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Apple is most definitely guilty of planned obsolescence. That actually is a far greater problem than their lies and deceit about the battery life. Soldered RAM, non-removable batteries, etc? That's disgusting.

HOWEVER, to be fair, plenty of other companies are guilty of planned obsolescence as well. Each one of these scumbag companies needs to be taken to the cleaners over it.

Hasn't that always been the case with consumer-grade computing devices? It's a fine line between "build great products with todays' technology" versus "build good products that can be upgraded". Given the rapidity of change over the course of only a few years I would personally prefer great today... and great tomorrow. IF you want upgradability, then Apple is not for you and it is their right to do so.
 
I'm going to assume you're an intelligent man when I ask: when you bought the iPhone did or did you not know the parts were non user upgradable?


It's stuff like this that makes me upset.

First - the sly "(plus the $29)" is entitled. Seems like you want it for free, like many. I've never been entitled to the point where I feel that a company has to fix an issue I brought by wear and tear. I expect things to get old.

Second - people like to downplay things. Do you have experience with battery replacements on Apple devices? I have screen replacement experience. Things are small. Things can get lost. Also, this isn't your damn phone you're working with. It's someone else's. I'd be working carefully not to screw up.

Third - have yo ever worked retail? Any job with people? The amount of people I meet in college that never worked even part time is incredible. I wish I had daddy money... digressing, if you've had any type of job supporting yourself through your early twenties late teens you'll know people suck. People are demanding. Even if it ain't your fault they will make it seem like it is. That takes a toll. Of course you're gonna have Managers being a little more strict. They don't want to deal with a **** load of angry people. They show compassion and I'm certain a lot of people would take advantage. It's not the fault of the retail staff. Get over that.

Fourth - I will supporting Apple even more now. They care. As annoying as they are the people who complain care too. We've had many Android problems (security, hardware issues on some OEM's, etc) in the past and they don't get much traction because people don't care. This is a platform I want. One that changes and admits mistakes. Not risks life's with faulty hardware and takes information. There's just no true alternative.
I worked retail for four long years. And worked with the public via phone for a brokerage firm. I know customers can be unreasonable and downright scary at times, but my impression is that you read his post in haste and may be projecting a lot and reading things into that post that aren’t there. My apologies if I am mistaken.

Here is how I saw it, and I may be wrong, but I offer my take on it for the sake of discussion as a fellow survivor of retail:

He was speaking of streamlining the customer service process, which would benefit the staff as well, as it would cut down on face time with the customer. The way it’s going now, two to three visits to resolve the issue gives a simple matter a chance to escalate into ill will on both sides. I think he was suggesting a more efficient booking and fulfillment process. There have been enough first hand accounts here to indicate there is at least solid basis for that proposal. It is putting a bit of a burden on the customer to have them go out of their way, particularly if they do not nave an Apple Store nearby, to visit more than once for a battery replacement.

Where I do agree with your viewpoint is that I do think the customer needs to have it explained that a long wait for the replacement to be finished is necessary to give the customer the phone back properly out back together in good working order.

Beyond that, I think most reasonable people do understand and expect the battery will degrade over time. But there have been a lot of anecdotal reports of issues that SEEM related to the battery, such as fast draining or shut downs, that have caused people to seek a battery change (at their own cost) in the past, only to be turned away and sent home with a poorly functioning phone because the battery passed the diagnostic test Apple currently employs. This may signal that there is a problem with the diagnostic tests that Apple needs to look into. Maybe the tests aren’t adequate to reveal the true nature of the condition of the battery or something else. It is a problem that customers are being sent home with poorly functioning phones.

Hopefully this whole unfortunate mess will yield positive changes. Apple may now have the impetus to examine aspects of customer service and improve them, as well as continue to seek better battery technology. Samsung supposedly has a new kind of battery, present in my S8+, that is supposed to degrade at a significantly slower rate. I am interested to see if this will prove true. If Samsung can do it, I’m sure Apple can as well, if sufficiently motivated.

