First Intel Arrandale (MacBook Pro) Processors Due January 3rd?

[Hattig]

Looks like there will be no improvement in battery life over the current MBP line. The TDP of 35 watts+ on the i5 or i7 processors plus whatever TDP is produced by the new dedicated GPUs will mean that battery life will not improve unless Apple comes up with some new clever way to pack more watts in the same size or smaller battery.

Most likely the idle / light usage battery life will increase, and the under load battery life will decrease. I'm not including video decode under "heavy load" there, as the GPU can offload that very efficiently these days.

The 35W TDP includes the Intel graphics remember - and they will be disabled when the discrete graphics are enabled. That could be worth 5W under load.

Also the newer GPUs have lower idle power usage, and need to get to peak usage far less often, especially in normal desktop use.

I would hardly call a dual core Arrandale a ground breaking performance increase as it may be about 30% faster at 2.66Ghz compared to the current high end 3.06 GHZ C2D offering in MBP.

That's a good improvement between CPU generations.

I also want too see a 1680x1050 resolution on the 15" MBP and at least the option to forgo the optical drive in favor of a second HD or extended battery.

Higher resolution options make sense to me as well. I wonder if Apple will move to 16:9 screens with this refresh, or keep the 16:10. You could see a 1440x810 13" display instead of 1280x800, for example. The 15" could have 1600x900. Keeping the vertical pixel count is important IMO.

 

[applesupergeek]

That's a good improvement between CPU generations.

IMO there's no way these chips get a 30% advantage over previous gen. At most a 15-20% one. And it could be even worse seeing as intel who is generally very generous in flooding anandtech and toms hardware the like sites (their paid sponsors) with chips in advance to be benchmarked, hasn't done so for their mobile chips yet. Very suspicious indeed. Maybe they don't want any early posts on how crap the igfx are, but most likely the cpu performance too isn't that great either.

 

[applesupergeek]

Although I don't know for sure, I would guess that Intel graphics does not support OpenCL, or anything fancy, really. However, I would suggest that this is completely irrelevant, because Apple will almost certainly pair discrete graphics solutions to all of its notebooks.

Apple already has a 9400M in all their notebooks, and they can't go backwards. So the no-good-GPU models that had the single 9400 get something better (AMD 4300ish, maybe 4500ish?), where as the decent-GPU models get a 4600ish. (Hopefully equivalent 5X00's, but that seems unlikely)

These cards I expect will be used either completely bypassing the Intel GPU (disabling it might save a couple more watts), or switch between them as high/low performance modes like the present decent-GPU systems. I'm leaning towards the former.

Which will of course mean all systems will happily support OpenCL

BTW, the 9600 is rubbish, you can't deny it. That doesn't make the entire computer rubbish (obviously), but it does severely cripple it in games, and now with OpenCL, will start crippling it in many more areas too. Basically, it makes a potentially fantastic, all-round computer only a great, does-almost anything computer for most users. And makes a potentially 1337 computer get totally pwned, dude, for gamers. (shoots self)

I enjoyed your post. Disabling it completely is an option that does offer some ray of hope here, I hadn't thought of it. Still since my main focus is getting an air, I see little to be happy about with the new intel fiascos. And the air will be a major problem in terms of discrete gpu.

I just can't get over the fact of how these guys force you to have a horrid igfx simple as means of pimping and off loading their vastly inferior technology in gpu, that they'd have to throw down the drain otherwise. I dislike being bullied and that's how this thing reads as.

 

[JTK28]

IMO there's no way these chips get a 30% advantage over previous gen. At most a 15-20% one. And it could be even worse seeing as intel who is generally very generous in flooding anandtech and toms hardware the like sites (their paid sponsors) with chips in advance to be benchmarked, hasn't done so for their mobile chips yet. Very suspicious indeed. Maybe they don't want any early posts on how crap the igfx are, but most likely the cpu performance too isn't that great either.

