'Five Eyes' Governments Urge Tech Companies to Build Backdoors into Encrypted Services

[Huntn]

which is why people invented democracy, so that you could throw out your government every few years if they became “malevolent”... of course doesn’t seem to be working so well now-a-days does it....

If the tenants of Democracy are destroyed by malevolent forces in control of said government, then throwing out your government takes on a whole new meaning, that does not work in a court room or a voting booth.

Now this is not my accusation that Republicans are this malevolent force, but when they start short changing the process and standards to push their guy through, we are headed down the path of undermining our democracy. They are two or three steps in the direction I’m talking about. It’s things like making lies a routine means to an end, to fool the electorate and/or hide the truth, to remain in power.

Either they think they will be in charge forever, or they don’t realize that they are playing with a double edged sword. Apparently lies are they only way they can succeed.

 

[Starfia]

How can they deserve it if it doesn’t exist?

You don't think it's hypothetically possible for someone to deserve things that don't exist?

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Ignoring that you’re coming from the position that everyone who doesn’t agree with you is less informed than you and stupid, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. ”Helping the country” do what?
I’m trying to think of some, any, positive change his actions have been responsible for. Throw me a bone here, I’ve watched thousands of hours of Fox News, and right wing radio and local media, and as you say, only a fool would put any trust in political propaganda engines.

As an independent who squawked for decades to everyone who would listen, and more who wouldn’t, that what this country needs is a political outsider to step in and demolish the status quo and shake things up, I am your target audience. Wow me. Anything.

 

[KPandian1]

No, but I think that’s when newscasters on TV ... to pronounce it.

No, the newscasters are not the brightest in any kind of pronunciation! That is their education level.

They "taught" America how to pronounce route as "rout" instead of "root" as in Route 66, vs a team loss by 0-15 was a rout! Root was how it was said in the USA even in the early 90's - now the TV tells us how to say words.

Pat vs Pate - in Patriot. Vitamin becomes Vite-a-min. Semi vs Sem-eye, Hemi vs Hem-eye!

There are more examples.

This is not an "English" English lesson, more an "American English" English recall.

As in pronouncing as America used to enunciate! Going back to how it was.

This is not about Potato and Potato or bath vs bath, the original variations of centuries!

The sportscasters have made even the word defense into DEE-fence.

And, the faux sophistication of detail vs detail.

 

[Hater]

Even companies like Apple and Google can't stop people from backdooring their software when no backdoor is even implemented, so good luck keeping anyone out once a federally mandated backdoor is introduced!

And, the faux sophistication of detail vs detail.

I noticed in old (80's and earlier) American electronics journals, they use the term "solder" like every other English speaking country, but new ones have it as "sodder"

Weird.

 

[jdechko]

Do you honestly think that this would make any sense at all?

It was sarcasm. I thought that was obvious.

 

[Shirasaki]

“Nothing is taken for granted” — from my then high school language teacher.

No one is entitled to have unlimited access to everything, even if he/she has saved “humanity”. However, governments believe they should have unlimited access. Who gives them such access? Do they want to turn the world into a gigantic North Korea or China?

Oh wait, “Chinese also uses encryption while allowing government to access everything whenever they want. Let’s also do it.” Where is the “freedom and prosperity”?

I can hardly believe the world has turned into such a chaos.

 

[VictorTango777]

I appreciate the replies. I agree about the corrupt access (aka psycho shower) and concern for my daughters (which anyone can find out about thanks to social media). But if I’m acting correctly the lawsuit should be strengthened not undermined by my data. Yes I think having an affair would get you, but not because the data was uncovered but because you had an affair.

I’m split in my thoughts of where I stand on this. I just thought that posing a different side could help me gain information to form a better opinion.

A real problem is that those accessing my information are not guaranteed to use it uprightly.

Is this a risk worth taking to expose those not acting uprightly in an attempt to minimize them acting against the rest of us? Would we act better if we knew it was easier to get caught when we didn’t?

I have my problems and skeletons in the closet like anyone else but access my data along with everyone else’s and I’d be surprised if I (along with most of us) end up being the target.

Again I’m split and thanks for the shared thoughts.

If someone files a frivolous lawsuit and loses in court, who pays for the legal fees?

I agree completely, but this surely would go to the Supreme Court if they tried it.

Are Supreme Court justices selected for their impartiality regarding the law, or the likelihood of that justice ruling in favor of the administration's actions?

 

[Sackofnickels]

Any citizen who supports this does not deserve freedom and true liberty.

I agree. Lets trust law enforcement to only use a backdoor to investigate criminal activity. The same government who continues to allow spying on our own citizens, and hides the use of Stingrays, and used to even deny their very existence.

 

[moonman239]

I am sick and tired of hearing about the NSA, TSA, and FBI searching American persons and property without abiding by the Fourth Amendment. Therefore, I propose that federal law enforcement agencies and officials and the TSA be prohibited from searching persons or property without a warrant, UNLESS called to the scene of a crime by a state or municipal law enforcement agency IN WHICH CASE their activities must be explicitly permitted by a local state or municipal law enforcement agency - without the threat of retaliation by any part of the federal government, such as the loss of federal grant money - who must be allowed by the federal agency to observe the search now in progress, including the federal agency's use of software or electronics to search any device on the premises that contains a central processing unit.

 

[VictorTango777]

I am sick and tired of hearing about the NSA, TSA, and FBI searching American persons and property without abiding by the Fourth Amendment. Therefore, I propose that federal law enforcement agencies and officials and the TSA be prohibited from searching persons or property without a warrant, UNLESS called to the scene of a crime by a state or municipal law enforcement agency IN WHICH CASE their activities must be explicitly permitted by a local state or municipal law enforcement agency - without the threat of retaliation by any part of the federal government, such as the loss of federal grant money - who must be allowed by the federal agency to observe the search now in progress, including the federal agency's use of software or electronics to search any device on the premises that contains a central processing unit.

