Flip Flopping between macOS and Windows

[LeeW]

But, I do not like little things with macos. Can I get past those annoyances? Let watch and find out.

macOS has annoyances on an equal footing with W11. The issue is that once you get used to the integration between devices which Apple does best (and with good reason) it's difficult to not have them.

Microsoft screwed itself by failing to get properly into the mobile market. They were the only ones who could really compete with Apple when it comes to integration across all devices, not too late for them but then you look at the surface Duo and maybe it is too late.

Google could have got there but stumbled on multiple parts. Samsung is doing an OK job, Dell tried and failed miserably.

 

[keithop]

macOS has annoyances on an equal footing with W11.

in quantity for sure, I think what matters is which annoy a person more? the macos or W11 specific annoyances.

To me, I truly want to use macos for the integration which you mention below but every day I spend working with it is another day of me being annoyed by the OS ui getting in my way. W11 is annoying in a pile of different ways.

It's a bit like having an old banger of a car on the path, call it W11. Stuff won't work properly sometimes but I know how to get around it/fix them and carry on. That new XYZ car, call it mac, looks so pretty and engineered much more recently but sometimes I can't even get the stupid thing to play my music without going through 20 taps/clicks. Everyone tells me that I'm just used to the old car and I just need to get used to the new one.... true but its difficult when I think the new one is getting in my way more!

...and of course that's different for everyone. One of my hates on macos is the double click. On windows if I'm in an SSH session or something and I want to interact with something else I click on it and it clicks through to that app. On Mac, presumably because they're trying to protect me from accidental actions, I have to click into the new app THEN interact and then back again on the other app. All those clicks add up!

Even after many years of talking to people, seems I'm the only one who cares LOL

The issue is that once you get used to the integration between devices which Apple does best (and with good reason) it's difficult to not have them.

exactly! so I keep swapping back to that brilliantly integrated ecosystem and then being annoyed by things I think are worse for my use, swapping back... missing the integration...swap.. and so on

Microsoft screwed itself by failing to get properly into the mobile market. They were the only ones who could really compete with Apple when it comes to integration across all devices, not too late for them but then you look at the surface Duo and maybe it is too late.

yeah I loved windows mobile. In fact for that whole period, I didn't touch apple.... when they gave up on it, it was apple v android and for me back then at least, it wasn't even close.

They're doing good work trying to integrate windows and android but it's still not their own integrated end to end system and it feels that way compared to apple.

Google could have got there but stumbled on multiple parts. Samsung is doing an OK job, Dell tried and failed miserably.

yep agreed.

Right now would be a good time for one of them to step up as I feel Apple have taken their collective feet off the gas. Feels like the pre-cook era advances have now all been executed and we're now in the more boring, slow moving, incremental era. (and even then, more buggy than before)

 

[The point and shoot pro]

in quantity for sure, I think what matters is which annoy a person more? the macos or W11 specific annoyances.

To me, I truly want to use macos for the integration which you mention below but every day I spend working with it is another day of me being annoyed by the OS ui getting in my way. W11 is annoying in a pile of different ways.

It's a bit like having an old banger of a car on the path, call it W11. Stuff won't work properly sometimes but I know how to get around it/fix them and carry on. That new XYZ car, call it mac, looks so pretty and engineered much more recently but sometimes I can't even get the stupid thing to play my music without going through 20 taps/clicks. Everyone tells me that I'm just used to the old car and I just need to get used to the new one.... true but its difficult when I think the new one is getting in my way more!

...and of course that's different for everyone. One of my hates on macos is the double click. On windows if I'm in an SSH session or something and I want to interact with something else I click on it and it clicks through to that app. On Mac, presumably because they're trying to protect me from accidental actions, I have to click into the new app THEN interact and then back again on the other app. All those clicks add up!

