Final Cut Updates in March or April? Xserve Controversy and Jobs on Blu-ray

[DJ Dilbert]

has anyone ever been about to just get around this problem with BR? Away from waiting for Apple to wise up? I mean, if I can play my iTunes library on my xbox 360 without modding anything, you'd think someone has developed a workaround for the blu-ray player.

i dunno...

 

[KnightWRX]

That is not the only issue. How does the Analog Sunset affect VGA output on compatible Windows machines? AACS, as of 2 days ago, dictates that no devices be built that can output AACS-protected content on analog. I forget if that refers only to component video or to VGA, as well.

AACS is the worst DRM that has become popular in any form of usage. It DOES extend to hardware.

Uh... so you're saying that AACS requires an HDCP protected connection ?

HDCP is already here in Macs, stop trying to say Blu-ray requires anything bad to be added. It doesn't, since the protected output is already here and even iTunes requires it to play back content (try playing back content on a non-HDCP link).

AACS is just an encryption scheme. The "DRM that extends beyond the software and into the hardware!" is HDCP. It is the protection to prevent the analog hole. It is supported on every Mac shipped today.

 

[fxtech]

it's not the drive, you have to add DRM to the OS. it's probably a big deal since a lot of OS X is open source and it's against the BD consortium's rules to release the source code for the DRM

Don't know much about security, do you. The best security/DRM are the ones with published specs and code.

"Security" through obscurity is not security.

 

[baryon]

As I said in a previous post, movies in iTunes, I find, often had lower quality than a DVD/BluRay of the same resolution. Plus, many iTunes movies don't have the behind the scenes featurettes, closed captioning, etc. Plus, no resell value for downloads.

As for BluRay versus something like a USB flash drive, I agree, flash drives are easier to use, but are more expensive. Plus, I'm the IT guy at a middle school and I've see a lot of really shoddy flash drives. Some of it may be from the 800 or so hormonally challenged 11-14 year olds, but a lot of it is also poor build quality in the flash drives. But no technology is 100% idiot proof yet 100% usable. Besides, make something idiot-proof & someone will make a better idiot.

Yeah, I wish iTunes provided all the functionality of a real DVD. Probably eventually we will no longer require physical discs to buy movies, but right now iTunes isn't perfect for movies... My parents don't speak English, and iTunes doesn't even offer additional languages or anything, not even subtitles, even if I manage to find a subtitle file on the net. For anyone who doesn't speak English, iTunes movies are completely useless.

 

[JAT]

Uh... so you're saying that AACS requires an HDCP protected connection ?

HDCP is already here in Macs, stop trying to say Blu-ray requires anything bad to be added. It doesn't, since the protected output is already here and even iTunes requires it to play back content (try playing back content on a non-HDCP link).

AACS is just an encryption scheme. The "DRM that extends beyond the software and into the hardware!" is HDCP. It is the protection to prevent the analog hole. It is supported on every Mac shipped today.

That is incorrect. AACS and its ICT restraints are separate issues from HDCP, and only affect Bluray. HDCP is generic for all compatible digital connections. Bluray uses both of these DRMs.

You may be confused because AACS has chosen to use HDCP as its only fully compatible connection.

But "supported on every Mac shipped today" refers only to digital output. Analog is the question. One of my 2 Minis is connected via analog. I may not agree with the final decision of Steve, but "bag of hurt" is not incorrect.

 

[ten-oak-druid]

I remember as a kid thinking how remote controls were not that necessary. They were quite the option back in the day. I mean how hard is it to get up and turn the knob right?

Then I got a remote and my whole perspective changed.

The same transformation is happening with regards to my perspective on DVDs and Blu-rays.

I still like physical media. It seems more secure to me some how. If I lose the digital copy I can reimport it.

But now that I stream netflix or media I own to the TV, I am less inclined to actually use a DVD or Blu-ray. I like the easy access of the data base.

The computing power is good enough to extract DVD media with little effort and time. But the thought of now doing that with Blu-ray seems like a headache. Larger file sizes mean longer times to perform the extraction. Perhaps it is time to just pay for the digital version and not waste the time?

