For Those Not Upgrading, What Could Apple Have Done to Convince You?

[aevan]

Sorry for that, and agreed, but I didn't enjoy being called "PC material".

Hahahah, if that's an insult to you - you're worse than me Ok, sorry.

And ok, we'll agree to disagree on several points, but fine, I won't push it any more. You said you were happy with Apple in general, so I was wrong in your case - but what I said to you applies to a lot of other people. A lot of people here want things that Apple will never do, and I was thinking - why torture yourself? PCs are fine. I mean, I love Macs, but PCs are fine. If you want old ports, removable SSDs, more RAM, whatever - just get a PC. Of course, that's just a suggestion - to those people. As for you - I hope find a way to make peace with USB-C ports, either by waiting, or by carrying dongles

Either way I won't bug you any further Peace.

 

[SarcasticJoe]

Series of things really, here's a list sorted by significance:

- General price hike mostly stemming from how they dropped the iGPU only machines (I have a desktop for heavy GPU compute stuff and games)
- Skylake CPU when Kaby Lake is already available in volume
- Integrating the SSD on the motherboard (the RAM was annoying, but this is just riddiculous)
- Getting rid of the MagSafe power connector (this has saved my current MBP about a dozen times)
- Unnecessary touchscreen for the function keys (again, driving up the price)
- The use of USBtypeC for everything (so you either need an expensive dock or your home setup becomes a mess of dongles)
- Removal of the SD card slot (it was genuinely handy to have and didn't even take up a lot of space)
- Never been a fan of the thinner keyboards
- Would have loved to see them do something interesting with the screen (like going for an IGZO panel)

I'm still on a 2011 model so buying one would be a massive upgrade, but I've been mulling over the purchase of a refurbished or second hand 2012-2015 machine instead. However I'm probably going to spend that money on upgrading my desktop with a Zen CPU, new motherboard, RAM and case once AMD's Zen CPUs hit the market in about a month.

 

[aevan]

Series of things really, here's a list sorted by significance:

- Skylake CPU when Kaby Lake is already available in volume

But there was no Skylake when these came out. And I'm not sure they are available in volume today, especially for MBP volumes.

BTW, honest question - what is it with everyone and Kaby Lake? That is litteraly the smallest CPU upgrade in the history of Intel.

 

[Sanpete]

Adding additional ports adds cost - it's not just holes, you know. It adds cost in size, internal components and in terms of beauty of design.

And majority of people do not use those ports. Majority of people use only one of them and they can continue using it by ADAPTING the amazing universal port to whatever they need.

Indeed. That would be a point to address to the person I was responding to.

 

[jerryk]

But there was no Skylake when these came out. And I'm not sure they are available in volume today, especially for MBP volumes.

I think people do not understand that Kaby Lake (and every Intel release) is a family of processor released over time as the new processes are applied. And this can take years. Low power Kaby Lake chips were available in general release at the time new MBPs were manufactured. But, the new high power chips used in the MBP are just now (Jan 2017) becoming available.

 

[CaptRB]

Believe me, I did want to upgrade this year. I was looking forward to Apple making me excited about the MacBook Pro again. The new MacBook Pro did just enough to be considered a new body style as happens about every four years, but not enough for me to justify a purchase just yet.

2012's MacBook Pro was a beautiful must-upgrade piece of machinery. They introduced a Retina Display and improved upon the unibody design while providing cutting-edge hardware. This was a no-brainer upgrade for me, and finding it on-sale for a few hundred off a few weeks after it came out made it a worthwhile upgrade even if I barely netted $700 for my 2008 MacBook Pro. Now though, it still stands up with the best of the Mac lineup which is a positive in that I really don't need to upgrade. It's over 33% faster than a Core i7 base 13" MacBook Pro and twice as fast as a MacBook, while sporting a Retina Display with the same resolution as the new generation that the MacBook Air doesn't even (and probably won't ever) have.

I wasn't looking for any unrealistic new features to make the leap to a new generation. An OLED display would have made me happy to upgrade. IGZO could've been satisfactory. I do think the improved display they did add is noticeably better and makes me want to upgrade more than anything else. However, it's not that much better that I'm going to go through the hassle of selling my MacBook Pro and spending $2,399 for it.

