For Those Not Upgrading, What Could Apple Have Done to Convince You?

[Sanpete]

I can see people with lots of Lightning devices or something complaining, but those complaining about the lack of a USB-A port have a very cheap, easy solution: buy a tiny $5 adapter, leave it on the end of whatever you need it for, and carry on as before. The new MBP base 15" costs $100 less than the similarly spec'd model from 2015 did, so you can apply the savings to adapters if needed.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00W98IJ0O/
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I can live with everything except that I wish the ports on the left were magsafe, USB A (preferably 2), HDMI and an SD Card slot. They could have kept the 2 TB3 ports on the right. I would have bought the 15 on the spot

People don't want to admit this, but this laptop, bought now, will in all likelihood be obsolete by the time we have proper mass adoption of USB3/TB3 (If mass adoption even happens at all)

So I'll swapped out the battery on my late 2013 and will stick with it a year or two and see what happens

Your suggestion would require more space for ports (pretty crowded already inside the case) and result in a less powerful machine. I know many would be happy to have a slightly larger and less powerful machine in trade for legacy ports, but there are good reasons for their not being there.

I don't follow the claim about obsolescence. You're using a 2013 model. People are still happily using 2012 models and older. The newer ports will help avoid early obsolescence better than using the legacy ports would.

 

[eyeseeyou]

I can see people with lots of Lightning devices or something complaining, but those complaining about the lack of a USB-A port have a very cheap, easy solution: buy a tiny $5 adapter, leave it on the end of whatever you need it for, and carry on as before. The new MBP base 15" costs $100 less than the similarly spec'd model from 2015 did, so you can apply the savings to adapters if needed.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00W98IJ0O/

But I mean apple included a headphone jack/lightning adapter with the iphone 7, why not include a usb c to a adapter with the new macbook?

 

[TechZeke]

After waiting for 3 years (yes, you can find me posting on the first page of Waiting for Skylake thread, but I digressed), I wanted to get myself a MBP 15". As soon as I saw the price during the Apple event, I thought for myself "no way I'm spending €2800 for this base model". Couple with the fact that it comes with Intel HD 530 which is probably half as fast as a HD 550/540 on the 13"... I can live with the lack of legacy ports (I don't even use HDMI/SD Card slot), MagSafe, and a glowing Apple logo... but not this. I mean, it's not entirely Apple's fault, Intel didn't release the models with Iris Pro 580 soon enough. But no way I'm going to spend that much money to contemplate UI lagfest.

In the end, I saved myself €1000 and got the base 13" non TB (which I think is the only worthy model to buy on the basis of price/performance ratio), and build a desktop. With €1000 I can get GTX 1070 and i5-6700K, so more power for me at home.

I'm pretty much convinced now that unless you need something powerful on the go or simply just want the larger screen, Small ultrabook-like laptop + Powerful desktop PC seems to be the way to go. I've found that unless you're doing 4K video editing or professional graphics work, the U Series intel CPUs run things fine.

 

[duervo]

I can't think of any one thing that could have been done to convince me. I've long ago made the decision to stay away from first revision of a product redesign.

I will say this, though, that I came pretty close to violating my own rule over the holidays. If the price increase had not happened, then "maybe" I would have caved ... but I doubt it. (I'm suspecting that if they release a new Mac mini this year, and it's a redesign, I may actually end up breaking my rule ... but that depends.)

At any rate ... looking forward to them implementing a tiered battery design in a future refresh like they did with the MacBook. There was an article recently on here that alleged that they wanted to have something like that done for this iteration, but it didn't pass muster in time for release. If true, then that would be a bonus when they finally get that squared away.

The other issues being bandied about don't really concern me all that much. (ie: is the Touch Bar a "gimmick", graphics glitches, keyboard clickiness, ports, etc.)

 

[lympero]

For 15" :
The current model with i7-6770hq without dgpu and 512gb stock.
For 13" :
Same battery capacity as 2015 model with 512gb stock.

Unfortunately none of the above happened

 

[moosington]

I can see people with lots of Lightning devices or something complaining, but those complaining about the lack of a USB-A port have a very cheap, easy solution: buy a tiny $5 adapter, leave it on the end of whatever you need it for, and carry on as before.

You don't even need to buy an adapter and leave it plugged in, you can just buy a replacement cord that has USBC on the end and throw the old one out. It's almost all backwards compatible! You can even get a USBC to HDMI cable (not dongle) on Amazon for $30.

Then there's the fact that any USBC port can be a USBA/card reader/HDMI/DisplayPort/whateverthehellyouwant port and support 40 or 20 gbps of bandwidth. Even without a TB3 dock, USB3.1 (10gbps) drives my 3440x1440 @ 60hz and a mouse and keyboard.

