Final Cut Updates in March or April? Xserve Controversy and Jobs on Blu-ray

[logandzwon]

Try lending it to a friend or selling it when you get bored of it.

There is truth to your statement. Digital downloads are licensed to a single person and non-transferable. It is a major downside. However, you don;t worry about how many are gonna get stolen each party you have, nor worry about if your friend is gonna return it =P

 

[Tonepoet]

The root of the issue is the requirement for compliance to a secured HDPC connection despite it not providing any benefit to the end user or content owner. As of now, HDCP DRM is a complete waste of time and money and has been a failure at it's original goal of reducing piracy via analog holes.
Frankly the best copy protection for Blu-Ray has always been the size of the RAW data.
The Blu-Ray consortium should consider this requirement obsolete and allow players to ignore the flag for full quality playback. This would allow options for users to play back content w/o embedded OS support (increasing market share). There are already many third party Blu-Ray drives available and a Mac (and Linux) Blu-Ray media players could be written w/o OS cooperation.

OSX already supports HDCP. The laptops support it through the minidisplay port and the mini even has an HDMI jack.

Also, despite Job's claims, Apple isn't entirely a mobile devices company. A Mac Mini with a bluray player would be rather sweet actually and use a lot less wattage when watching movies than my current PS3. It'd be a near perfect HTPC. Additionally the 27 inch iMac's screen goes to waste without the highest resolution content possible, and even the 21 inch iMacs can benefit. Yes, it does make a difference on "such a small screen" since you're sitting closer to the screen than you would with a TV and are thus better able to notice the pixels. Having it as an option on laptops isn't as important

As par benefits, perhaps it's not so much about gaining so much as keeping the ones we already have. I hate DRM just as much as anybody else since indiscriminately locking up the media in this fashion effectively kills off most applications of fair use for the afflicted media and hurts hardware compatibility/diversity. However as as Blu-ray is the media format the studios have decided upon, I'm at least partially willing to put up with any additional requirements it might impose upon OSX to preserve my interests as a customer. To me physical possession is more than just the ability to put something on the shelf, it's a proof of purchase and a form of ownership.

If the future becomes downloadable content, we can all say goodbye to First Sale Doctrine, since DLC and the second hand market are effectively incompatible. It'd give too much censorship power to the studios, especially if we don't have control of local copies of the files, as things might happen with trusted computing platforms similar to iOS and The Cloud. Even worse, most obscure media would be effectively lost within a generation since there'd be effectively no opportunity to rediscover the media once the original owners lost interest or died. This means no more cult classics and art made before its time, such as the Mona Lisa, might not ever be appreciated at all.

On another note, personally I'd prefer something other than optical media, kind of like an SDHC card since it'd resolve or minimize most of the issues such as durability and space confinement. However no such alternative exists in the movie marketplace and so long as we are using the space on an optical drive like DVD, we might as well use it for whichever optical drive is best at the moment, which just so happens to be Blu-ray. Optical media also has the benefit of being very cost effective to pass around, say if you have friend/family with a dialup/metered internet connection (they do exist, esp. in more rural areas) or if you have particularly large files to send.

 

[edoates]

Not understanding at all why ANYONe would want to watch a BD on a small screen. I bought my first flat screen last summer (46 inches) along with my first BD player and LOVE the damn thing more and more. It's gorgeous and I am hooked. the only reason to put BD players on Mac is for HD editing.

Ding! Give that man the prize. I 100% agree. For portables and iMacs, DVD is just fine - close enough for government work. For the Mac Pro's (and iMac's with the 27" screen), higher resolution playback demands BluRay. 720p is just not it.

And for those of us who edit video (Final Cut Pro, Express, even iMovie), we start with HD content up to 1080P60 now, but have NO off line delivery system. You either compress the C$@} out of it so that it can be streamed at a datarate most users have (1.5mbs - DSL speeds), or to reduce the file size enough that the down load happens before you die (4 to 5 GB still takes a long time; 50GB is a real snooze fest). BluRay, though the discs are expensive right now, provides a means to make and distribute copies HD content in a format that working videographers and deal with: weddings, school plays, etc.