The price isn't the issue though: it's that the value isn't high enough. Maybe if the base 15" came with 512GB of flash storage I could've justified it a bit more, but the base still comes with 256GB like it did four years ago.

Even performance improvements are looking to be more moderate than expected; unfortunately, it certainly won't benchmark anywhere near twice as fast as my four-year-old MacBook Pro. The design looks nicer as expected though, and Space Grey works really well. While I'm sure I'd get enjoyment and use out of the Touch Bar, as a package deal it's just not enough for me to upgrade at a premium.

For me to spend $2,399 I would have wanted an OLED Retina Display that's preferably 4K, the latest Intel Kaby Lake processors, and 512GB of flash storage. If we're not getting an OLED display for another four years, I'll probably sit these next few years out or move over to an iMac assuming it gets a full refresh relatively soon.

I am still considering the new MacBook Pro, but it would be the 13" with an external display... which just doesn't make sense. In all honesty the iPhone and iPad are already portable computers, Apple should be focusing on the iMac and Mac Pro as much as the MacBook Pro.

Apple would have had me at "Hello" if....

1) They improved the screen and brightness.

2) Fixed the sloppy keyboards of old and made a precision keyboard.

3) I know there's only so much you can do with tiny speakers, but a small upgrade would be nice.

4) Larger trackpad so I can edit in photoshop more easily when not using a mouse.

5) Faster SSD would be nice

6) Make it a bit lighter and less bulky and let me place have space gray.

And....oh, wait. They did all of that!

SO I BOUGHT TWO!



R.

 

[rutrack]

Apple would have had me at "Hello" if....

1) They improved the screen and brightness.

2) Fixed the sloppy keyboards of old and made a precision keyboard.

3) I know there's only so much you can do with tiny speakers, but a small upgrade would be nice.

4) Larger trackpad so I can edit in photoshop more easily when not using a mouse.

5) Faster SSD would be nice

6) Make it a bit lighter and less bulky and let me place have space gray.

And....oh, wait. They did all of that!

SO I BOUGHT TWO!



R.

That's a great marketing strategy, make a keyboard flat and call it precision, make a trackpad larger and claim that it is now somehow better in some awkward situation, offer absolutely no explanation as to why you would remove absolutely vital features, like an escape button. Can't argue about faster ssd though, that's always good.

 

[boilingDream]

What it would take for me to stay with the MacBook:
- Better keyboard (normal keytravel).

What I would like:
- Same or better (and predictable) battery life as old Macbooks.
- No touchbar. It's a useless gimmic that only adds cost.
- Smaller trackpad.
- New chassis design, new materials. The aluminium is getting old.
- Improved OS quality.

Alas, that didn't happen, so a Dell XPS 13 is on it's way.

 

[MICHAELSD]

What it would take for me to stay with the MacBook:
- Better keyboard (normal keytravel).

What I would like:
- Same or better (and predictable) battery life as old Macbooks.
- No touchbar. It's a useless gimmic that only adds cost.
- Smaller trackpad.
- New chassis design, new materials. The aluminium is getting old.
- Improved OS quality.

Alas, that didn't happen, so a Dell XPS 13 is on it's way.

It'll probably be on its way back within a week .

 

[CaptRB]

That's a great marketing strategy, make a keyboard flat and call it precision, make a trackpad larger and claim that it is now somehow better in some awkward situation, offer absolutely no explanation as to why you would remove absolutely vital features, like an escape button. Can't argue about faster ssd though, that's always good.

1) Keys not wobbling, no light leak and better feel overall.

2) Larger track pad means I can select/adjust when photo editing more easily.

3) The escape button is on my touchbar and works fine.

4) Battery life is the same as my 2015 rMBP 15".

In practical use, it's a very solid machine and certainly the best MacBook pro thus far. Next cycle we'll see faster processors and I'd like to see the return of the SD slot, but as a flush design. This would enable easy storage expansion.


R.

 

[rutrack]

1) Keys not wobbling, no light leak and better feel overall.