Solution - undermine the warrant process by installing sympathetic judges who routinely grant warrants with low standards of cause.

Another thing: If it is the state or municipal agencies who are conducting searches of questionable legality, who will monitor them?

 

[Heineken]

You don't think it's hypothetically possible for someone to deserve things that don't exist?

Like metaphysical hamburger?

 

[Analog Kid]

Five nations including the U.S. and the U.K. have urged tech companies to comply with requests to build backdoors into their encrypted services

No.

 

[DCIFRTHS]

Yes I do, maybe you should do some research and find your own facts instead of believing everything that you hear on the news. Unbelievable that we still have people who are blind from the truth on what's going on in this world. Looks like the mainstream media has got you exactly where it wants. Here's a start, may want to read up on what Operation Mockingbird is.
[doublepost=1536101825][/doublepost]

Nope, don't believe in any of that.
[doublepost=1536102031][/doublepost]

You seem to get the 1st part right. The government aren't the actual people who call the shots, there's an entity above that which rules, again do some research instead of just believing whatever the media tells you. Donald Trump is technically a part of the government but far from it. He's a businessman not a politician. He's the first president who is actually making a difference in helping our country.

You are the first person to ever make it to my blocked list. Congratulations!

 

[dilbert99]

Yes I do, maybe you should do some research

You did research and I'm assuming found zero actual evidence
[doublepost=1536136795][/doublepost]

Of course unicorns are real - why else would Scotland have it as its National Animal??

come away, i'll set ma haggis on you

 

[Solomani]

As if the name “five eyes” wasn’t enough of a reason to be weary of this terrible idea.

If we poke one of them, does that downgrade them to Four Eyes?

 

[john123]

Ah yes, "catching the bad guys". My god, you're one of the first 2000 members on this forum, signed up in 2001. You've had some years on this earth. How in the hell can you still believe that the American government, specifically their intelligence agencies such as NSA, CIA, DHS, USIC, NIC, NCC etc. have the best interest of the American people at heart? We've seen what the NSA does. These agencies are run by people like you and I. There is nothing innately more trustworthy about these individuals than any other person and we're being asked to provide a backdoor to EVERY piece of communication that we make so these individuals can have a gander? Please.

In my decades on this earth, I've learned that having a "good objective" and a separate "bad objective" are not necessarily mutually exclusive goals.

 

[lazyrighteye]

Creating backdoors will not prevent corruption. It will simply embolden it.
[doublepost=1536211639][/doublepost]

A back door is an open door.

This.

 

[chucker23n1]

The people who support this are factually for the limitation of their own freedom. Therefore they do not deserve freedom.

I’m for mandatory seatbelts. That restricts freedom. It does not follow that I do not deserve freedom.

 

[cwanja]

I’m for mandatory seatbelts. That restricts freedom. It does not follow that I do not deserve freedom.

Why should they be mandatory? If someone does not want to wear one, go for it. You are taking the risk of your own life and not hurting anyone else. Live with the choices you make. Understand the risks of taking them.

 

[chucker23n1]

Why should they be mandatory? If someone does not want to wear one, go for it. You are taking the risk of your own life and not hurting anyone else. Live with the choices you make. Understand the risks of taking them.

Thank you for your feedback, Ayn Rand.

 

[cwanja]

Thank you for your feedback, Ayn Rand.

Excellent job at arguing and defending your point.

 

[chucker23n1]

Excellent job at arguing and defending your point.

Nothing to defend. You have an anarcholibertarian position; good for you. I do not.

For whatever it’s worth, I think you’ll have a hard time finding a general-purpose group where “seatbelts shouldn’t be mandatory” is a popular position,

 

[ActionableMango]

Too many people angry about these governments trying to protect their people.

Wow you actually buy that crap?

Yes, thank god the US government is protecting us from terrorists like Angela Merkel, François Hollande, spouses/girlfriends/dates, Brazilian oil companies, aid agencies, and other businesses.

They have broken the law thousands of times and not been punished. Encryption protects us from the government, who are literally criminals.

Meanwhile, after the deadly Paris Bataclan terrorist attack, the government demonized encryption as tying their hands. Yet it turns out the attackers were primarily sending their messages in the clear, using unencrypted SMS. So while they are feeding you a line about keeping you safe from terrorism, they are in fact to busy to stop terrorists like the Bataclan attackers because they are spying on allies, businesses, and even their Friday night dates.

How about be angry at big corporations getting hacks and having people's information (SSN, name, etc) stolen becuase they can't protect us. I see less talk about that just becuase it's not political enough for everyone to get up in arms about.

The context of this thread is about Five Eyes, so of course we are mainly talking about the government. But you must be out of the loop because there is an enormous amount of talk about losing privacy to Facebook, Google, and countless others. Privacy hawks like me care about all entities getting their hands into everything and doing god-knows-what it.

 

[cwanja]

Nothing to defend. You have an anarcholibertarian position; good for you. I do not.

For whatever it’s worth, I think you’ll have a hard time finding a general-purpose group where “seatbelts shouldn’t be mandatory” is a popular position,

I never said I did or did not support seatbelts - my opinion is not in question. What I did do was pose a legitimate rebuttal to you and questioned your statement. To which you immediate shut down, assigned titles and assumed.

I simply used the same example you used. Given your own statement in the quoted reply - "I think you’ll have a hard time finding a general-purpose group where “seatbelts shouldn’t be mandatory” is a popular position" - you were expecting most people not to challenge you.