Eventually, anychanges for the better are a win for the customer and a win for Apple.
 
....The charges from all of these groups is that the battery FIX (which is what happened here) was part of a larger planned obsolescence strategy. Every one of these suits is going to have to prove that claim, the lawsuits aren't over the fix. Read a bit.
That's why I said: Whether this went to far has to be decided in court. Read a bit better. Your claim about insane conspiracies (my earlier reaction was about that) is completely unfounded.
 
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That's why I said: Whether this went to far has to be decided in court. Read a bit better. Your claim about insane conspiracies is completely unfounded.
Have you not been on this site for the last two weeks? We have people posting that Apple has been intentionally crippling devices to "force" users to upgrade for years. YEARS. Then they took these recent findings, which EXTEND the lifespan of a phone, and wrapped it into their claims.

Have you really not seen that in the dozens of threads on this topic the last few weeks? It's everywhere.

To be clear, I'm not talking about YOU being one of these people, but they are everywhere here.
 
Hasn't that always been the case with consumer-grade computing devices? It's a fine line between "build great products with todays' technology" versus "build good products that can be upgraded". Given the rapidity of change over the course of only a few years I would personally prefer great today... and great tomorrow. IF you want upgradability, then Apple is not for you and it is their right to do so.

If there is a rapid change in available tech over a few years that makes the old device obsolete. That is not planned obsolescence. It's simply the device becoming obsolete. A 12" tube based black and white TV is obsolete even if it works as well today as the day it was made.

Planned obsolescence is where the company renders a device unusable deliberately even though the tech itself is still up-to-date enough that it's not worth replacing otherwise. Few people with an iPhone 6s that worked as well as it did when brand new would buy a new iPhone today, there's just not enough difference between the 6s and the 8/x. The 6s tech is just not at all obsolete. Forcing the 6s to be obsolete either with the battery/throttling issue or making the OS run slower on older hardware is planned obsolescence. And it both is and should be illegal. It's horrible for the environment and horrible for consumers and the economy.
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Have you not been on this site for the last two weeks? We have people posting that Apple has been intentionally crippling devices to "force" users to upgrade for years. YEARS.

That may or may not be true. The fact that they are busted now with their battery scheme doesn't mean they weren't crippling phones on purpose before and it doesn't mean they were.

You seem to think that because Apple is guilty for sure now, it proves they're somehow innocent of all the past accusations that were never proven or disproven.
 
Forcing the 6s to be obsolete either with the battery/throttling issue or making the OS run slower on older hardware is planned obsolescence. And it both is and should be illegal. It's horrible for the environment and horrible for consumers and the economy.
Only if it is forced, and you can prove it. When these cases go to discovery they're not going to find any internal communications regarding this, so enjoy the speculation while you can.
 
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Have you not been on this site for the last two weeks? We have people posting that Apple has been intentionally crippling devices to "force" users to upgrade for years. YEARS. Then they took these recent findings, which EXTEND the lifespan of a phone, and wrapped it into their claims.

Have you really not seen that in the dozens of threads on this topic the last few weeks? It's everywhere.

To be clear, I'm not talking about YOU being one of these people, but they are everywhere here.

Huh? Of course I have been reading about this topic the last 2 weeks.
I get the distinct impression that you are turning my words around.

I reacted to your remark:
So....when all these suits go down in flames upon the discovery phase....are MR members going to continue the insane conspiracies? Doubt it.

I concluded from that remark that you meant that MR members are having insane conspiracy theories. I stated that your claim about these insane conspiracies is unfounded and has to be decided by the courts. I also gave some other arguments with that. What did I miss? Please don't answer that, because you are probably going to turn my words around again.
 
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Apple isnt FORCING a user to update.

Lol. Have you seen the constant nagging from iOS to update? And having to click the tiny (almost hidden) text "Remind me later" and then it says it will update between 9pm and 5am unless you cancel out of that too?
 