Then think about all the new things that will come out in the next few years that will be USBC only.

 

[Naimfan]

think about all the new things that will come out in the next few years that will be USBC only.

Sure. But. A lot of people need to do work NOW, and find it absurd they need to replace cables or buy dongles. Especially for a machine that offers zero improvement in processing power (aside from improved discrete graphics).

By the time USB-C is everywhere, the 2016 MB"P"s will be out of date and need to be replaced themselves. And there'll be plenty of cables/dongles to connect to legacy USB-A ports in that future.

 

[xxray]

By not raising the price

 

[moosington]

Sure. But. A lot of people need to do work NOW, and find it absurd they need to replace cables or buy dongles. Especially for a machine that offers zero improvement in processing power (aside from improved discrete graphics).

By the time USB-C is everywhere, the 2016 MB"P"s will be out of date and need to be replaced themselves. And there'll be plenty of cables/dongles to connect to legacy USB-A ports in that future.

The 2016 MBP won't lack in power for the next 5-8 years unless the field of physics makes some pretty big breakthroughs. Kabylake brings native-ish h265 and that's about it.

There are already tons of dongles and replacement cords for people that need to do work now that are cheap. I don't understand all the whining about this - it's cheap and readily available already. All the ports can handle significantly more bandwidth for professionals that need it now. There's a ton of TB3 docks launching this quarter as well.

It's ridiculous how many people call that alone a deal breaker.

 

[Sanpete]

But I mean apple included a headphone jack/lightning adapter with the iphone 7, why not include a usb c to a adapter with the new macbook?

I suppose they did it for the phone because the kind of adapter needed was less common, but in any case it was a marketing decision.
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Especially for a machine that offers zero improvement in processing power (aside from improved discrete graphics).

Ha, no improvement in processing power except for the improvement in processing power. And SSD speed, and numerous other things.

By the time USB-C is everywhere, the 2016 MB"P"s will be out of date and need to be replaced themselves.

What an odd claim, second time it's been made here, without the slightest reason to believe it. Especially from people who suggest sticking with older models, with ports sooner obsolete, instead.

 

[eyeseeyou]

I suppose they did it for the phone because the kind of adapter needed was less common, but in any case it was a marketing decision.

Marketing decision for who and what type of benefit?

Strange decision since apple actually benefits from customers buying their airpods due to a standard headphone jack no longer being available.

With that same logic the new macbook took away the ability to directly connect their own iphone so they should've also provided a similar solution as they did with the iphone 7.

 

[Sanpete]

Apple also benefits from people buying their iPhone, and supplying a single adapter makes people feel better about that. It's more complicated with the MBPs. They may require different adapters for different people. So Apple dropped the price of their own adapters instead.

 

[Queen6]

Apple also benefits from people buying their iPhone, and supplying a single adapter makes people feel better about that. It's more complicated with the MBPs. They may require different adapters for different people. So Apple dropped the price of their own adapters instead.

Apple dropped the price due to negative reaction, had Apple been genuine from the start USB C adaptors & dongles pricing would have been reduced on release of the 2016 MBP. Depending on usage dongles can be problematic, especially those with "logic" onboard, even Apple`s own. 20 months with a rMB in a professional role reinforces this with Apple`s own dongles locking up from time to time.

Q-6

 

[Sanpete]

There's nothing less genuine about responding to consumers. This is a business, and most decisions are based on that. The ideals that some within Apple may have are always tempered by the realities of that.

 

[eyeseeyou]

Apple also benefits from people buying their iPhone, and supplying a single adapter makes people feel better about that. It's more complicated with the MBPs. They may require different adapters for different people. So Apple dropped the price of their own adapters instead.

So what does that mean that apple didn't include at least ONE USB C-A adapter at least to charge their own fricken iphone 7 that just came out?

 

[Sanpete]

A USB-C to A adapter costs $5 (the one I use did), so probably not a big incentive.

 

[moosington]

So what does that mean that apple didn't include at least ONE USB C-A adapter at least to charge their own fricken iphone 7 that just came out?

You could charge it with the included cable and wall charger.

Can people please stop repeating this argument over and over? Buy a $5-10 adapter or buy the $20 USBC to Lightning cable or don't buy this laptop. We all get that this is the horrible reality we all live in now. Let's move on.

 

[zaphodb3]

You could charge it with the included cable and wall charger.

Can people please stop repeating this argument over and over? Buy a $5-10 adapter or buy the $20 USBC to Lightning cable or don't buy this laptop. We all get that this is the horrible reality we all live in now. Let's move on.