15%-20% performance increase is what i would expect as well.

While i believe nehalem will be an improvement i think its just a small stepping stone to sandy bridge. That's where i believe we'll see the biggest leap. Going from dual core to quad core mobile processors.

 

[phaedarus]

I do quite a bit of 3D work so the exclusion of a quad CPU is a deal breaker for me.

Looks like I'll be waiting just a little longer pending any nice deals I can find on a 2008 or later Mac Pro.

 

[Shintocam]

Why don't you just go over to that jokers site engadget and post man if you think the current nvidia line up in macbooks are a joke. I am sure you ll find a lot of like minded folk there to commiserate.

But please stop busting our balls here, this is an apple forum, if you think apple make joke products, then get out.

Okay I was not the OP but I think that your message is somewhat indicative of what is wrong with sites like this. Why is it that as an everyday Apple user (MacBook Pro, iPod, iMac) I cannot complain about something I do not like in their designs? Why can I not think that one of their designs is a joke? Why do I have to just drink the Kool-Aid and accept that all Apple does is perfect. If the OP thinks the Nvidia cards are a joke then so be it. As someone who lost my MBP for over a week while the logic board was being replaced due to a faulty Nvidia card and who's supposedly fixed unit is now having graphics problems due to a faulty Nvidia card I too think they were a bad choice. And I'm not leaving.

 

[nontroppo]

Do these intel igfx actually support open cl? If they don't I wonder what apple will do to work around this. Because I don't think they do, and what is the point in bringing on a new tec in snow leopard if the hardware doesn't support it...

Well, according to WP[here], the Arrandale equivalent intel chipset will be called "Graphics Media Accelerator HD", and the specs suggest 12 execution units. Now I'm not sure whether there is something in them that preclude Open CL use but as Open CL is fairly broad (you should be able to use just about anything), I think it would be possible to support them; not to say that they wouldn't be slow or Apple will be capable to write the software.

But as mentioned elsewhere, having a discrete GPU like the GTS 250M would give us a *very* powerful Open CL platform even with an intel integrated chipset -- especially if apple is capable of sorting out the problems they are having using their GPU chips together (use integrated for display, discrete as a compute engine as an example).

Sadly, I suspect we'll get another old generation mid-range option...

 

[iMacmatician]

Okay I was not the OP but I think that your message is somewhat indicative of what is wrong with sites like this. Why is it that as an everyday Apple user (MacBook Pro, iPod, iMac) I cannot complain about something I do not like in their designs? Why can I not think that one of their designs is a joke? Why do I have to just drink the Kool-Aid and accept that all Apple does is perfect.

But if you drink the Kool-Aid then you get labeled an "Apple fanboy."

 

[palebluedot]

Yes, how DARE you criticise Apple on these forums!

Everyone knows that Apple's graphics cards are all cutting edge products and worth every penny we pay for them.

As a gamer who switched to Mac a few years back I must point out that NightFox is right. Apple takes an amazing, expensive, high-end machine and makes it a joke by throwing in low to moderate end old-tech GPUs. I realize Apple doesn't follow the Dell model of constantly upgrading its tech for the consumer to have choice but they could at least make a better attempt at giving users more power for their rather sizeable investment.

Yes, as a gamer I knew I was making sacrifices to enjoy the great software and attractive hardware that Apple produces but I feel that since I am devoted to Apple (as both a shareholder and owner of an Apple computer, iPhone, and plethora of peripherals) I am entitled to criticize our company and provider of glorious divine providence when it comes to the substandard GPU offerings they present at a 500 dollar markup.

 

[applesupergeek]

Okay I was not the OP but I think that your message is somewhat indicative of what is wrong with sites like this. Why is it that as an everyday Apple user (MacBook Pro, iPod, iMac) I cannot complain about something I do not like in their designs? Why can I not think that one of their designs is a joke? Why do I have to just drink the Kool-Aid and accept that all Apple does is perfect. If the OP thinks the Nvidia cards are a joke then so be it. As someone who lost my MBP for over a week while the logic board was being replaced due to a faulty Nvidia card and who's supposedly fixed unit is now having graphics problems due to a faulty Nvidia card I too think they were a bad choice. And I'm not leaving.