Eddie O

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

LOL, I doubt that.

I have never heard anyone say that they will or will not buy a Mac because of Blu-Ray.

What's hurting Blu-Ray is On-Demand, Premium Cable Channel, DVR's and streaming services.

One of the things that helped to propel the DVD industry was the availability of classic programming in a compact media (DVD). People were willing to purchase these titles a second time (first was VHS), because now they could view them on computers and other devices.

But now people are catching up on missing episodes online, OnDemand or they store entire seasons on their DVRs.

It's a different world. Physical Media is going away. I expect the next victim of this will be GameStop, which will soon go the way of Blockbuster.

My First wish of is to support the avi and OGG media format. My second is to remove the Super-Drive and replace it with a HDD easily ejectable bay similar to adding more HDD storage in the MacPro case.

Solution for new iMac:

x1 Primary SDD or HDD option for OS and Apps storage, launch.

x1 Secondary SDD or HDD Bay for additional storage for media storage.

x1 SDXC slot..

Remove the Super-Drive, its pointless. People who want an Optical Drive, get an external one. I do not want to pay for something I do not use.

When options such as removable HDD, SD and USB Thumb Drive exist why are we still embracing the Optical drive.

 

[MarximusMG]

I bet Jobs loves when people buy Blurays of Toy Story 3.

+1

I honestly don't believe for one second that he doesn't have a collection of Blu-rays at home.

 

[zodqyv]

Blu-ray

The fact is that Blu-ray sales figures are rising steadily. DVD sales are in regular decline. Somewhere between 2012 and 2015 Blu-ray media sales will surpass DVD. Once that happens expect the big boxes to shove DVDs off the shelves as quickly as they got rid of their HD-DVD inventory.

And the next generation will be no different. At some point a 4K optical disc will be introduced and will co-exist with Blu-ray for a few years before it too wins the displacement game for shelf space.

There is always argument that eventually downloads will win and optical media will go away. That is simply not possible any time soon for the same reason it is not possible now. 4K movie files will contain four times as much data as a Blu-ray disc. Enjoy downloading a few of those with your ever increasing bandwidth caps. A decade later 8K movie files will be four times bigger than 4K. It goes on and on...

 

[alent1234]

OSX already supports HDCP. The laptops support it through the minidisplay port and the mini even has an HDMI jack.

Also, despite Job's claims, Apple isn't entirely a mobile devices company. A Mac Mini with a bluray player would be rather sweet actually and use a lot less wattage when watching movies than my current PS3. It'd be a near perfect HTPC. Additionally the 27 inch iMac's screen goes to waste without the highest resolution content possible. Yes, it does make a difference on "such a small screen" since you're sitting closer to the screen than you would with a TV and are thus better able to notice the pixels. Having it as an option on laptops isn't as important

As par benefits, perhaps it's not so much about gaining so much as keeping the ones we already have. I hate DRM just as much as anybody else since indiscriminately locking up the media in this fashion effectively kills off most applications of fair use for the afflicted media and hurts hardware compatibility/diversity. However as as Blu-ray is the media format the studios have decided upon, I'm at least partially willing to put up with any additional requirements it might impose upon OSX to preserve my interests as a customer. To me physical possession is more than just the ability to put something on the shelf, it's a proof of purchase and a form of ownership.

If the future becomes downloadable content, we can all say goodbye to First Sale Doctrine, since DLC and the second hand market are effectively incompatible. It'd give too much censorship power to the studios, especially if we don't have control of local copies of the files, as things might happen with trusted computing platforms similar to iOS and The Cloud. Even worse, most obscure media would be effectively lost within a generation since there'd be effectively no opportunity to rediscover the media once the original owners lost interest or died. This means no more cult classics and art made before its time, such as the Mona Lisa, might not ever be appreciated at all.

