Final Cut Updates in March or April? Xserve Controversy and Jobs on Blu-ray

[Mistrblank]

Hopefully we don't get Final Cut Prosumer come the Spring.

Furthermore..."ashamed" to be associated with Blu-Ray? Jobs is committing a sin by going against it. The medium, I think, is great. No doubt, it's tricky to produce but worth the effort. Am I wrong?

Yes.

I don't want another disk medium. I just went through all of the effort converting my DVDs to files that are perfect. Why would I want to fill the freed space with Blu-ray disks? I can get HD movie streams from iTunes or Netflix, I can buy HD movie files from Amazon and iTunes and the sizes aren't overly large. I'm with Job's on this, if we've eliminated the CD for music downloads, the next step is eliminate the movie disk for movie downloads.

 

[layte]

I remember reading somewhere (I believe on this very forum) a while back about somebody who was unable to play back an iTunes movie on his projector as it did not like that they were using the analogue VGA output. So obviously OSX already has content protection schemes inplace.

So much for bag of hurt.

 

[KnightWRX]

Have any of you actually used a Blu-Ray player?

Sounds like you haven't. Learn a new operating system for each disc ? What are you smoking. The menu system has mostly the same options as DVD discs have. There's nothing complicated or convulted about it.

Not to mention slow and buggy ? My PS3 and my LG BD570C work flawlessly and aren't slow at all.

 

[08380728]

Final Cut had better be bloody re-written in Cocoa. The application has a dreadful GUI with some System 7 widgets and icons in places. The menu structure has grown into a huge mess and performance is appalling.

 

[KnightWRX]

I remember reading somewhere (I believe on this very forum) a while back about somebody who was unable to play back an iTunes movie on his projector as it did not like that they were using the analogue VGA output. So obviously OSX already has content protection schemes inplace.

So much for bag of hurt.

Yes, it's called HDCP and I'm tired of pointing it out. This is the same for both Blu-ray and iTunes, people need to get over the "DRM that extends passed the application and into the hardware!" it's already here on Macs.

 

[neuropsychguy]

All I want is for Apple to provide native AVCHD support, instead of requiring transcoding into Apple Intermediate Codec (tantamount to an admission of failure, in this age of HD camcorders).

As a result I am seriously considering dual-booting Windows 7 on my MBP so I can import and edit AVCHD video clips (by copying the .MTS files, not by importing into iMovie libraries in AIC).

It's not fair to compare the "free" iMovie to Premiere. At least compare Final Cut Express (which does support AVCHD) to Premiere (or, FCP to Premiere). Should Apple include AVCHD support in iMovie? Just purchase a copy of Final Cut Express. I'm assuming you'd have to purchase Win 7 and Premiere if you wanted to do the same thing on a dual booted Mac. FCE would be cheaper (unless you happen to get the OS and software for free from a university/work agreement with Microsoft and Adobe).

 

[German]

Yes, it's called HDCP and I'm tired of pointing it out. This is the same for both Blu-ray and iTunes, people need to get over the "DRM that extends passed the application and into the hardware!" it's already here on Macs.

Yep.

 

[pol0001]

I love these BlueRay discussions

I love these BlueRay discussion. Always going back and forth about iTunes, BlueRay, Netflix etc. Most of you don't know on what a high level you are complaining.
I live in the Netherlands. That means no online video rental and no iTunes movies. (Apple doesn't even sell music videos in the Dutch iTunes stores!) The only legal thing I can do, when I want to watch a movie, is to get out and buy/rent an actual disc.

 

[sysiphus]

Imagine, if instead of a movie, it was a CD, and the current format was cassette. That's what movie addicts are talking about here, and there's no reason for Apple to be dragging their heals.

Your basic point stands, but you've clearly never heard a good cassette recording on worthwhile equipment (think 3-head Nakamichi deck etc...). I've lost count of the number of "audio geek" friends/acquaintences who LOVED cassettes once they heard them on adequate equipment.

 

[KnightWRX]

Your basic point stands, but you've clearly never heard a good cassette recording on worthwhile equipment (think 3-head Nakamichi deck etc...). I've lost count of the number of "audio geek" friends/acquaintences who LOVED cassettes once they heard them on adequate equipment.

Too bad that you had to buy a new cassette each time you listened to it in order to get the same best quality on adequate equipment.

The point is CDs will still sound better than cassettes, on any equipment.

 

[err404]

As for the menu interfaces, well, that was the case with DVDs too...