Even after many years of talking to people, seems I'm the only one who cares LOL



exactly! so I keep swapping back to that brilliantly integrated ecosystem and then being annoyed by things I think are worse for my use, swapping back... missing the integration...swap.. and so on



yeah I loved windows mobile. In fact for that whole period, I didn't touch apple.... when they gave up on it, it was apple v android and for me back then at least, it wasn't even close.

They're doing good work trying to integrate windows and android but it's still not their own integrated end to end system and it feels that way compared to apple.



yep agreed.

Right now would be a good time for one of them to step up as I feel Apple have taken their collective feet off the gas. Feels like the pre-cook era advances have now all been executed and we're now in the more boring, slow moving, incremental era. (and even then, more buggy than before)

These are the exact same issues I have. Plus right click mouse actions, hitting the "x" only to not close a program, multitasking and snapping programs to areas on my monitors are to name a few. We will see if I can get past these annoyances or not.

What phase are you in now? Annoyed with Mac or Annoyed with windows? Oh, and my 1020 running windows 10 mobile was the best phone experience
I have had to date.

The positives for Mac is shiny new hardware, everything I own works better with it (iphone, ipad, watch) the accessories and neat software available for Mac is a huge draw for me too. I am buying the Macbook air m2 base to see how I like using the os. Hopfully my ms365 software works well with Mac.

 

[maflynn]

It's a bit like having an old banger of a car on the path, call it W11. Stuff won't work properly sometimes but I know how to get around it/fix them and carry on. That new XYZ car, call it mac, looks so pretty and engineered much more recently

See, I think overall W11 works, and works well, so the clunker of a car analogy breaks down (pun intended ). I heard this analogy a while ago for something completely different but it works here. W11 is like a timex watch, it takes a beating but keeps on ticking. Where as macs are like rolexs, beautifully designed but drop it off your night stand and its toast.

Windows has some head scratchers to be sure, but so doesn't macOS, it really boils down to preference and does the OS run the stuff you want (or have too). There's so much stuff that windows can do, that macOS cannot (with regard to what I want/need) that Macs are not my main machine. I still use it, and enjoy macOS but for all of the heavy lifting my Razer/W11 is my go to machine

 

[keithop]

These are the exact same issues I have. Plus right click mouse actions, hitting the "x" only to not close a program, multitasking and snapping programs to areas on my monitors are to name a few. We will see if I can get past these annoyances or not.

I have friends who hate the app v window close behaviour but it's never bothered me. I just leave the apps open I never snap windows in w11 so again not one that bothers me but I know people use the magnet app to "fix" that on macos.

I do think that once we start going down the "fixing" macos when what we're doing is trying to get back to the behaviour of windows, it's a downward spiral to nowhere.... after installing 20 different apps I end up thinking hang on, why bother when I could've just used windows ;-)

What phase are you in now? Annoyed with Mac or Annoyed with windows? Oh, and my 1020 running windows 10 mobile was the best phone experience h
I have had to date.

yep 1020 with win10mobile was brilliant loved tiles.

what phase hmmm..... best described by using windows 11 every day and whilst completely underwhelmed by anything about it, it's working absolutely fine and gets the job done. Outlook sometimes manages to go unresponsive... more of an application problem than a windows one but I feel it's a legitimate moan since it's still MS. Other than that, I whizz round windows getting everything done in a completely predictable way.

In the back of my mind, all day every day, is that I have a wonderful mac sitting there on the desk. fonts/ui looks excitingly better to me than windows. Love apple silicon, love the integration.... love that I have a "proper" terminal to do nice quick traceroutes etc (not that it isnt possible on windows).

swap back, love it unreservedly for an hour or so, start thinking why all the double clicks, why doesn't dock have previews of windows.. why doesn't....... start installing workarounds...... wonder why I'm trying to make mac look like windows, perhaps I should just have stuck with windows. swap back.

repeat

 

[keithop]

See, I think overall W11 works, and works well, so the clunker of a car analogy breaks down (pun intended ). I heard this analogy a while ago for something completely different but it works here. W11 is like a timex watch, it takes a beating but keeps on ticking. Where as macs are like rolexs, beautifully designed but drop it off your night stand and its toast.