On another note, personally I'd prefer something other than optical media, kind of like an SDHC card since it'd resolve or minimize most of the issues such as durability and space confinement. However no such alternative exists in the movie marketplace and so long as we are using the space on an optical drive like DVD, we might as well use it for whichever optical drive is best at the moment, which just so happens to be Blu-ray. Optical media also has the benefit of being very cost effective to pass around, say if you have friend/family with a dialup/metered internet connection (they do exist, esp. in more rural areas) or if you have particularly large files to send.

over the weekend someone was telling me how the next generation of consoles will only be downloadable games and how that is the future. then i told him how i went to gamestop and did the buy 2 get one free on pre-owned games sale. or how you can lend physical media to other people

 

[KnightWRX]

Actually, Apple is the largest single retailer of music;
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008/04/03itunes.html

However, if you mean total CDs vs total DDL then, ya your 100% correct.

What did you think I meant ? Apple being the single largest download source doesn't mean CDs still don't outsell downloads.

And let's be frank, if CDs still outsell downloads at this point, it says quite a bit about the normal consumer. The Internet infrastructure to download music is more than adequate and has been here for 10 years at the level required. Yet here we are, in 2011 and CDs are still very much alive.

How long before movies reach the same point ? We're still not at the point where the Internet infrastructure is even capable of it on a global scale.

My iTunes library alone is about 100 gb. There's no feasible way right now to back up anything of that size, except onto another hard drive (or to span 2 dozen DVDs).

That's why enterprises use Tape and not optical media. But for a consumer, optical media is safer than hard drives if a bit less convenient.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

Ding! Give that man the prize. I 100% agree. For portables and iMacs, DVD is just fine - close enough for government work. For the Mac Pro's (and iMac's with the 27" screen), higher resolution playback demands BluRay. 720p is just not it.

And for those of us who edit video (Final Cut Pro, Express, even iMovie), we start with HD content up to 1080P60 now, but have NO off line delivery system. You either compress the C$@} out of it so that it can be streamed at a datarate most users have (1.5mbs - DSL speeds), or to reduce the file size enough that the down load happens before you die (4 to 5 GB still takes a long time; 50GB is a real snooze fest). BluRay, though the discs are expensive right now, provides a means to make and distribute copies HD content in a format that working videographers and deal with: weddings, school plays, etc.

Eddie O

However, Blu-Ray Discs, DVD Discs, Compact Discs are not "GREEN" for .

To produce a Disc it takes a lot of energy pre-production/post-production/production/transportation/etc, , harmful chemicals and other things that it does not jive with the GREEN marketing and image.

 

[zodqyv]

over the weekend someone was telling me how the next generation of consoles will only be downloadable games and how that is the future. then i told him how i went to gamestop and did the buy 2 get one free on pre-owned games sale. or how you can lend physical media to other people

That's the point. The console and software companies don't want you to be able to trade in your old games, and they definitely don't want you to lend your physical media to other people.

Sony has recently stated something to the effect that the next generation Playstation will still be optical media based, but they are hoping it will be the last.

 

[KnightWRX]

Ding! Give that man the prize. I 100% agree. For portables and iMacs, DVD is just fine - close enough for government work. For the Mac Pro's (and iMac's with the 27" screen), higher resolution playback demands BluRay. 720p is just not it.

2 things wrong with your line of thought :

- My MBA is connected to an external monitor the same as the Mac Pro is in your example. This monitor has much higher than 720p resolution and thus can benefit from the 1080p resolution. Not to mention it is much better to watch downscaled content than upscaled content

- I own Blu-ray discs. I buy Blu-ray discs. While I can pop a DVD in my Blu-ray player/drive with ease, the contrary doesn't work so well. Hence why having the option on a Mac of a Blu-ray drive is a good thing, even if you're using your laptop's 720p screen, since at least you can watch the movie vs not watching it all because the damn superdrive doesn't read blu-rays.

So go ahead and "agree 100%", you're just being shortsighted. If you aren't yourself interested in the option, it doesn't mean others aren't and you should never campaign against choice.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

What did you think I meant ? Apple being the single largest download source doesn't mean CDs still don't outsell downloads.

And let's be frank, if CDs still outsell downloads at this point, it says quite a bit about the normal consumer. The Internet infrastructure to download music is more than adequate and has been here for 10 years at the level required. Yet here we are, in 2011 and CDs are still very much alive.

How long before movies reach the same point ? We're still not at the point where the Internet infrastructure is even capable of it on a global scale.