Just because DVD menu's are crap also, doesn't excuse Blu-Ray.
Streaming is getting better every year, while physical media seems to be getting worse.
Why do most discs force you to watch a commercial about how great Blu-Ray is when you're obviously already using it? Why do you they want to show me a trailer for the movie I just put in? Why did they disable the skip forward button? Why do some movies crash when I my internet is plugged in?
While the picture quality of Blu-Ray is second to none, the hassle of playback seems to be getting worse as time goes on. It's gotten to the point where my wife prefers to rent the DVD versions of her movies on NetFlix and I will only order the Blu-Ray if streaming isn't available.
I used to avidly collect DVD's, but the convenience streaming combined with the annoyances I've had with Blu-Ray (and newer DVD's) has resulted in not having bought a physical disc in over a year.

/rant

 

[logandzwon]

It's simple. People WANT HD content. iTunes does not have the most attractive pricing for such content when you do the comparison of a downloadable file versus an actual disc-in-hand.

If Apple is not going to lower the prices of the downloadable HD content to sub-$10 then allow Blu-Ray playback and burning natively.

It's also funny that Jobs has issues with DRM on BDR... Have you tried to play a movie you bought on iTunes on a different device at all? Or even try to burn it to a DVD????

-Every movie I rented or bought on iTunes plays fine on my PC, my mac, my mac mini server, the g/f's mac, the kids mac, my AppleTV, the kid's AppleTV, the kid's iPod, my iPad, and my iPhone.
-Blue-ray doesn't play on any of those.
-None of my devices even have a DVD player so I'm not sure what the point of trying to burn it would be. I just enable Home sharing and stream it. Try doing that with a BR.

 

[Glideslope]

I bet Jobs loves when people buy Blurays of Toy Story 3.

LOL, man you nailed it!!

 

[German]

-Every movie I rented or bought on iTunes plays fine on my PC, my mac, my mac mini server, the g/f's mac, the kids mac, my AppleTV, the kid's AppleTV, the kid's iPod, my iPad, and my iPhone.

So you like to be forced to use Apple products/iTunes?

 

[bretm]

Too bad that you had to buy a new cassette each time you listened to it in order to get the same best quality on adequate equipment.

The point is CDs will still sound better than cassettes, on any equipment.

Didn't both vinyl and 8 track have better range than a cassette?

 

[B. Hunter]

All I want is for Apple to provide native AVCHD support, instead of requiring transcoding into Apple Intermediate Codec (tantamount to an admission of failure, in this age of HD camcorders).

I recently recorded a 1.5 hour church Christmas show on a new camera I just bought, which records AVCHD video on SD cards. I was asked by a friend to burn a DVD of the show for her grandfather to watch. No fancy editing, just pull the footage off the camera, trim the beginning and end, burn to DVD.

On my (granted, a bit old) 2.2 GHz Core 2 Duo MBP:

I plugged the card into the computer, opened iMovie. Selected the low-resolution import (half of the 1080p resolution). The import took about 2 hours (e.g. almost real time). The AIC file it generated took about 3 times the space as the original (25 gigs).

Only then was I able to use iMovie to trim the ends, but then I had to export the project to the Media Library at the "large" setting --this took about 3 hours -- and only then was I finally able to use this video in an iDVD project.

Meanwhile, a friend at the church wanted a copy of my footage, so I gave him the memory card. He simply opened up the card in his Windows 7 computer, navigated to the .MTS video files, and copied them onto his hard drive. This took about 10 minutes. He then opened up Premiere, dragged one of the .MTS files onto the timeline, and was able to immediately scrub the timeline and view the footage I'd shot.

Imagine that. Simply copying the original file and opening it, instead of spending hours importing/transcoding and taking up gobs more disk space too.

As a result I am seriously considering dual-booting Windows 7 on my MBP so I can import and edit AVCHD video clips (by copying the .MTS files, not by importing into iMovie libraries in AIC).

Consider that I switched to Apple computers over 7 years ago because of how deftly they handled DV video over Firewire compared to their PC counterparts. I really feel the tables have been turned here. I really hope to see some improvement -- and soon!

I bought Adobe P. Elements 9 for that very reason. The ability to edit AVCHD natively.

I also have FCE. If I need Blue-Ray I just export my project to AP Elements!

 

[OllyW]

-Every movie I rented or bought on iTunes plays fine on my PC, my mac, my mac mini server, the g/f's mac, the kids mac, my AppleTV, the kid's AppleTV, the kid's iPod, my iPad, and my iPhone.
-Blue-ray doesn't play on any of those.
-None of my devices even have a DVD player so I'm not sure what the point of trying to burn it would be. I just enable Home sharing and stream it. Try doing that with a BR.

Try lending it to a friend or selling it when you get bored of it.

 

[logandzwon]

This is what happens when a company want support another technology because of rivalry. We all know Jobs won't support Blu-Ray to promote iTunes. Well, I'm sorry Steve but iTunes does not offer 1080P and HD Audio. Sure some people may not need it, but it is a huge selling point and people are buying Blu-Rays.