See this is why it's a different experience for everyone.. naturally, predictably and completely reasonably. To me, I do manage to see more unresponsive apps on windows than mac and when they do that, they tend to crash explorer, leave black holes on the desktop etc. I mean I can get round it absolutely I can but it still happens.

Either analogy works really, I think we're saying the same thing

Windows has some head scratchers to be sure, but so doesn't macOS, it really boils down to preference and does the OS run the stuff you want (or have too). There's so much stuff that windows can do, that macOS cannot (with regard to what I want/need) that Macs are not my main machine. I still use it, and enjoy macOS but for all of the heavy lifting my Razer/W11 is my go to machine

yeah agreed.

For me personally, there's nothing to stop me using either one. My daily work (cloud server setups, admin, fixes etc) can be done by using the same apps on both platforms.

So basically it comes down to which I prefer to use.... which is why I WANT to put on my rolex but end up reaching for the timex and then wishing I was wearing the rolex

 

[The point and shoot pro]

See, I think overall W11 works, and works well, so the clunker of a car analogy breaks down (pun intended ). I heard this analogy a while ago for something completely different but it works here. W11 is like a timex watch, it takes a beating but keeps on ticking. Where as macs are like rolexs, beautifully designed but drop it off your night stand and its toast.

Windows has some head scratchers to be sure, but so doesn't macOS, it really boils down to preference and does the OS run the stuff you want (or have too). There's so much stuff that windows can do, that macOS cannot (with regard to what I want/need) that Macs are not my main machine. I still use it, and enjoy macOS but for all of the heavy lifting my Razer/W11 is my go to machine

I have two dell systems now. Both my desktop and notebook are touch. I use touch all the time. I know Mac is not touch but I'm ok with that. My two systems now are faster then the equivalent year Mac. I am now not sure if I should waste 1499 dollars on a system I won't like or use. Hmmmm now you all have me second guessing my choices.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

See this is why it's a different experience for everyone.. naturally, predictably and completely reasonably. To me, I do manage to see more unresponsive apps on windows than mac and when they do that, they tend to crash explorer, leave black holes on the desktop etc. I mean I can get round it absolutely I can but it still happens.

Either analogy works really, I think we're saying the same thing



yeah agreed.

For me personally, there's nothing to stop me using either one. My daily work (cloud server setups, admin, fixes etc) can be done by using the same apps on both platforms.

So basically it comes down to which I prefer to use.... which is why I WANT to put on my rolex but end up reaching for the timex and then wishing I was wearing the rolex

I own both rolex and timex. If Mac is rolex then I'm out. Constantly losing time, even on my watch winder, having to go to the dealer for servicing and warranty work, while my timex is keep batteries in it and it's consistently on time every day and rock solid.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

I wish ms would hurry up and make ios in phone link public. I am waiting for that to see if its better than unison, which is flakey at best. I was more solid as mobile connect. Intel messed it up.

 

[keithop]

I have two dell systems now. Both my desktop and notebook are touch. I use touch all the time. I know Mac is not touch but I'm ok with that. My two systems now are faster then the equivalent year Mac. I am now not sure if I should waste 1499 dollars on a system I won't like or use. Hmmmm now you all have me second guessing my choices.

interesting.... I dont use touch on desktop or notebook but I always think I should I do love scribbling

my windows machines both feel faster in day to day use than mac... I think that's down to the UI animations and slower feeling on the mac.

I do much prefer the mac laptops though and always have even in my most windows loving days. Silent or near silent, sleep when close lid actually works, instant on... etc etc... theyre just better for me.

 

[keithop]

I own both rolex and timex. If Mac is rolex then I'm out. Constantly losing time, even on my watch winder, having to go to the dealer for servicing and warranty work, while my timex is keep batteries in it and it's consistently on time every day and rock solid.

it's weird how people have such different experiences... I've got a few rolex and never had a bad one. They've always been really great both in time keeping, general reliability and even survive knocks (even if a scratch would make me cry).