Nah. It's a small thing but it's important, and I actually hope people *keep* bringing it up. Because historically, one of the main draws of Apple is that you're paying a premium to enjoy a seamless ecosystem of integrated products. This seamlessness is one of the features I remember being absolutely awed by when I first made the switch from PC to Mac. It felt so right, like people finally got what the experience was supposed to be like.

Being nickel-and-dimed for this stuff after having bought all the expensive component products reflects a glaring drop in quality and care. Yes it's a first world problem, but you can rightfully complain when you've already paid 0th world money


Moving on... I think the 2016 model was always slated to be the awkward, pimply teenager of the lot, what with the USB-C and subpar battery due to 'relentless thinness.' I'm excited for what 2017 may offer though. 32gb ram, Kaby Lake, more appropriate battery life, and a longer time for USB-C products to be introduced into the market (so that dongles aren't quite so necessary)-- it will (imo) finally be worth the money assuming they cost what the 2016 models do now.

 

[Sanpete]

Being nickel-and-dimed for this stuff after having bought all the expensive component products reflects a glaring drop in quality and care. Yes it's a first world problem, but you can rightfully complain when you've already paid 0th world money

Complaining because you don't like it is fine. Claiming the new ports, or not including a bunch of adapters, or whatever it is you're talking about, "reflects a glaring drop in quality and care" is just making stuff up. T3/USB-C reflects maximizing the power and flexibility of the ports, which may not please everyone, but it's certainly a worthy quality and care objective. And not including adapters makes plenty of sense when you realize that different people will need/want different adapters. It makes no sense to try to guess which ones of the dozens of adapters, cables, hubs, etc to include.

I'm excited for what 2017 may offer though. 32gb ram, Kaby Lake, more appropriate battery life

32 GB RAM, which requires using desktop RAM, will eat into battery life, not improve it. (The 15" and nTB 13" already have fine battery life, by the way. Reports vary about the 13" TB.)

 

[Naimfan]

Mostly agree with zaphodb3, above.

But: pricing needs to return to 2015 levels. $2400 for 256 gb storage is just a rip-off.

 

[saynax]

I have waited 2.5 years for this laptop to come out. When the 2015 model was released I thought that it would be good to wait for the next release. How I regret this decision now. However it's too late to buy the 2015 model now, which is 1.5 years old and pretty much still as expensive as when it came out... So I will keep waiting with my MBP 2009, hopefully 2017 will be more fruitful.

Either way, I am not too bothered about the battery as I keep my laptop plugged in most of the time. I also don't really care about USB-C although I think getting rid of MagSafe was plain stupid...

What I really want is:
- No Touch Bar - this is just a stupid gimmick in my opinion, it's not something that will last. I highly doubt that 2 years from now a Touch Bar will be a standard laptop feature and all other manufacturers will follow suit. Or if they insist on giving us a Touch Bar, at least place it above the Function keys instead of having it replace them
- A slightly better dGPU would have been nice (yes, yes... power consumption blabla, again, I have my laptop plugged in most of the time)

Even though I think the price hike (especially in the UK) was outrageous, I would still buy the MBP 15 inch if it simply didn't come with a Touch Bar. I don't know, the Touch Bar just seems 'cheap' to me - I'd be almost embarrassed to have that on my laptop.

 

[huckg]

• Demonstrably well engineered and thought out features.
• Signs of world-class design and engineering talent and problem solving.
• Ideas I never thought of or knew were possible but clearly are great things to have.
• Wanting to look under the surface, pupils dilating.

I don't see any of this.

All I see is a micky mouse computer that can barely work ok. I don't want to look under the surface as I worry this house of cards will collapse while burning my hand.

 

[eyeseeyou]

You could charge it with the included cable and wall charger.

Can people please stop repeating this argument over and over? Buy a $5-10 adapter or buy the $20 USBC to Lightning cable or don't buy this laptop. We all get that this is the horrible reality we all live in now. Let's move on.

I guess I'm still stuck in the "It just works" world from almost a decade ago.

I'm not switching to a windows laptop anytime soon but for laptops that don't "just work" there are arguably a list of better options for the price.

 

[jlfx]

Seeing how low tier the AMD graphics cards in MacBook pros are and how bad they score in benchmarks I can't justify the price. I really like the old keyboard and can't see why the trackpad has to be soo huge. One thing I love is the new display.

 

[aevan]

All I see is a micky mouse computer that can barely work ok. I don't want to look under the surface as I worry this house of cards will collapse while burning my hand.