Most of the time, Blu-rays can be had for cheaper than iTunes and it comes with a digital copy and dvd.

cheapest combo pack I've ever found of anything I actually wanted to buy was on sale for $27.99.... Most expensive HD iTunes...$19.99. Both are too expensive to buy in my book. I'll start buying whichever can get the standard price to $14.99 .

 

[logandzwon]

I suspect Blu-ray's lack of support on Apple to be a certain pain with professionals, but in actuality with the average consumer it is nothing worthy of any distress.

In 4 or 5 years Blu-ray will probably be relegated to the heap along with DVDs. Though I don't believe they will go quite as swiftly or decisively as VHS tapes, they will be outmoded by a new, better format that doesn't require motors, lights, or rubber bands to make it work.

I think DVD will out last blue-ray. I'll put money on it actually.

 

[palmerc2]

A lot of you are saying that Apple won't puta BDR drive in their Macs because it will cut into iTunes sales.

Imagine how many new customers will buy macs because it has a BDR drive in it. Probably a lot......it could be a major selling point.

 

[Xtremehkr]

Somebody just had to mention 'Blu Ray,' didn't they?

 

[notjustjay]

It's not fair to compare the "free" iMovie to Premiere. At least compare Final Cut Express (which does support AVCHD) to Premiere (or, FCP to Premiere). Should Apple include AVCHD support in iMovie? Just purchase a copy of Final Cut Express. I'm assuming you'd have to purchase Win 7 and Premiere if you wanted to do the same thing on a dual booted Mac. FCE would be cheaper (unless you happen to get the OS and software for free from a university/work agreement with Microsoft and Adobe).

Your post gave me hope, until I read this MacWorld review, which says:

"Part of the reason for queuing material is that Final Cut Express does not import the AVCHD footage natively. As with HDV footage, AVCHD is transcoded to Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC) for editing within the program; this is the same behavior you’d see in Movie ’08 and Final Cut Pro 6. ... The transcoding step does add time to the ingest process. For a simple example, a one-minute clip took 1:34 to ingest on my 2.33GHz MacBook Pro; ingesting several clips totaling around six minutes in duration took 6:27. ... Incidentally, Final Cut Express will not transcode the native .MTS files directly; it needs to take the footage from the camcorder. However, a $30 utility called Voltaic can do the job outside Final Cut Express ..."

Sigh.

 

[logandzwon]

I've never experienced more hurtful DRM crap than the stuff that Apple is selling. At the moment, there are only two companies on the market that sell DRMed product that don't make me feel abused and cheated: Amazon with their Kindle store and Valve with their Steam store.

I almost could get into what you saying, but then you blew-up your own statement. I'm not arguing either service is bad, but to say they are pretty similar to iTunes terms of DRM.

-Amazon store has now multiple times gone and removed books people already bought, paid for, and downloaded to their devices. You can only read the book using the Kindle or a Kindle app Amazon wrote for an approved device.
-Steam is pretty good, but it has MORE restrictions then anything Apple. Your games have to connect to the mothership and report your use, they automatically upgrade themselves without asking your permission, they add and remote features as they wish to completely off-line only games. In at lest one case they completely moved an "adult content mode" from a game people already had installed.

 

[alent1234]

Not for long. It's the future. We're being pushed toward it a little faster than some would like.

if itunes were to offer real HD at say 20GB on average per movie file, where would i keep it once i download it?

 

[merc2605]

Steve Jobs is so full of ****, it's unbelievable. BluRay is a "bag of hurt" because of its DRM restrictions? Then what are Apple's iGadgets and the DRM-infested iTunes (movie) content that he is selling? Mountains of hurt?

I've never experienced more hurtful DRM crap than the stuff that Apple is selling. At the moment, there are only two companies on the market that sell DRMed product that don't make me feel abused and cheated: Amazon with their Kindle store and Valve with their Steam store.

In my experience, Apple is the most abusive company when it comes to DRM, so maybe His Steveness should just shut the **** up. The only reason why he does not want to sell Macs with BluRay players is that he is afraid that this would cut into their iTunes sales. Who needs expensive, DRM-infested and inferior quality movie downloads when you can have better quality on a physical medium for the same price? Right: Nobody. That's why you won't ever see a Mac with a BluRay drive.

I love your post, you're spot on about Mr Jobs' stance on Blu-ray, he can call it a 'bag of hurt' all he wants but every time he says that it just makes me laugh. His lack of support for it is nothing more than a desire to protect iTunes downloads, partly because they are lining his pockets, and partly because he sees digital downloads as the future. I'm sure he's right in the long-term, but at the moment a lot of people don't have good enough internet to stream or download HD content quickly, particularly outside the USA.

It's obvious from a commercial standpoint that he's doing the best thing for Apple, but I don't think he's doing the best thing for the consumer. The fact that Apple are a member of the BD board but don't fully support the technology just makes the whole situation even more hilarious and irritating.