As I stated on another thread, the thing holding me back is that I know Apple will upgrade resolution and add extras to movies I purchase now. The upgrades will not be free. I've seen this with music through itunes. I do not wish to pay for a movie now and then pay a little more a year from now to gain better resolution and subtitles. If Apple made it clear that all upgrades are included in the initial purchase then my decision would be made.

 

[cult hero]

Downloading will never ever replace a disk. No Sirrrrreeeeeeeeee Steve Jobs most of the time lives in the dream world.

Well, someone here lives in a dream world, but it ain't Jobs. Physical media is dying. It's going to continue to die. It's not gonna happen tomorrow. I don't think it's going to happen in the next decade. However, my grandchildren will most likely find the idea of buying a movie on a disk to be as quaint as I find the idea of using a typewriter.

Hell, I've already stopped buying my video games as physical media. Steam is just too damn convenient.

 

[Nuvi]

For those who think 1080p is the pinnacle of image quality then please reconsider. HD will be replaced with "Ultra High Resolution" (or what ever they decide to call them) meaning 4k, 8k etc resolutions. Try to download 4k res files and you soon understand that even with compression the consumer delivery files will be huge. Optical formats will be with us for long time to come. When working with files like these I have 1Gbits pipes and even then it can be pure pain to transfer the rushes.

Regarding BR being "bag of hurt"... Maybe for those who can't even a make decent code for alarm clock...

 

[lilo777]

What does Apple hope to achieve apart from alienation by boycotting blu-ray?

Profits. It's always about profits.

I remember as a kid thinking how remote controls were not that necessary. They were quite the option back in the day. I mean how hard is it to get up and turn the knob right?

Then I got a remote and my whole perspective changed.

The same transformation is happening with regards to my perspective on DVDs and Blu-rays.

I still like physical media. It seems more secure to me some how. If I lose the digital copy I can reimport it.

But now that I stream netflix or media I own to the TV, I am less inclined to actually use a DVD or Blu-ray. I like the easy access of the data base.

The computing power is good enough to extract DVD media with little effort and time. But the thought of now doing that with Blu-ray seems like a headache. Larger file sizes mean longer times to perform the extraction. Perhaps it is time to just pay for the digital version and not waste the time?

As I stated on another thread, the thing holding me back is that I know Apple will upgrade resolution and add extras to movies I purchase now. The upgrades will not be free. I've seen this with music through itunes. I do not wish to pay for a movie now and then pay a little more a year from now to gain better resolution and subtitles. If Apple made it clear that all upgrades are included in the initial purchase then my decision would be made.

I think there is a major flaw in this comparison. Remote control or not - when you switch the channel you get the same content. it's not the case with BluRay vs Netflix. With Netflix one gets about 1/5 of information/quality. In this case, convenience comes at a huge price.

 

[JAT]

For those who think 1080p is the pinnacle of image quality then please reconsider. HD will be replaced

Are you aware of verb tense? Seems to be a big problem in the main Bluray thread. Tense matters. Don't tell me about the year 2020, I want to watch a movie at 9pm tonight.

 

[KnightWRX]

That is incorrect. AACS and its ICT restraints are separate issues from HDCP, and only affect Bluray. HDCP is generic for all compatible digital connections. Bluray uses both of these DRMs.

You may be confused because AACS has chosen to use HDCP as its only fully compatible connection.

How am I confused ? You say AACS requires a protected path to prevent the analog hole. You say Apple would have to add this to OS X/Mac hardware. I'm telling you HDCP is it (something you just agreed with) and that Macs already have it (hence it's a none issue).

That leaves only the encryption portion of AACS to implement. I'm not confused, people thinking that Apple would need to add "something that goes passed the application into the hardware!" are since that something is already there.