2) Larger track pad means I can select/adjust when photo editing more easily.

3) The escape button is on my touchbar and works fine.

4) Battery life is the same as my 2015 rMBP 15".

In practical use, it's a very solid machine and certainly the best MacBook pro thus far. Next cycle we'll see faster processors and I'd like to see the return of the SD slot, but as a flush design. This would enable easy storage expansion.


R.

It is obvious you're satisfied with your laptop and in your opinion the keyboard feel is overall somehow better and I think it's great, but the thread is labeled for those not upgrading, like myself and what could Apple have done to reverse that decision.
It just looks like the things you like are either a stop factor from buying for some, like the escape key and flat keyboard or are not better, to say the least, like the battery life. There is nothing, really, that the new laptop offers in terms of productivity and features at the moment, while it is making so many compromises. They are not yours and others who like it compromises, you are not affected and even find that the lack of key travel somehow equates to precision press
(like ipad?), they are compromises for others.
But the bigger problem might be that it's not the problem with the laptop, it's just that Apple changed its priorities and many people are left off board ... again ... not everybody ... you seem to be fine, but others are not and you seem to like the keyboard and other things, while I think it's completely awful and offers no tactile feel.

 

[CaptRB]

It is obvious you're satisfied with your laptop and in your opinion the keyboard feel is overall somehow better and I think it's great, but the thread is labeled for those not upgrading, like myself and what could Apple have done to reverse that decision.
It just looks like the things you like are either a stop factor from buying for some, like the escape key and flat keyboard or are not better, to say the least, like the battery life. There is nothing, really, that the new laptop offers in terms of productivity and features at the moment, while it is making so many compromises. They are not yours and others who like it compromises, you are not affected and even find that the lack of key travel somehow equates to precision press
(like ipad?), they are compromises for others.
But the bigger problem might be that it's not the problem with the laptop, it's just that Apple changed its priorities and many people are left off board ... again ... not everybody ... you seem to be fine, but others are not and you seem to like the keyboard and other things, while I think it's completely awful and offers no tactile feel.

The majority seems to like the keyboard. There's a lot more to the keys than a bit less travel. There's better feedback, and less play & wobble. It takes some getting used to. A better brighter screen is certainly a positive. It means more functionality and when I show photos to a client outdoors here in LA, this is the machine to take.
Any time you change a product like this there is invariably a period of adjustment where the customer base shifts slightly. My friend works at a Genius Bar here in LA and she's not seeing anything significant in this launch, except the frustration when buyers have to wait for specific configurations.
Obviously people complain in a forum. It's a very focused shrill response and not even as loud as when Mac removed the integral CD/DVD drives. I have a 15" rMBP and it's a great machine. This new machine is better in most respects, but it's understood that some cannot adapt to the changes. They can keep what they have or try a windows system.


R.

 

[Sanpete]

There is nothing, really, that the new laptop offers in terms of productivity and features at the moment, while it is making so many compromises.

What an odd claim. I don't know what you have in mind, but as a matter of plain fact, there are numerous improvements, in almost every area. Here are some ares where the new 15" is clearly better:

-- Screen (brighter, higher contrast, better color)
-- dGPU
-- SSD speed
-- External monitor support
-- Battery life for ordinary use
-- Heat
-- Quietude
-- Speakers
-- Touch ID
-- Size/weight

You may not like some of the changes for your own subjective reasons, but that doesn't mean the new machine isn't clearly better in most ways.

Apple changed its priorities and many people are left off board

Again, there isn't the slightest evidence of this.

 

[rutrack]

The majority seems to like the keyboard. There's a lot more to the keys than a bit less travel. There's better feedback, and less play & wobble. It takes some getting used to. A better brighter screen is certainly a positive. It means more functionality and when I show photos to a client outdoors here in LA, this is the machine to take.
Any time you change a product like this there is invariably a period of adjustment where the customer base shifts slightly. My friend works at a Genius Bar here in LA and she's not seeing anything significant in this launch, except the frustration when buyers have to wait for specific configurations.
Obviously people complain in a forum. It's a very focused shrill response and not even as loud as when Mac removed the integral CD/DVD drives. I have a 15" rMBP and it's a great machine. This new machine is better in most respects, but it's understood that some cannot adapt to the changes. They can keep what they have or try a windows system.