My problem is that the op is in general obnoxious and dismissive, and that's getting very tired and enervating. I don't have problem with anyone being critical of apple, I just don't want this to be on the level of the discussions at engadget as this is an apple forum which I also like to think has a higher iq level than the moronic interactions at that other site.

Clearly the nvidia cards are not a "joke" and are not "bargain bin" $50 affairs. It's one thing to criticise and another to make sweeping inane dismissive generalisations. Btw I am aware of some of the previous gen mabook pro nvidia cards being very problem prone, but that does not include the current gen, and it's not because apple purchased them at bargain bin prices, and it's an issue that plagued many manufacturers from hp to sony, not just apple. There are a lot of threads here about this issue, so be my guest and complain away, you ll be right to complain.

Some people like the poster above might require even higher power from their gpu, I respect that and I would suggest that they voice their concerns here and in the apple feedback section. Over time apple -at the time of release- has included some great gpus in their prosumer products, it hasn't been cutting edge always, but it's not been "bargain bin" either.

 

[iMacmatician]

In other news…

Apple follows Dell to quad-core Intel Core i7 CPUs

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
By Nick Farrell
Wednesday, 2 December 2009, 11:48

THE RUMOUR MILL has come up with the tale that Apple is copying Dell's move to quad-core Core i7 chips.
Dell has just released a new Precision M6500 model with a quad-core Core i7 processor and is flogging it as 'the world's most powerful workstation notebook'.
Michael Dell, whose views of Apple mirror his inability to do as well, has actually stolen a march on the fruity toymaker for once.
While Jobs' Mob is forced to praise the dated Core 2 Duos that currently come in a MacBook Pro, Dell has got something with class under the bonnet of his grey boxes.
According to Fudzilla, Steve Jobs is apparently incandescent with rage and has been on the blower to Intel to order up the three new Arrandale chips for the next range of MacBook Pros.
The processors will be added to Intel's Core i5 and i7 lines and their speeds will range from 2.4GHz to 2.66GHz with prices ranging from $225 to $332. A lower voltage model will end up in the super-thin MacBook Air.
We can expect the new line-up in June.
There is another rumour doing the rounds that Apple is planning to install Intel's super high-end Core i9 processors into desktop Mac Pros. It seems that Steve Jobs will be trying on a power play against Dell. µ

June?

The Fudzilla link doesn't even mention Apple.

 

[applesupergeek]

Well, according to WP[here], the Arrandale equivalent intel chipset will be called "Graphics Media Accelerator HD", and the specs suggest 12 execution units. Now I'm not sure whether there is something in them that preclude Open CL use but as Open CL is fairly broad (you should be able to use just about anything), I think it would be possible to support them; not to say that they wouldn't be slow or Apple will be capable to write the software.

But as mentioned elsewhere, having a discrete GPU like the GTS 250M would give us a *very* powerful Open CL platform even with an intel integrated chipset -- especially if apple is capable of sorting out the problems they are having using their GPU chips together (use integrated for display, discrete as a compute engine as an example).

Sadly, I suspect we'll get another old generation mid-range option...

I am afraid opencl has to be specifically implemented in the gpu, and as far as I know only the current crop from ati or nvidia do so. That said I am tending to think now that it would be best for apple to just disable the integrated intel graphics altogether, why bother with a tdp comparable to that of the current nvidia integrated gfx with less than half the performance. This will be very crucial to such power conscious products as the air. They might even skip the arrandales there altogether.