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yes, you should expect a negative impact to performance with software updates. does that help?

El Capitan ran very well on my entry level 2009 mac mini. It's only Sierra and High Sierra that make older machines run like drunk turtles. There is no way that is not on purpose. And considering most mac users say the best macs ever were from 2012, it's no wonder Apple will pull any trick to get people off those older and better machines. The 2012 mac mini is still a faster and more powerful machine than the minis sold in 2018.

Windows 10 will still run smooth and fast on 10+ year old PCs that shipped with Windows XP.

There is zero excuse for software updates to have a negative impact on performance.

It's just something Apple has always done on iToys and they've now spread it to macOS. It doesn't happen outside of Apple.

With the Spectre/Meltdown bug going around, someone just for for decided to try and install a modern current version Linux distro on an intel chip from before the bug. It installed on a 1993 Intel 486 and while it's certainly slower than Kaby Lake, it shows what you can do when there's no planned obsolescence going on.
 
Actually if Apple really wanted they could invent a cool battery change method that does not have the issues you do list above.
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What is your point? Batteries do not degrade ?

No my point is that instead of looking for excuses due to the horrible decision Apple have made you should look into the facts and not get stuck on battery issues. Again..IT is NOT the battery problem. It is decision to sneak in code that slows down your phone without letting you know. That for me is unacceptable. If my battery is not good enough let me know and ask to change or the phone will go into "safe mode". Im ok with that.
I have no idea how is that possible but my 5S on OS11 runs better than 6. And both have round 80% of battery health. 6S was replaced by apple due to occasional shut down although battery was showing 40%. So something is not right. And in my book instead of fixing the problem they tried to sweep it under the carpet.
 
Only if it is forced, and you can prove it. When these cases go to discovery they're not going to find any internal communications regarding this, so enjoy the speculation while you can.

The whole issue is forced on you because you've got an undersized battery in the 6 and newer phones which artificially shorten their life.

But as far as what you're trying to twist and distort things into, I'm running iOS 10.3.1 on my iPhone 7. It is horrible dealing with the constant update nagging and no option to opt out of it. I can't charge my phone at night anymore or it will run the update automatically. I'm forced to lose gigs of storage on my phone to store an update I don't want that most certainly did force its way onto my phone wasting my bandwidth that I pay for.

How is that not forced? And when Apple is so desperate to install a patch on my phone that will throttle it. And that will break 32 bit apps. And do a whole bunch of things I don't want to do that will make my phone less useful than the day I bought it, how can you pretend Apple isn't deliberately ruining previous models for reasons that are not good for the customer?
 
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Are you refering to the 64bit move?

Are we also going to be complaining some PowerPC applications are no longer around too?

There is fantastic reasoning behind why Apple forces developers to build to the newest standard. Heres a few simple ones

1. It allows their code to become more streamlined by chucking out the old processes. Means less bugs and better battery life

2. Better performance and use of newer technologies

3. Keeps the app store up to date and eliminates staleness.

If you prefer an app from 2008, 32bit, has never heard of anything close to an a11 chip, not remotely optimized - running on your iphone X, then I think you would be alone in that queue..

4: It allows Apple to force updates onto iOS devices and then cripple their performance thus forcing iPhone upgrades and planned obsolescence.....
 
Because adding removable battery functionality in design totally must result in a phone like a Nokia from the year 2000. Because.

The mere concept is totally beyond the most advanced modern engineering and science.
[doublepost=1515479522][/doublepost]At the very, very least, they could make it a whole lot easier to replace than it is currently, and not have you lose your warranty should you decide to do the work yourself, y'know, on the very thing you spent $999 on.

That’s totally what I said. Wait, no, it isn’t. I said the battery would have to be smaller.

Or better batteries.

Nope, that’s not what would happen. Removable batteries need more space around them, and generally aren’t as energy dense as ones they don’t intend for normal people to remove.