But "supported on every Mac shipped today" refers only to digital output. Analog is the question. One of my 2 Minis is connected via analog. I may not agree with the final decision of Steve, but "bag of hurt" is not incorrect.

iTunes DRM'ed downloads have the same HDCP requirement. You can't watch it over your analog connection on your mini. Yet I doubt Steve considers it a "Bag of Hurt". Double standards much ? The argument fails on so many level I don't even understand why some of you keep pushing it.

Not to mention his "bag of hurt" was in relation to the licensing of Blu-ray technologies and not the DRM implementation.

 

[hsilver]

Final Cut Pro

Interesting discussion over at reduser on Mac pro issues.
These are people most concerned with future of Mac Pro and FCP.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=53440


M Most
Senior Member

Next MacPro: Predictions...

There won't be a next MacPro. If I read Apple correctly, they really don't have an interest in tower configurations anymore, and they might not even have enough sales volume to justify a separate "Pro" computer based on it. They did, after all, recently kill the XServe for just that reason. My prediction is that the next MacPro will be the iMac - but a radically reconfigured iMac, one with a built in bus-level expansion system, perhaps based on LightPeak technology as the interconnect.

This would permit Apple to manufacture one form factor, one machine, with standard internals and features, perhaps with different screen sizes, as they do now. Expansion modules would be made available by both Apple and third parties for specific industry needs: PCIe slot modules for things like GPU and special purpose video cards (often the same thing), co-processing modules for adding CPU power and/or clustering, interface modules for things like FibreChannel or 10GigE connections, video I/O modules (perhaps built by companies like AJA and Blackmagic, providing the same functionality as today's PCIe cards, but in a self contained breakout box), and plenty of other things I can't think of....

....SSD's are becoming faster, cheaper, and can be manufactured in smaller form factors than current hard drives, allowing for multiple drive capability in the main case via "pop in" slots on the side of the case, much like the current DVD slot. In short, with Apple's history of innovation and design, I think it makes complete sense that they would eliminate the traditional PC tower design, centralize manufacturing on one desktop form factor, but implement new technologies to allow that form factor to serve all markets, from basic consumers to high end professionals, without compromise....

That's just my own prognostication, based on nothing other than my own observations, and with absolutely no basis in any announced actual fact. Apple has a history of throwing away the rule book when they've deemed it necessary or desirable. Hell, they even changed their entire design to a new processor, requiring a completely new motherboard design, new peripherals, and a complete rewrite of the operating system. And they did that twice. You don't get any more radical than that....

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

except there are no discounts on digital purchases of games when they first come out

a cousin of mine's kid likes one of my x-box games. few weeks ago i took it over to his house while i visited his parents so he could play. until i can do this with digital media, all i'm going to buy is 5 year old games on steam for $5 a piece

It's my understanding that content providers do understand the limitations of bandwidth. It's strange that there are no digital copy discounts, unless there is a restriction in place with other parties that is prohibiting such a practice.

In any case, I hope content providers are taking note and offer heavy discounts for Digital copies as it will be more enticing to they customers.

 

[ten-oak-druid]

Profits. It's always about profits.




I think there is a major flaw in this comparison. Remote control or not - when you switch the channel you get the same content. it's not the case with BluRay vs Netflix. With Netflix one gets about 1/5 of information/quality. In this case, convenience comes at a huge price.

I think it is a perfect comparison. With the data base ready to go, I do not have to get up and put the DVD or Blu ray disk into the player. I just browse my collection or go out onto netflix. As I do this more and more, I get lazy. Its true. Just as it happened when I got my first remote.

 

[1984]

keep in mind that blu-ray's drm is damn near close to a rootkit. Some blu-rays phone home and who knows what kind of data is being sent back. It is kind of spooky.
j

How is this any different from what pretty much every iPhone app does?

 

[Axemantitan]

Is there anything preventing a third-party software developer from making Blu-Ray software and a third-party hardware manufacturer from making either an internal or external Blu-Ray drive?

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

Is there anything preventing a third-party software developer from making Blu-Ray software and a third-party hardware manufacturer from making either an internal or external Blu-Ray drive?