I do have a watch repairer friend though who agrees with you 100%. He says the components are actually pretty cheaply made and inaccurate.

 

[BhaveshUK]

I still use Windows 11 and Mac OS daily. I started out with Windows and switched to Mac OS in 2015 for my personal computing. I still worked on Windows for the most part. As someone who really likes Mac OS, I like Windows 11. It feels more Mac like to me?

I have looked at Android recently and it's not for me. It's just too convenient to have my SMS and calls available on all my devices no matter where I am (and necessary for my work).

People look at me weird when I tell them but I really like Windows 11. But I like Mac OS more.

I've been all Apple for at least 7 years now. However, my new workplace mandated I have to use Windows, and perhaps its the Stockholm Syndrome speaking, but... I'm starting to like Windows too 😵‍💫

 

[keithop]

I wish ms would hurry up and make ios in phone link public. I am waiting for that to see if its better than unison, which is flakey at best. I was more solid as mobile connect. Intel messed it up.

works great for me in phone link... definitely a game changer (although I currently use bluebubbles for windows and android)

 

[The point and shoot pro]

works great for me in phone link... definitely a game changer (although I currently use bluebubbles for windows and android)

I don't have a Mac now so bluebubbles is out for me I guess.

 

[keithop]

I don't have a Mac now so bluebubbles is out for me I guess.

well you could setup macos in a vm on a windows machine! loads of people doing that (but tbh imessage on phonelink is great too)

 

[The point and shoot pro]

well you could setup macos in a vm on a windows machine! loads of people doing that (but tbh imessage on phonelink is great too)

I can't wait till it goes public. It's like waiting for paint to dry. Ha ha. I don't want to screw up my pc going to the preview modes.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

I have tried many times previously to install MacOS on my PCs only to have it not work. I would love to install it on this machine, but with irisXe graphics, it's a no go. My desktop Dell has an nvidia graphics processor, so that's out too!

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I still use Windows 11 and Mac OS daily. I started out with Windows and switched to Mac OS in 2015 for my personal computing. I still worked on Windows for the most part. As someone who really likes Mac OS, I like Windows 11. It feels more Mac like to me?

I have looked at Android recently and it's not for me. It's just too convenient to have my SMS and calls available on all my devices no matter where I am (and necessary for my work).

People look at me weird when I tell them but I really like Windows 11. But I like Mac OS more.

See for me, I never liked getting phone calls and texts from my iPhone anywhere else. I like my phone to be my phone, my tablet to be my tablet, and my laptop to be my laptop.

This is probably why I miss Mac way less than I thought I would LOL. I could see where it would be way harder to give it up in your shoes.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

See for me, I never liked getting phone calls and texts from my iPhone anywhere else. I like my phone to be my phone, my tablet to be my tablet, and my laptop to be my laptop.

This is probably why I miss Mac way less than I thought I would LOL. I could see where it would be way harder to give it up in your shoes.

I like it because I am doing alot of work on my pc's. I want to access my messaging without having to pick up my phone. It's very convenient.

 

[bobcomer]

See this is why it's a different experience for everyone.. naturally, predictably and completely reasonably. To me, I do manage to see more unresponsive apps on windows than mac and when they do that, they tend to crash explorer, leave black holes on the desktop etc. I mean I can get round it absolutely I can but it still happens.

My 27" iMac running Ventura did this just yesterday, finder locked up, desktop locked up but I could switch between some of the apps and using them. Couldn't even reboot, had to hold the power button in to power off.

I've seen it in windows but have usually gotten out of it by ctrl-alt-del to bring up task manager, kill all explorer.exe's, kill the app that locked up, then use the task manager to relaunch explorer.exe. I tried the same on the iMac using the force quit dialog, and it kind of worked except it locked up right away again.

