Flip Flopping between macOS and Windows

[unrigestered]

Own apps count as bloatware in my book too. Of course macOS comes with applications that many might not ever use too, but so does Windows.
Still i see those as “ system tools“ that I’m not minding too much.
Even stuff like minesweeper or Chess 😂

 

[sracer]

You can remove Number, Pages, etc. There are a lot of features that you can't remove though.

You are now saying something different than you originally said...

Apple does have a lot of programs that come with macOS though you can remove them. There's also a lot of stuff that is just part of the OS that many may not need but I imagine that it's easier for unsophisticated users if the functionality is already there instead of having to be installed manually.

...and we're talking about bloatware... apps... not features.

This is a partial list of apps (not features of the operating system) that come preloaded (aka bloatware) that cannot be removed.

Books
Calendar
Calculator
Chess
Contacts
Dictionary
Facetime
Home
Mail
News
Photo Booth
Photos
Podcasts
Stickies
Stocks
Voice Memos
Weather

 

[pshufd]

You are now saying something different than you originally said...


...and we're talking about bloatware... apps... not features.

This is a partial list of apps (not features of the operating system) that come preloaded (aka bloatware) that cannot be removed.

Books
Calendar
Calculator
Chess
Contacts
Dictionary
Facetime
Home
Mail
News
Photo Booth
Photos
Podcasts
Stickies
Stocks
Voice Memos
Weather

What I said is completely consistent.

 

[sracer]

What I said is completely consistent.

No, it's not, but you are free to believe that. I have given the list of Apple bloatware that cannot be removed, contrary to your previous post. That will be helpful for anyone following this thread who is left wondering why they can't delete something like the Stocks app.

 

[pshufd]

No, it's not, but you are free to believe that. I have given the list of Apple bloatware that cannot be removed, contrary to your previous post. That will be helpful for anyone following this thread who is left wondering why they can't delete something like the Stocks app.

I said that there was stuff that you could remove and stuff that you can't remove. If you think that's untrue, then that is your problem.

 

[maflynn]

Own apps count as bloatware in my book too. Of course macOS comes with applications that many might not ever use too, but so does Windows.

Ok, then just format and reinstall windows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I provided a list that doesn't include bloat, some of the apps that vendor supplies is needed such Lenovo's Vantage have clear benefits to keep.

Unlike true bloatware, its easy to uninstall this stuff anyways

 

[pshufd]

Ok, then just format and reinstall windows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I provided a list that doesn't include bloat, some of the apps that vendor supplies is needed such Lenovo's Vantage have clear benefits to keep.

Unlike true bloatware, its easy to uninstall this stuff anyways

The nuisance in reinstalling Windows is going around and collecting drivers for your devices. Sometimes it's a fair headache if there are quite a bit of them to do. Always best to plan it out but sometimes you miss a few. This part is easier on macOS if you're using Apple Hardware.

 

[maflynn]

Apple does have a lot of programs that come with macOS though you can remove them

Lets be consistent. macOS comes with a ton of apps, and if MS included them in windows, they would be categorized as bloatware.

Are they easy to remove? Yes. Are system utilities used for control LED easy to remove in windows apps? yes. Why would one be called bloat and not the other?

 

[maflynn]

The nuisance in reinstalling Windows is going around and collecting drivers for your devices.

I have to disagree. Maybe back 15 years ago, that was certainly the case, but now its just fire and forget. At worst you may want to go to Nvidia for the latest drivers but I've not needed to collect any drivers for any of my computers for well over a decade.

 

[unrigestered]

Ok, then just format and reinstall windows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I just mentioned that pretty much every brand is seemingly having the urge to install additional stuff on top of the OS in every basic pre-configuration.

Of course not everything is as redundant and intrusive as McAfee, but still…

 

[pshufd]

Lets be consistent. macOS comes with a ton of apps, and if MS included them in windows, they would be categorized as bloatware.

Are they easy to remove? Yes, are system utilities used for control LED easy to remove in windows apps? yes. Why would one be called bloat and not the other?

And I clarified it with: You can remove Number, Pages, etc. There are a lot of features that you can't remove though.

I've been using Windows since the 1990s and macOS since the 2000s. Do you not think that I have a little experience with this stuff?

 

[unrigestered]

I have to disagree. Maybe back 15 years ago, that was certainly the case, but now its just fire and forget. At worst you may want to go to Nvidia for the latest drivers but I've not needed to collect any drivers for any of my computers for well over a decade.

AFAIK there’s also a single commsnd line to fetch and retrieve all installed drivers for later re-installations

 

[pshufd]

I have to disagree. Maybe back 15 years ago, that was certainly the case, but now its just fire and forget. At worst you may want to go to Nvidia for the latest drivers but I've not needed to collect any drivers for any of my computers for well over a decade.

I had to go to the motherboard manufacturer on my last build to update drivers. This was around 2020. Their driver package installed adware which took me a couple of hours to figure out how to remove.

 

[maflynn]

I've been using Windows since the 1990s and macOS since the 2000s. Do you not think that I have a little experience with this stuff?

I have no idea what your skill level is

Btw, I've been working on PCs and Macs since the 1980s, including working at a store, where I built, serviced and sold PCs.

I often hear from Mac people who state something about how hard PCs/Windows is for X, Y or Z and its not. They may be basing it on old knowledge or hearsay or ignorance.

I will say reinstalling macOS is by far easier then windows, to be sure, but reinstalling windows isn't difficult, and its a lot easier then it used to be. I just did it on my Lenovo X1 Extreme (1st gen) last month and I think was done within 20 minutes with zero effort to find drivers. I did however had to google and work on getting around MSFT's requirement for connected account. I wanted a local account.