If I am not mistaken, Blu-Ray content require hardware decoding which also involves licensing from Sony. Though sits on the Bu-Ray Board of Directors, it does not licensing it and has not included hardware decoding options. This is why there are present external hardware options however no way of viewing the Blu-Ray video content only writing data to a Blur-Ray Disc.

 

[amanset]

I love these BlueRay discussion. Always going back and forth about iTunes, BlueRay, Netflix etc. Most of you don't know on what a high level you are complaining.
I live in the Netherlands. That means no online video rental and no iTunes movies. (Apple doesn't even sell music videos in the Dutch iTunes stores!) The only legal thing I can do, when I want to watch a movie, is to get out and buy/rent an actual disc.

Yep. It is exactly the same situation here in Sweden. No music videos. No TV Shows. No films. Steve, I may even buy some shows via the ITMS if - and this is a big of - YOU ACTUALLY GIVE ME THE OPTION.

Right now bluray is my only option for HD content.

 

[Nuvi]

Are you aware of verb tense? Seems to be a big problem in the main Bluray thread. Tense matters. Don't tell me about the year 2020, I want to watch a movie at 9pm tonight.

Currently the high resolution capture is commonly around 4k or 8k and therefore we can say it is the pinnacle of quality when it comes digital format resolutions in moving image. Hence, the so called HD is not the pinnacle but its still consumer delivery resolution. Therefore HD will be replaced as consumer delivery resolution in not so distant future.

Ultra High Vision (name used by some) is already in limited consumer testing in Japan and Europe. The actual resolution is 16x of HD resolution (7680 x 4320). When you first time see 8K clips they truly look awesome and I don't mean "Apple/SJ awesome". I mean "its like watching a movie thats really there awesome". Do that in 3D and you have researches saying that it looks too real (and they actually did research about possible dangers of having too realistic image -> 70" window into alternative reality kind of thing)

Regarding the current situation, if you value quality then Apple encoded HD movies can look ok and in some situations like crap. BR has much better quality (both audio and video). With BR you can achieve the intended look far more accurately then with high compression formats. To many film makers its pure torture to go down from 35mm or 4K rushes to some high compression online delivery format. Its like, "you paid to see it so out of professional pride you should have the opportunity to experience and see it the way it was meant to be seen".

 

[alent1234]

It's my understanding that content providers do understand the limitations of bandwidth. It's strange that there are no digital copy discounts, unless there is a restriction in place with other parties that is prohibiting such a practice.

In any case, I hope content providers are taking note and offer heavy discounts for Digital copies as it will be more enticing to they customers.

the big thing today is DLC and that's where everyone is going. buy a game for $50 and within a few months there are $30 of extra maps or missions. the worst is kinectimals. they are going to sell $50 cheapo stuffed toys with codes to unlock animals already on the game disc

and retailers like amazon are always discounting games a month or so after release. day after the holidays ended Black Ops went from $49.99/$59.99 to $39.99

 

[3282868]

My $.02

It seems apparent at this point that the future may be non-physical media across the board.

1. iPod: helped bring digital music to the forefront (along with other digital media player manufacturers). Many ripped their CD's, ditched them and now purchase much of their music digitally online.

2. iPhone: iOS introduced the Apple App Store, failitiating production, marketing, sales and utilization of applications on a broad scale. From games to business applications, the iPhone/iPad/iOS HELPED introduce digital mobile applications to a wider consumer base (iOS/Apple are not the only companies with mobile applications but Apple has been the most successful)

3. Movies/TV Shows: After establishing a strong digital media presence with music and applications, visual media made its presence into the ITMS. ISPs have made strides in bandwidth availability/speed over the past few years, facilitating the access to larger sized media.

4. Mac OS X App Store: in its infancy, applications may be limited in size and suites such as iWork/Adobe CS may split their applications to make smaller applications more accessible for download, enticing more buyers that need one program such as Photoshop. Apple has worked at sreamlining their software to decrease its footprint iimprove overall functionality (Leopard to Snow Leopard). As ISPs such as Verizon FiOS continue to improve data speeds, soon improved bandwidth will allow larger files to be easily accessible (14.4k to ~4-5 Mbps demonstrates that technology will evolve eventually with content).