R.

I am using the macbook since the first G4 titanium and went through a couple changes, I could never care less about what Apple does ... remove the superdrive, remove ethernet, remove matte screen and anything else as it didn't affect my workflow, but this laptop I find unusable. Got the new 2015, amazing laptop.
[doublepost=1485465101][/doublepost]

What an odd claim. I don't know what you have in mind, but as a matter of plain fact, there are numerous improvements, in almost every area. Here are some ares where the new 15" is clearly better:

-- Screen (brighter, higher contrast, better color)
-- dGPU
-- SSD speed
-- External monitor support
-- Battery life for ordinary use
-- Heat
-- Quietude
-- Speakers
-- Touch ID
-- Size/weight

You may not like some of the changes for your own subjective reasons, but that doesn't mean the new machine isn't clearly better in most ways.



Again, there isn't the slightest evidence of this.

It's hard to argue with ignorance ...

 

[Sanpete]

It's hard to argue with ignorance ...

Indeed! I can back up every point with objective facts, while you offer ...

 

[CaptRB]

What an odd claim. I don't know what you have in mind, but as a matter of plain fact, there are numerous improvements, in almost every area. Here are some ares where the new 15" is clearly better:

-- Screen (brighter, higher contrast, better color)
-- dGPU
-- SSD speed
-- External monitor support
-- Battery life for ordinary use
-- Heat
-- Quietude
-- Speakers
-- Touch ID
-- Size/weight

You may not like some of the changes for your own subjective reasons, but that doesn't mean the new machine isn't clearly better in most ways.



Again, there isn't the slightest evidence of this.

Hey, if he doesn't like the Keyboard, that's okay and too bad. But most owners do like it. My wife clocks an amazing 70 WPM and she says the new keyboard has her typing faster with less fatigue. But everyone's different and it's fine if you feel differently.

What's NOT fine is pretending that the whole world agrees with you and that the new Machine is some sort of flop. Nor do I pretend that the whole world loves the new MBP. The facts are the facts and the SPECIFICATIONS show that this Machine is UPGRADED significantly, even if those upgrades aren't working for you.

As I own the 2015 rMBP and two of the new 13" tb units, I can't see many issues with using either. They're all very nice. But the new machines are better in most respects and using "alternative facts" to state otherwise is pretty silly.

As a professional writer and photographer (just completed a shoot back in NY), this is my #1 machine to use on the road...and even at home with my 4K@60 monitors.



R.

 

[rutrack]

Hey, if he doesn't like the Keyboard, that's okay and too bad. But most owners do like it. My wife clocks an amazing 70 WPM and she says the new keyboard has her typing faster with less fatigue. But everyone's different and it's fine if you feel differently.

What's NOT fine is pretending that the whole world agrees with you and that the new Machine is some sort of flop. Nor do I pretend that the whole world loves the new MBP. The facts are the facts and the SPECIFICATIONS show that this Machine is UPGRADED significantly, even if those upgrades aren't working for you.

As I own the 2015 rMBP and two of the new 13" tb units, I can't see many issues with using either. They're all very nice. But the new machines are better in most respects and using "alternative facts" to state otherwise is pretty silly.

As a professional writer and photographer (just completed a shoot back in NY), this is my #1 machine to use on the road...and even at home with my 4K@60 monitors.



R.

You crack me up
Since you're a professional writer, it's not hard to add two and two together for you and check the thread topic, is it ?
If you want to talk about SPECIFICATIONS that are UPGRADED significantly, start a new thread and we can talk about it and how it maybe compensates for some people for otherwise poorly designed system. By the way I do think that the new machine is a flop and I have no clue about the whole world, but there are definitely people in this thread who agrees with me, so that's what we are discussing here and how could apple improve it, is it ok to do so and not discuss the amazingly fast hard drives, which, like I said before, are really nice ?

 

[macmee]

I played with one for a few days. I can afford one and even can get one free through work.