Never said it was as mature as OSX, either way, both OS’s are very mature at this point. The evidence I’ve gathered is that planned obsolescence exists and will continue to exist as long as Apple tries to get you to upgrade every third or forth year. Naysayers will naysay, but my iPad Air disagrees.

Your iPad Air is a device with a single gig of RAM and a processor that has an extremely weak processor compared to what came in the next year, let alone the years after. That’s not planned obsolescence, that’s Apple advancing tech and using those advances to advance what the OS can do. You have no evidence because there is none.

The A7 is just not a great processor.
 
Are we also going to be complaining some PowerPC applications are no longer around too?

Of course not. We were able to keep our Macs on OS 10.6 as long as we wanted to maintain Rosetta there was no push to force uses onto newer OSes so there was no issue. If you had a need for PPC you could keep it.

And it certainly would have been an issue had Apple tried to force it. I remember Quicken was one App that people were attached to that had no Intel Mac version for a good 10 years, a lot of people did avoid upgrading to keep PPC apps running.

But now, mac and iPhone, you have a very hard time not updating the OS thanks to Apple's BS.

And another reason your example is just silly....the switch to Intel was 13 years ago, PPC really is ancient legacy code now. The end of 32 bit apps happened on THE CURRENT VERSION OF iOS, 32-bit Apps are out of date, but they're not ancient legacy code that users have had over a decade to replace.
 
Low charge, cold, or an old battery are not examples of incompetence by Apple. Those are examples of the limitations of lithium ion technology. Apple can't be held liable for those in court. What France or anyone else needs to prove is that there was something misleading or detrimental to customers about providing a solution to auto shutdowns due to low current from the battery. That doesn't sound like something easy to prove in court. After all, it's not like Apple refuses to provide battery checks or information about what EOL for the battery is considered to be. And it's not like there aren't troubleshooting steps that customers can follow for performance issues prior to focusing on the battery. It all boils down to "power management" not providing the same level of information as "low current in these specific conditions can cause an auto shutdown".

You DO know that the still on going iPhone 6S free battery replacement programme is there to replace batteries that ‘shut down’, at 20 or 30% right? Something you defenders are now arguing as a ‘feature’ is considered a ‘Apple known issue and fault’...

But because Apple says otherwise you’ll defend them right :rolleyes:
 
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That’s totally what I said. Wait, no, it isn’t. I said the battery would have to be smaller.



Nope, that’s not what would happen. Removable batteries need more space around them, and generally aren’t as energy dense as ones they don’t intend for normal people to remove.



Your iPad Air is a device with a single gig of RAM and a processor that has an extremely weak processor compared to what came in the next year, let alone the years after. That’s not planned obsolescence, that’s Apple advancing tech and using those advances to advance what the OS can do. You have no evidence because there is none.

The A7 is just not a great processor.

I never said anything about replaceable batteries, you are mistaken.
 
Dude are you serious? Fall for this mishandling. May I remind you that Samsung phones were BLOWING UP and everything is back to normal at Samsung. This isn't some backyard company, it's Apple. There is no fall, there is no mishandling. Only in your dreams perhaps.
Samsung did a fairly good job of owning up to their mistake. That counts for a lot. If they keep making phones with batteries that catch fire, then that's not excusable. If Apple handles this poorly, being arrogant about it or blaming the customer ("You're charging it wrong" or "you're upgrading it wrong"), then the PR could be worse than batteries that catch fire.
 
Your iPad Air is a device with a single gig of RAM and a processor that has an extremely weak processor compared to what came in the next year, let alone the years after. That’s not planned obsolescence, that’s Apple advancing tech and using those advances to advance what the OS can do. You have no evidence because there is none.

No, it's not Apple advancing tech.

the iPad Air was capable of certain tasks 5 years ago when it came out. Advancing tech would be creating new iPads with newer and more advanced capabilities. None of that takes away from what the Air should be able to do.