That's why enterprises use Tape and not optical media. But for a consumer, optical media is safer than hard drives if a bit less convenient.

It's the mentality of content has not changed. People view content similar to buying a physical book, bread, butter, etc. When in actuality content is digital and is printed/recorded to a physical source (Paper Books, Optical Media) or stored to a physical source (HDD, SSD, SD, Thumb Drive). What is important is the devices used to view and enjoy entertainment. Though in many countries and regions I agree with you. Not feasible due to lack of internet infrastructure. Many people only have sketchy mobile phone service or Sat Internet ISDN types of service that going all digital download is not possible at present give the insane ISP capping, bottle-neck and pricing schemes. However and Company live in California and the lack of internet access is not really a concern. is trying to push things forward, while the industry replies back with its not cost effective and the sort.

 

[KnightWRX]

It's the mentality of content has not changed. People view content similar to buying a physical book, bread, butter, etc. When in actuality content is digital and is printed/recorded to a physical source (Paper Books, Optical Media) or stored to a physical source (HDD, SSD, SD, Thumb Drive). What is important is the devices used to view and enjoy entertainment. Though in many countries and regions I agree with you. Not feasible due to lack of internet infrastructure. Many people only have sketchy mobile phone service or Sat Internet ISDN types of service that going all digital download is not possible at present give the insane ISP capping, bottle-neck and pricing schemes. However and Company live in California and the lack of internet access is not really a concern. is trying to push things forward, while the industry replies back with its not cost effective and the sort.

I have cable. 30 mbit cable. With a 120 GB cap. It also costs over 70$ per month. Right now, BD is my best source for quality.

Pushing forward isn't bad. Pushing to something that just isn't there yet is. Don't remove my options until after a replacement has been made available. Sorry, I'm not paying 20$ for something that is stored "in the cloud". Give me a physical object for my dollar.

 

[roadbloc]

What does Apple hope to achieve apart from alienation by boycotting blu-ray?

 

[darthvedder81]

Yes, I use one all the time and it works just fine. If you can't figure out the Blu-ray's menu system, perhaps you need to stick with VHS. They're really no different than a DVD's menu.

Your lame snarky VHS comment aside, Blu-Rays use embedded menu within embedded menu within embedded menu. It's confusing and a lot more complicated than your average DVD. Each studio has their own way of accessing extra online content. There's no consistency to it and on top of that it's slow which makes the consumer just not want to bother.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

That's the point. The console and software companies don't want you to be able to trade in your old games, and they definitely don't want you to lend your physical media to other people.

Sony has recently stated something to the effect that the next generation Playstation will still be optical media based, but they are hoping it will be the last.

You have to consider both sides of the argument:

Entertainment producers have to factor in many costs when selling physical media when compared to digital downloads. Sure you can buy a $60+ Game and lend it to your friend or trade it in for less. However consider the possibility to buy a game on-line for 1/3 the price and unlike if your Optical Disc got damaged or lost, you would be able to acquire it with ease.

 

[billysea]

Steve should just suck it up and accept Blu-Ray already. I know he wants to protect iTunes but he just talking non-sense now.

 

[MacFly123]

For the love of God - COCOA PLEASE


Leave Carbon in the dustbin of history. If Adobe can do it, then so can Apple.

I think this'll finally be the year. It's why the last Final Cut update was so lackluster. They weren't finished with the new re-write so they just threw up a few new features in the old version to buy themselves another year.

If they weren't doing a re-write than the last update would've been more substantial, I think.

I agree! I think we will finally get Cocoa and the new QuickTime X foundation. Now, please remind me, if it is in fact Cocoa does that imply 64bit as well?

That is really all I want with expanded format support for modern cameras and DSLRs and a new UI throughout the entire studio and some Shake baked into Motion! And please stability, more stability, especially in Motion!

P.S. If they are rewriting in Cocoa anyway, wouldn't that logically spell a new UI? Wouldn't that not be much more work since Cocoa makes up the UI? Need some understanding here.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

I have cable. 30 mbit cable. With a 120 GB cap. It also costs over 70$ per month. Right now, BD is my best source for quality.