However.

Around $5,000 CAD for 6th gen intel hardware, for a first gen model that has a few bugs.

Compounding the fact that it barely performs better than my maxed out 2014, there is absolutely no point in me updating now.

I am tempted because I would like thunderbolt 3 to give an external GPU a go, but the nvidia 10xx series isn't even supported yet......

 

[Sanpete]

You crack me up
Since you're a professional writer, it's not hard to add two and two together for you and check the thread topic, is it ?
If you want to talk about SPECIFICATIONS that are UPGRADED significantly, start a new thread and we can talk about it and how it maybe compensates for some people for otherwise poorly designed system. By the way I do think that the new machine is a flop and I have no clue about the whole world, but there are definitely people in this thread who agrees with me, so that's what we are discussing here and how could apple improve it, is it ok to do so and not discuss the amazingly fast hard drives, which, like I said before, are really nice ?

When you make peculiar claims such as, "There is nothing, really, that the new laptop offers in terms of productivity and features at the moment, while it is making so many compromises," you should expect to be challenged, no matter what thread it's in.

 

[macmee]

When you make peculiar claims such as, "There is nothing, really, that the new laptop offers in terms of productivity and features at the moment, while it is making so many compromises," you should expect to be challenged, no matter what thread it's in.

I think this other guy is being pretty rude but I agree with him to some extent. I mean, what's the point in getting the new macbook if you have a 2014 or 2015?

 

[0989383]

What could Apple have done to convince me?

Price the bloody thing in line with Planet Earth range..

Whilst I admire the new features and design, they are simply NOT worth the extra. They would have been extremely good value had the prices been maintained.

 

[zarathu]

I'm still on a 2011 model so buying one would be a massive upgrade, but I've been mulling over the purchase of a refurbished or second hand 2012-2015 machine instead.

I got a great deal from Power Max with a full year warranty on a late 2013 MBP, 2.6 ghz, 16 gb, 256gb, Iris Pro(IG), battery with only 150 cycles on it(gave me almost 9 hours yesterday doing normal internet things and no reduction of screen or anything), with a full YEAR WARRANTY. MACBENCH says single/multicore at 4100/13000. I bought it because there were no reported system wide issues with it. Since I don't do video beyond a little iMovie stuff, its wicked fast for me. And it has all the stuff Apple took out of the current model.

 

[rutrack]

When you make peculiar claims such as, "There is nothing, really, that the new laptop offers in terms of productivity and features at the moment, while it is making so many compromises," you should expect to be challenged, no matter what thread it's in.

That's fine, but you're not challenging, you claim that somehow keyboard is better because you think it is precise, enormous trackpad is better because you can edit some picture that you couldn't before, battery life for ordinary use (what the hell is that?) when the battery capacity is actually much smaller in comparison to 2015 and other points not even worth discussing. All of that is your very subjective opinion. There are improvements, of course, it weights several grams less ...

So the laptop offers nothing in terms of productivity and features: It's not faster, battery life is shorter, keyboard has less keys, that's objective . The SSD .... again .... is very nice and would probably compensate well if you page a lot in case you're out of RAM, but memory management should be improved with next OS iteration anyway. So what are we left with, your productivity is only improved if what you do is copy file from ssd to external usb-c hard drive or you somehow need better speakers on a laptop ?

 

[c0ppo]

I find that usb-c only is annoying. Battery needs major improvements.
But the most frustrating thing to me was the TouchBar. I have no problem including one in their offering, but I would love to have a 15" without the TB. For me personally, it's just a gimmick. And a buggy one. I purchased 15" version, and returned it about a week later.

I will gladly purchase 15" version again. But only, and I do mean only if it comes with regular F keys and without TouchBar. I'm hoping at a 15" without TB, and without dGPU. At a lower cost of course.

If they don't offer that, I will purchase 2015 version and stick with it as long as I can. After that, who knows

 

[Altis]

17" = instabuy

Personally I'd prefer having much longer battery life and 1 USB-A port for the transition period to USB-C/TB3.

I'm not crazy about the keyboard either, but then I'm a total keyboard snob.