neural chip can use machine learning to better identify a user's face over time, it should also be able to better identify a user's fingerprint over time, eliminating Touch ID failures after the first week of use.

I would even go further to add iris scanning as another option.
Then we could choose:
Face ID, Touch ID, Iris ID, and Passcode.

By using multiple forms of authentication, we start multiplying those ratios, making the phone extremely secure. Many banks around the world have hesitated to adapt ApplePay because of security concerns.

This would allow banks to choose which verification method(s) they want a cardholder to use.

 

[mi7chy]

Considering that Face ID requires you to look at the phone and touch it by swiping up it makes sense to combine both Face ID and Touch ID as a MFA (multi-factor authentication) system to strengthen it since alone they're both relatively weak and have been defeated by children.

Touch ID defeated by 6 year old
https://www.cnet.com/news/child-uses-sleeping-moms-fingerprints-to-buy-pokemon-gifts/

Face ID defeated by younger brother

 

[Bigsk8r]

All of this irrelevant. What we should all be deeply concerned about is how Apple is caving to the FBI by forcing it's users to their faces to unlock their phones by doing so they give any right to say no to law enforcement. Sadly if we wish to protect our privacy on our phones we have to use a password and that they cannot force you to use. Antother example of our wonderful justice system.
When are we gong to rise up and demand that those contracts of betrayal that comes with every app must be abolished?

Clearly, you missed the update where you push the power button 5 times rapidly and it disables everything but the passcode, which Law Enforcement can absolutely NOT compel you to give.

 

[0lf]

Considering that Face ID requires you to look at the phone and touch it by swiping up it makes sense to combine both Face ID and Touch ID as a MFA (multi-factor authentication) system to strengthen it since alone they're both relatively weak and have been defeated by children.

Touch ID / face ID was / is successful because it is quite seamless. What you ask is a finger print sensor as quick as touch ID, which work with a swipe on screen...
By the time it will be available, neural engine and sensor improvement will make face ID better

 

[maverick2007]

OMG! Shame of Apple testers. This is downhilll for Apple guys. I have cancelled my order after seeing this. I will buy once face is is foolproof. I am good with iPhone 6s Plus for now.
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Face ID lacks precision that no amount of machine learning will fix. What it needs is a more precise sensor such as iris scanning which has 1 in 1.4 trillion false positive rate vs Face ID's less than 1 in 1 million.

What 1 in million I have seen at least 10 cases so far where they can unlock and apple just shipped less than 10 million units