Generally speaking, with multiple laptops and desktops and being in the Pc world for years, I haven't needed to collect drivers as you stated. I guess my results are not your results, but then saying that we all have to collect device drivers sort of falls into that category, i.e., YMMV

What motherboard maker are you talking about?

 

[Madhatter32]

You are now saying something different than you originally said...


...and we're talking about bloatware... apps... not features.

This is a partial list of apps (not features of the operating system) that come preloaded (aka bloatware) that cannot be removed.

Books
Calendar
Calculator
Chess
Contacts
Dictionary
Facetime
Home
Mail
News
Photo Booth
Photos
Podcasts
Stickies
Stocks
Voice Memos
Weather

I do not consider this a lot of this bloatware. These are features of the OS that are wanted by most people. The calculator app has been a feature of OS since time immemorial. Most people do not want an operating system without any feature capability. Objectionable bloatware is basically third party advertising, games or niche use apps.

 

[sracer]

I do not consider this a lot of this bloatware. These are features of the OS that are wanted by most people. The calculator app has been a feature of OS since time immemorial. Most people do not want an operating system without any feature capability. Objectionable bloatware is basically third party advertising, games or niche use apps.

Interesting. So basically, bloatware is in the eye of the beholder... (because a Chess app is wanted by most people. ) These people also want it non-removable so that they don't accidentally delete it. It's not like there's an App store or anything where it can be downloaded.

 

[Madhatter32]

Interesting. So basically, bloatware is in the eye of the beholder... (because a Chess app is wanted by most people. )

Partially I suppose but not exactly what I am saying. If it comes from Apple it's generally not bloatware. My HP laptop came with a variety of 3rd party software and games. That would be textbook bloatware.

 

[maflynn]

If it comes from Apple it's not generally not bloatware. My HP laptop came with a variety of 3rd party software and games. That would be textbook bloatware.

I think the best way to make a distinction is that included 3rd party applications are generally considered bloatware, especially those that have a hidden cost associated with them, i.e., McAfee or Norton.

I actually don't think the Chess app, or any of the included apps in macOS are bloatware, nor do I think Minesweeper, solitaire, or even the Lenovo Vantage app is bloatware. The latter serves an important function for many people, including managing your warranty.

 

[pshufd]

I have no idea what your skill level is

Btw, I've been working on PCs and Macs since the 1980s, including working at a store, where I built, serviced and sold PCs.

I often hear from Mac people who state something about how hard PCs/Windows is for X, Y or Z and its not. They may be basing it on old knowledge or hearsay or ignorance.

I will say reinstalling macOS is by far easier then windows, to be sure, but reinstalling windows isn't difficult, and its a lot easier then it used to be. I just did it on my Lenovo X1 Extreme (1st gen) last month and I think was done within 20 minutes with zero effort to find drivers. I did however had to google and work on getting around MSFT's requirement for connected account. I wanted a local account.

Generally speaking, with multiple laptops and desktops and being in the Pc world for years, I haven't needed to collect drivers as you stated. I guess my results are not your results, but then saying that we all have to collect device drivers sort of falls into that category, i.e., YMMV

What motherboard maker are you talking about?

I've been working on Apple Hardware since around 1979 or 1980. Also a ton of minicomputers and mainframes.

I don't recall as I haven't used the system in a while. It was easy to install the drivers. It was just hard removing the adware.

I've done hundreds if not thousands of OS installations over the years.

 

[Madhatter32]

I think the best way to make a distinction is that included 3rd party applications are generally considered bloatware, especially those that have a hidden cost associated with them, i.e., McAfee or Norton.

I actually don't think the Chess app, or any of the included apps in macOS are bloatware, nor do I think Minesweeper, solitaire, or even the Lenovo Vantage app is bloatware. The latter serves an important function for many people, including managing your warranty.

I agree with you. This was what I was trying to say. I use the calculator app everyday, along with other apps, and cannot image how anyone would consider it bloatware even if they do not use it.

 

[1BadManVan]

Many don't
Surface as you mentioned.
Razer, only has their app for controlling RGB.
Lenovo, is pretty clean and only their Vantage App.
MSI is pretty clean,
Framework is good.
I think Asus only has Asus apps installed and no bloatware like McAfee,
I think some of Acer's gaming laptops don't have anything other than their own apps.

While Lenovo is fairly clean, they definitely include McAfee in their consumer laptops. I just got one last week with that pre installed, the one I ordered last year was the same. It was a bit annoying to remove but not the end of the world.

 

[maflynn]

While Lenovo is fairly clean, they definitely include McAfee in their consumer laptops

I was unaware of this, my thinkpad and other thinkpads don't have that - at least they didn't

 

[bobcomer]

I was unaware of this, my thinkpad and other thinkpads don't have that - at least they didn't

It's optional on business class lenovos like Thinkpads. During the order process you can select if you want AV or not. I never do because we have our own...

 

[c0ppo]

I did however had to google and work on getting around MSFT's requirement for connected account. I wanted a local account.

Download ISO from MS website. Download Rufus. Go to advanced options or something like that. You can exclude MS account and install straight away with local account. And disable cortana and few more useful stuff in there. Simply create our own installer.

I created one almost a year ago. And simply use that one when I need to reinstall or something

 

[unrigestered]

received my new Win 11 Pro machine today,
offline installation went relatively smooth after consulting google DDG 🤓

retrieved my license key via wmic

drivers updated and extracted via dism

bootable USB stick created, but when i'm trying to install Windows from there using F12 during boot up, it won't show my hard disk: the installation location Window in the setup process stays empty and diskpart is only showing the usb stick?

what am i doing wrong?
i'm using a Dell Vostro with some UEFI stuff in the BIOS that i've never heard of before... back in my days it was just "c:, d:, etc." in the boot sequence in the BIOS 👶