I bet nobody here remembers how well (not) OS/2 handled that. (and I actually liked OS/2 more than windows by a lot back then!!)

 

[keithop]

My 27" iMac running Ventura did this just yesterday, finder locked up, desktop locked up but I could switch between some of the apps and using them. Couldn't even reboot, had to hold the power button in to power off.

yeah I mean both systems can go unresponsive you're right. I just see it more on windows personally

I've seen it in windows but have usually gotten out of it by ctrl-alt-del to bring up task manager, kill all explorer.exe's, kill the app that locked up, then use the task manager to relaunch explorer.exe. I tried the same on the iMac using the force quit dialog, and it kind of worked except it locked up right away again.

yep, I'm a kill -9 on the terminal guy but same thing.

I bet nobody here remembers how well (not) OS/2 handled that. (and I actually liked OS/2 more than windows by a lot back then!!)

of course I remember I was signed up for the beta and IBM dutifully sent me loads of diskettes to install every few weeks. I actually really liked it and thought it was moving in the right direction at the time. I also seem to remember IBM trying to work on stability of the ps2 platform. All in all, I enjoyed that time and os2.

funny though because I was telling a bunch of friends how great the beta of os2 was (and youre not on it HAH! oh dear) and how it was the future, the ps/2 was amazing (better than yours HAH! oh dear I really was a prat).... anyway we all went to a national computer show and some company at the door was handing out badges and tshirts with "os/2 on ps/2 - Half an operating system on half a computer" ... let's just say my "friends" never let me forget it

 

[groove-agent]

It would certainly need a change in Apple's strategy for Mac which I don't believe is its intention. Never has been.

This is simply not true. This sentiment is being perpetuated by an antiquated, old-fashioned view of the Mac.

In an interview with Apple’s vice president of Platform Architecture and Hardware Technologies Tim Millet:

“My team spends a lot of time thinking about how to make sure that we’re staying on that API curve to make sure that we’re giving Metal what it needs to be a modern gaming API. We know this will take some time. But we’re not at all confused about the opportunity; we see it. And we’re going to make sure we show up.”​

​

Source: https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-plan-to-fix-mac-gaming/​

Consider eGPU support in High-Sierra, and also the aforementioned development of Metal. Finally with Apple Silicon, we have a real potential for some serious CPU/ GPU horsepower. They're already at 32-38 GPU cores. I remember reading an article on the plans for AS raytracing as well.

The future for Mac gaming has definite potential. The key is breaking the aforementioned stereotype and breaking the cycle where developers don't want to make games for the Mac because there are no customers, and customers don't want to game on the Mac because there are no games.

Firstly Apple needs to make the hardware that can game. We're just seeing that starting now. Secondly, Apple needs to convince the developers. Apple's best strategy is to purchase a major game studio and get them to port their games to Apple Silicon to get the ball rolling and show the potential.

"Build it, and they will come."

I personally would love to ditch my gaming PC and just have one computer that does everything. World of Warcraft looks amazing on my MacBook Pro with the HDR support and ProRez display.

 

[bobthebuilderissus]

same, but worse, i predominantly use chrome OS (its better than you think don't judge me okay?) , but i also have a old probook 640 i use all of the time, and a 2020 m1 macbook air too
someone help aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[The point and shoot pro]

I think I am buying that macbook today. I will make the decision today and live with it ha ha.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

The more I have been reading, and talking with everyone here. The more I am realizing that I am going to be making an expensive mistake going with the macbook. I think I will stay with what I have now, it's working awesome and doing everything I want. Windows is going to be giving me access to imessage via phone link soon so that solves one issue I have.

The second issue is I need to get the wife a new PC to work from home. She currently has a dell inspiron 11 3000 with only 4gb of ram in it so thats a little small and slow for what we will be doing for the next few years. So I think I am going to replace her PC with a new Dell and maybe buy a small desktop and sideload MacOS on it. That way I can still try MacOS but replace much needed devices as well.