Instead, Apple retroactively takes away from what the Air was able to do. The same device can do less today than 5 years ago. And they do it because there Air was good enough for most people, there is just no reason to buy an Air 3 when you own an Air for most people.

Make the Air worse than it used to be gets new sales for the newer model. That's Apple's core business plan these days.

If Apple were advancing tech, the new stuff would sell on its own merit without ruining the old stuff.
 
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No doubt huh. You sit in on board meetings for Apple? You know this with “no doubt?”

Highly doubt these strategic decisions are on the boards radar. But following cant be disputed:

1. Apple's policy on this was to keep it an internal secret
2. This practice was not shared with genius bar employees.

Therefore, along the way, a intentional effort was made to let this easy fix slip through the conscience of iPhone consumers and funnel them into buying new devices.
 
Sounds like you want a fragmented OS. Got a great option for ya

Why do you think it's a bad thing to stay on an older version of the OS when the version does things you don't like. Apps will be written with the latest version in mind, so staying older may mean you can't run a new App.

But there are many Apps that are no longer being maintained and will not work with the latest OS. Why is it so hard for you to grasp that there are people who are better keeping their old apps running at the expense of compatibility with the latest Apps?

Especially when the latest OS version is overflowing with bugs and throttles your phone for you.
 
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Highly doubt these strategic decisions are on the boards radar. But following cant be disputed:

1. Apple's policy on this was to keep it an internal secret
2. This practice was not shared with genius bar employees.

Therefore, along the way, a intentional effort was made to let this easy fix slip through the conscience of iPhone consumers and funnel them into buying new devices.
Glad to know you have insight to what apple intentionally does, the decisions higher ups in Apple are making.

Glad to know Apple chooses to hide every dta of the iOS development and that it must be schemey and intentional to keep the public duped for phone sales.

smh
 
Samsung did a fairly good job of owning up to their mistake. That counts for a lot. If they keep making phones with batteries that catch fire, then that's not excusable. If Apple handles this poorly, being arrogant about it or blaming the customer ("You're charging it wrong" or "you're upgrading it wrong"), then the PR could be worse than batteries that catch fire.
What I find repulsive about Apple's apology is that it wasn't an apology at all, but a justification and a Barney sing-along made for children.

"We want to help you prolong the life of your phone. We love you. Batteries degrade. We love you. We didn't tell you because we love you. You will love the X more."
 
Apple is most definitely guilty of planned obsolescence. That actually is a far greater problem than their lies and deceit about the battery life. Soldered RAM, non-removable batteries, etc? That's disgusting.

HOWEVER, to be fair, plenty of other companies are guilty of planned obsolescence as well. Each one of these scumbag companies needs to be taken to the cleaners over it.

The fact that Apple supports older phones with new OS updates far longer than their Android competition should say enough about this.
 
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If you want a thin, light, sexy, device with a removable battery? That battery is going to be smaller than the same sized phone without a removable battery. There’s no way around that.

So when did Apple customers ever say their current iPhone is too thick? Make the phone 1mm thicker and use the volume for a removable battery.

This thinness obsession at Apple senior management is a sickness. Apple has product anorexia. And the mess Apple is in now is a result of their sickness.
 
Why did Apple already have the low power warning at 20% charge and an EOL rating for the battery at 80% capacity if they were "blindsided" by the limitations of lithium ion batteries?

As standards, no competence is necessary to repeat them.

Fact: the new throttling did not come built into the 6 or 6S. Therefore Apple was clearly previously unaware of the need for it to to prevent shutdowns. (And not just after the battery aged a year or more, since such shutdowns were being reported even just a few months after the 6S came out.)

Moreover, since this kind of throttling had never been necessary on previous iPhones (and still isn't on iOS devices with larger batteries!), the logical conclusion is that there is something caused by the later iPhone designs that either caught Apple unaware, or that they deliberately failed to address until enough people complained.

I give them the benefit of the doubt and presume the former. Conspiracists presume the latter.
 
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