Pushing forward isn't bad. Pushing to something that just isn't there yet is. Don't remove my options until after a replacement has been made available. Sorry, I'm not paying 20$ for something that is stored "in the cloud". Give me a physical object for my dollar.

Fellow Canadian I know you pain as I have to live with it as well. The problem is not or any other content producer or provider, its the ISP. Bell, Rogers and the others who charge an insane amount for internet and mobile services when compared to the rest of the world. This problem with Canadian ISP have been well noted by many national and international sources. If you did not have a cap of 120GB/mnth believe me it would not be a problem, however Bell and Rogers will try to tell you that new infrastructure cost money while playing caps on the over-priced service so that they can stuff they own services to you (on-Demand). Many rural areas in Canada are lucky to even have a party-line.

 

[KnightWRX]

Your lame snarky VHS comment aside, Blu-Rays use embedded menu within embedded menu within embedded menu. It's confusing and a lot more complicated than your average DVD. Each studio has their own way of accessing extra online content. There's no consistency to it and on top of that it's slow which makes the consumer just not want to bother.

I have found the menus on Blu-ray discs to not be very confusing. Usually, like DVD, they have 4 options : Play - Audio setup - Special Features - Scene Selection as the top menu and what you find under these are pretty much your standard fare.

Look, maybe it's because I've played video games all my life, but navigating menus is not confusing at all, even if it's not consistent. There's no consistency to UIs and choices in video games and people figure it out without requiring a 16 hour instructor led course.

I think you're blowing the whole "problem" way out of proportion.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

Steve should just suck it up and accept Blu-Ray already. I know he wants to protect iTunes but he just talking non-sense now.

I believe what you really mean is and Company along with Steve Jobs should support the Blu-Ray format. Support is different when compared to including the physical drive.

Believe me, this is one thing that I disagree with on support the format, do not need to include the physical thing. Many 3rd party Blu-Ray drive have been available for years for Mac OS X and authoring software, however Mac OS will not be able natively read any of it only write. While is at it include AVI and OGG to the list.

 

[bushido]

Your lame snarky VHS comment aside, Blu-Rays use embedded menu within embedded menu within embedded menu. It's confusing and a lot more complicated than your average DVD. Each studio has their own way of accessing extra online content. There's no consistency to it and on top of that it's slow which makes the consumer just not want to bother.

u must be really lazy most of my BDs even start the movie without clicking ANYTHING and the menu is just a pop up choice during the movie and even if they start with a menu, i dont think clicking "play movie" is that hard, even my mum manages that who cant even turn on a computer

 

[JAT]

Yes, it's called HDCP and I'm tired of pointing it out. This is the same for both Blu-ray and iTunes, people need to get over the "DRM that extends passed the application and into the hardware!" it's already here on Macs.

That is not the only issue. How does the Analog Sunset affect VGA output on compatible Windows machines? AACS, as of 2 days ago, dictates that no devices be built that can output AACS-protected content on analog. I forget if that refers only to component video or to VGA, as well.

AACS is the worst DRM that has become popular in any form of usage. It DOES extend to hardware.

 

[Ed A.]

All I want is for Apple to provide native AVCHD support, instead of requiring transcoding

Blu-ray would be nice, especially for archiving video projects, but native AVCHD support is what I really need. I just bought a Sony NX5U AVCHD camcorder and want to use it as my main camera, replacing my tape based XH-A1. That would be much more practical if transferring a couple hours of video to FCP was near instantaneous instead of transcoding taking about the same as realtime.

 

[alent1234]

You have to consider both sides of the argument:

Entertainment producers have to factor in many costs when selling physical media when compared to digital downloads. Sure you can buy a $60+ Game and lend it to your friend or trade it in for less. However consider the possibility to buy a game on-line for 1/3 the price and unlike if your Optical Disc got damaged or lost, you would be able to acquire it with ease.

except there are no discounts on digital purchases of games when they first come out

a cousin of mine's kid likes one of my x-box games. few weeks ago i took it over to his house while i visited his parents so he could play. until i can do this with digital media, all i'm going to buy is 5 year old games on steam for $5 a piece