 

[student_trap]

My problem is that the op is in general obnoxious and dismissive, and that's getting very tired and enervating. I don't have problem with anyone being critical of apple, I just don't want this to be on the level of the discussions at engadget as this is an apple forum which I also like to think has a higher iq level than the moronic interactions at that other site.

As far as i know, when you buy a mac you accept a couple of tradeoffs for your OS and unit design, including:

1. not always getting the tech you want in any particular machine
2. a certain uni-directional outlook from apple at times

For the most part we accept this trade and remain happy with our superb OS, although it is often the case that we also get more than what we want tech-wise.

However, apple pushes for mass market, and as such sometimes our needs aren't met by their products. Furthermore, sometimes apple through sacrificing products for line differentiation can be infuriating, and it is everyone's right to complain in these circumstances.

As regards the forum itself, I have been a member for coming up to five years, and had been reading here for quite a while before joining, and in that time I have found the forum to be something of a hot-pot of needs, ideas and desires. There have always been people at ends with certain products (I myself have been from time to time!), but these people are part of the flow of interaction between users.

It is our differing opinions that make MacRumors a fruitful place to take part in or merely browse. The moment that we are always in permanent agreement will be the moment that this site has lost its edge.

So try and go with the flow eh? less of this higher IQ sillyness

 

[applesupergeek]

However, apple pushes for mass market, and as such sometimes our needs aren't met by their products. Furthermore, sometimes apple through sacrificing products for line differentiation can be infuriating, and it is everyone's right to complain in these circumstances.

That's a very good point about the product differentiation. Case in point was the no matte for the 15" powerbook, but they concurred quickly. Or the firewire that has gone from the white macbook to the rebranded macbook pro 13". They were quick to listen to most people there fortunately. It's a necessary evil because truth be told they do have to differentiate their products and one can get caught between the cracks there.

As regards the forum itself, I have been a member for coming up to five years, and had been reading here for quite a while before joining, and in that time I have found the forum to be something of a hot-pot of needs, ideas and desires. There have always been people at ends with certain products (I myself have been from time to time!), but these people are part of the flow of interaction between users.

There is however an usually high percentage of people that come here to bash apple, or have some generalised negativity. And they get a very light treatment. I think some people should respect the fact that this is an apple forum and a lot of people find it very annoying to have some pitch about windows crapware shoved down their throats were they least expected. And that happens frequently.

Just a few pages prior in this thread there was a guy claiming apple are dishonest because they don't let him run os x with psystar or hackintosh...

 

[jcque]

I think that just one of the next macbook pros will have i5. It's because imac has been always better (and just one have i5). Second, Apple can uptade the mbp in January, but when they introduce a new technologie, it's just for the last model, like on imac.
Probably i think that (in january) they will use one i5 (to change the 2,8GHz, 17' and 15')
In Sep/Oct all mbp can have i5,
And in the next year, we can have i9.

But now i think that just one of mbp will have a i5, and I'am waiting for the update of 15' 2,66GHz


(My english, my english )

 

[harmonica01]

Personally, I think that optical media is nearing end-of-life just as floppies did in the '97 timeframe. Certainly for my usage, I am happy to have a DVD drive in a desktop system... but for a laptop (ie: portable)... I think it is a liability to lug around a machine that is larger than necessary to carry an obsolete technology.

/Jim

I agree to an extent. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't apple's laptops sales grown largest among college students? I would assume most of them use macbook/pros as their main computer thereby needing the optical drive. Secondly, until software developers start shipping their products on 10-20gb flash drives there is no alternative to optical media. Thereby, in a laptop, apple will continue to ship all but their ultra portable airs with an optical drive until the shift to newer media arrives.

 

[marksandvig]

I hope these make it into the 13", in some form. I'm really excited to upgrade my 06 CoreDuo macbook...

im right there with ya

 

[pgifford]

I just went from a CoreDuo macbook to the 13" Macbook Pro. There was some weird short in my old macbook; if I bumped it wrong, it would turn off. It lasted 4 years, so I'm not too miffed.
<br><br>
My new C2D benchmarks ~50% faster than my CoreDuo, and the GPU is ~10000% faster(literally).