Many laugh at Apple's commitment to environmental awareness. I challenge any of you to travel to Haiti, China, or any third world nation in which our electronic waste is disposed. Witness first hand how much our consumption of electronics is polluting lands and water tables, leading to disease. Our need for speed and convenience resulting in disposable electronics is at a cost we don't see. Plastics, mercury, arsenic, etc all go somewhere. Apple has shifted their products from plastic casings and screens to recyclable aluminum, arsenic and mercury free glass displays, LED LCDs and are pushing for less physical media.

DRM free digital music is now available and now you can share your music using AirPlay, allowing others to play their music/movies at a friends via their wifi. It's also easy to strip DRM from music content

Why not push for programs that are easily downloaded?

1. Digital media would save companies money in product design and packaging, factories for DVD printing, shipping, and marketing.

2. Increasing consumer awareness and accessibility by suggesting an alternative program would broaden consumer availability and sales. Consumers would save time and money from purchasing directly from your home/office.

3. Online media is much easier to maintain than physical media. Installing applications from the DVD and maintaining a software library of DVDs, serial numbers, boxes, etc is a tedious task. Some companies require original DVDs in order to upgrade to the latest version (File Maker requires all previous versions/DVDs, my clients have 3-4 versions as they need to install one on top of the other for the upgrade pricing). Keeping a purchase record instead of countless DVDs would remedy the issue, requiring the purchaser a one time download and copy.

4. Program backups. Many complain about the potential for maintaining a digital application library. As hard drives have become larger and cheaper, it doesn't require much space to hold the data. One SATA bay holds my media: music, movies, applications for the ITMS and all my programs for OS X and Windows. When a program is updated, I simply delete the older version and replace it with the new one. I keep my purchase receipts on MobileMe and backed up with Time Machine. I back up my data with time machine and with my purchase receipts saved on the cloud and a printed record filed away. Should I need to I can contact the company and have the program easily accessible for download.

This is not a simple topic and there are Pro's and Con's so forgive my long email but I wanted to address everything at once. While movies online do not beat 1080P Blu-Ray media and I would LOVE Apple to incorporate Blu-Ray media into OS X, at some point compression and programming coupled with improved bandwidth would make even Blu-Ray media unnecessary.

 

[dfuerpo]

I agree that all optical media will eventually go by the wayside, but right now nothing I can get over the Internet even comes close to the video and audio quality I can get from BluRay in my home theater. "Bag of hurt" is Jobs-speak for "I would have to pay licensing fees which will "hurt" my bottom line and I don't give a damn what my customers want"

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

No Blu-Ray on Apple devices because Apple wants to push you to get your HD content from iTunes. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with DRM, which can easily be added to OS X. If you can use Blu-Ray drives under Windows then the DRM is not an insurmountable thing.

The other aspect is that you cannot currently get subtitles or captions on movies bought or streamed over the internet from iTunes, Netflix or any other provider. This is a major issue for people in the deaf community who are completely left out of this new technology. For them, DVDs are still required.

 

[archipellago]

Seriously? Jobs has done a hell of a lot of work to get things DRM free. He's always spoke out against it, and has always made it clear DRM was the only way content producers would deal.

no, thats the story he launched to the press.

DRM helped enormously to lock people into iTunes.

Was only when the EU started sniffing around (and he had 70% of the market) that he released the shackles....

the man couldn't 'lie' straight in bed.

 

[tripjammer]

If you own a HDTV, especially the 3D ones...you will have to get a bluray player. Bluray is now the standard...standalone players are less than $60.

DVD is still sold but you have to be stupid to buy a DVD player when you can get a bluray player and you have a HDTV. bluray quality is way better than any other format.

That said....

There is no reason why Apple should support bluray...they are a disc less company...look at the the Macbook Air and the Ipad......they are on the right path for them.

There is no point in supporting bluray...but they need to support all the codecs that bluray supports....especially the AVCHD format.