I have a 5 year old powerbook g4...I can imagine the performance boost I'll get from upgrading...

 

[JTK28]

In other news…

June?

The Fudzilla link doesn't even mention Apple.

That's interesting...

Thanks for the link to the article.

Not sure i totally believe Steve Jobs was irate over this...

However, i personally don't think these will end up in any macbook pro lineup. While these are said to be amazingly powerful, the battery life on these aren't the greatest, and with apple now advertising their 7 hour battery life in their laptops, i don't see how they could take a step backwards in terms of longer battery life. I don't think your average average apple consumer would be happy either. I won't say it won't happen but i'll believe it when i see it.

Although (to contradict myself), if they do update their lineup with these sometime in the summer, it would fall perfectly in line with apple's track record of updating every six months or so. This would lead perfectly into a Sandy Bridge update...

 

[Eidorian]

That's interesting...

Thanks for the link to the article.

Not sure i totally believe Steve Jobs was irate over this...

However, i personally don't think these will end up in any macbook pro lineup. While these are said to be amazingly powerful, the battery life on these aren't the greatest, and with apple now advertising their 7 hour battery life in their laptops, i don't see how they could take a step backwards in terms of longer battery life. I don't think your average average apple consumer would be happy either. I won't say it won't happen but i'll believe it when i see it.

Although (to contradict myself), if they do update their lineup with these sometime in the summer, it would fall perfectly in line with apple's track record of updating every six months or so. This would lead perfectly into a Sandy Bridge update...

Nehalem/Westmere doesn't really fit well into Apple's marketing matrix with the reduced base clocks, reliance on Turbo Boost, and Hyper Threading.

Clarksfield is going to cut battery life but greatly increase performance. Arrandale is probably what we're going to be limited to so that Apple can maintain the high battery life for marketing.

The Precision update shows off a workstation laptop compared to Apple's thin and light.

 

[Rocketman]

You get the best of both worlds™.

http://www.micron.com/about/news/pressrelease.aspx?id=2A5EB2EDEFA2B68E

 

[nick123222]

This really annoys me

I bought a macbook pro 13 just a few weeks ago and I love it , but I am really annoyed that a much better processor is coming out so soon after. Why couldn't it have come out before I bought mine or why couldn't my old laptop have lasted a bit longer . Too late to return my macbook so i'll just have to put up with it being out of date soon .

 

[hamzab]

Alright, so when do we expect these babies to be out?

Some reports saying January, some saying June???

Also, is the speed bumb compared to the MacBook Pros at the moment going to be significant or minimal 10-15%?

And any idea if these things will use the GPU built in to the i5/i7?

 

[eat me]

<..> And they get a very light treatment. I think some people should respect the fact that this is an apple forum and a lot of people find it very annoying to have some pitch about windows crapware shoved down their throats were they least expected.

I think it's time you should calm down and grow up. Silly fanboys like you are the ones getting a light treatment, bearing in mind how much nonsense you splatter across countless blogs and forums (both on Apple and MS/Zune/Dell/HTC/etc. side).

Get it in your head - if you can say windows crapware, anyone has the right to say that Apple is raping it's customers with graphic cards from a bargain bin. How hypocritical of you to suggest that people should tiptoe around issues to do with Apple, but can freely bash anything to do with Windows.

Please stop flaming now, people tried to reason and explain to you in all kinds of manners that you are wrong.

 

[gothamm]

I bought a macbook pro 13 just a few weeks ago and I love it , but I am really annoyed that a much better processor is coming out so soon after. Why couldn't it have come out before I bought mine or why couldn't my old laptop have lasted a bit longer . Too late to return my macbook so i'll just have to put up with it being out of date soon .

thats technology for you.

of course, intel could make significantly better processors RIGHT NOW...but that's besides the point.