French Consumer Fraud Group Investigating Apple for 'Alleged Deception' and 'Planned Obsolescence'

[DevNull0]

The fact that Apple supports older phones with new OS updates far longer than their Android competition should say enough about this.

Yep. It says Apple is more aggressive about degrading older products than Android makers.

You want more proof; the features from newer OSes never make it into the older phones, only the bloat and slowdowns. Siri on the 4S that didn't run on the 4...well until you jailbroke the 4 and it could run Siri just fine. There's always OS features that can run on the older models but don't.

 

[Puddled]

Yep. It says Apple is more aggressive about degrading older products than Android makers.

You want more proof; the features from newer OSes never make it into the older phones, only the bloat and slowdowns. Siri on the 4S that didn't run on the 4...well until you jailbroke the 4 and it could run Siri just fine. There's always OS features that can run on the older models but don't.

That is absolutely spot on and very well put.

 

[deferredAnon]

As standards, no competence is necessary to repeat them.

Fact: the new throttling did not come built into the 6 or 6S. Therefore Apple was clearly previously unaware of the need for it to to prevent shutdowns. (And not just after the battery aged a year or more, since such shutdowns were being reported even just a few months after the 6S came out.)

Moreover, since this kind of throttling had never been necessary on previous iPhones (and still isn't on iOS devices with larger batteries!), the logical conclusion is that there is something caused by the later iPhone designs that either caught Apple unaware, or that they deliberately failed to address until enough people complained.

I give them the benefit of the doubt and presume the former. Conspiracists presume the latter.

Or, because consumers slowed their upgrading of idevices after 6 and iPhone sales started to lag in 2016. That is a fact.

We know Apple likes to slow down older devices with iOS updates, intentionally, because Apple gives no choices.

We know that iPhone 6/6S currently make up a huge percentage of current iPhone owners. I am talking about beyond 40%. Especially if you look at the new activations for 2017 Christmas.



As you can see, the oldest model that is still popular after three years is the 6/6S. Coincidentally, Apple started throttling iPhone 7 after just one year(as opposed to throttling iPhone 6 after two years). Just a big conspiracy that everything seems to be done in a manner that is detrimental to the longevity of older models, especially without owner's knowledge of it.

I am not saying there wasn't issues with iPhone 6S batteries that led to initial free replacements, but I think Apple saw an opportunity and started applying it to every model.

 

[marty11]

Glad to know you have insight to what apple intentionally does, the decisions higher ups in Apple are making.

Glad to know Apple chooses to hide every dta of the iOS development and that it must be schemey and intentional to keep the public duped for phone sales.

smh

Apple is not in the business of longevity. They want you to buy a phone every year. The proof is there. Nobody knew about the battery issue until Dec. Now everybody knows.

 

[firewood]

So when did Apple customers ever say their current iPhone is too thick?

When market research showed that typically customers would pay more for thinner mobile phones (both Apple's and the competition's high end models) than the iPhone 3G and Nokia models with replaceable batteries.

We know Apple likes to slow down older devices with iOS updates, intentionally, because Apple gives no choices.

False and False.

• I have updated the OS on multiple older iOS devices (5s, 6s, etc.), and they benchmark no slower than when new.
• There are plenty of people who have chosen not to upgrade the OS. They've posted that fact right here in multiple MacRumors forums. But most knowledgable users prefer to update because they want the bug fixes and new features, even if those come with some amount of code bloat. That shows up in the percentage running the latest OS version.

 

[RealityM]

I have no idea how is that possible but my 5S on OS11 runs better than 6. And both have round 80% of battery health. 6S was replaced by apple due to occasional shut down although battery was showing 40%. So something is not right. And in my book instead of fixing the problem they tried to sweep it under the carpet.

How much slower is your 5S? I have a 5S which runs great on 10 yet with all the security questions in the air I feel like I should upgrade my 5S and my wife's 6S just to be safe. Your thoughts?

 

[deferredAnon]

False and False.

• I have updated the OS on multiple older iOS devices (5s, 6s, etc.), and they benchmark no slower than when new.
• There are plenty of people who have chosen not to upgrade OS. They've posted that fact right here in multiple MacRumors forums.

Plenty of YouTube videos showing the opposite.

If you don't upgrade, then be compromised with Spectre and Meltdown and other malicious security holes in your device. Decisions, decisions.

 

[JRobinsonJr]

If there is a rapid change in available tech over a few years that makes the old device obsolete. That is not planned obsolescence. It's simply the device becoming obsolete. A 12" tube based black and white TV is obsolete even if it works as well today as the day it was made.

Planned obsolescence is where the company renders a device unusable deliberately even though the tech itself is still up-to-date enough that it's not worth replacing otherwise. Few people with an iPhone 6s that worked as well as it did when brand new would buy a new iPhone today, there's just not enough difference between the 6s and the 8/x. The 6s tech is just not at all obsolete. Forcing the 6s to be obsolete either with the battery/throttling issue or making the OS run slower on older hardware is planned obsolescence. And it both is and should be illegal. It's horrible for the environment and horrible for consumers and the economy.
[doublepost=1515522037][/doublepost]

That may or may not be true. The fact that they are busted now with their battery scheme doesn't mean they weren't crippling phones on purpose before and it doesn't mean they were.

You seem to think that because Apple is guilty for sure now, it proves they're somehow innocent of all the past accusations that were never proven or disproven.

And there are equal assumptions that just because Apple is doing something that has the intermittent net effect of 'crippling a phone' - even though I disagree with that notion - they are guilty of doing it intentionally to drive sales rather than protect the longevity of existing devices. Either way is possible, but because we're dealing with INTENT ... either way will be very difficult to prove.

 

[BaltimoreMediaBlog]

This doesn't surprise me. Apple sent me a brand new iPhone 5s rather than replacing the battery and it cannot even make a simple phone call now, plus it runs as slow or slower than the one they replaced! I hope they ***** get sued by EVERYONE!

 

[Michael Goff]

I never said anything about replaceable batteries, you are mistaken.

My mistake. Everyone else was talking about removable, I assumed you were too.

No, it's not Apple advancing tech.

the iPad Air was capable of certain tasks 5 years ago when it came out. Advancing tech would be creating new iPads with newer and more advanced capabilities. None of that takes away from what the Air should be able to do.

Instead, Apple retroactively takes away from what the Air was able to do. The same device can do less today than 5 years ago. And they do it because there Air was good enough for most people, there is just no reason to buy an Air 3 when you own an Air for most people.

Make the Air worse than it used to be gets new sales for the newer model. That's Apple's core business plan these days.

If Apple were advancing tech, the new stuff would sell on its own merit without ruining the old stuff.

iOS is a bloated mess today that can’t run on a single gig of RAM and the crap A7. That isn’t planned obsolescence, though.

So when did Apple customers ever say their current iPhone is too thick? Make the phone 1mm thicker and use the volume for a removable battery.

This thinness obsession at Apple senior management is a sickness. Apple has product anorexia. And the mess Apple is in now is a result of their sickness.

So you’re okay with a smaller battery if it’s removable?

 

[Baymowe335]

Why do you think it's a bad thing to stay on an older version of the OS when the version does things you don't like. Apps will be written with the latest version in mind, so staying older may mean you can't run a new App.

But there are many Apps that are no longer being maintained and will not work with the latest OS. Why is it so hard for you to grasp that there are people who are better keeping their old apps running at the expense of compatibility with the latest Apps?

Especially when the latest OS version is overflowing with bugs and throttles your phone for you.

There are a lot of reasons...I'm not going to list them all for you because it takes too long for 1 just 1 person to read it. I've learned you have to type in soundbytes here because no one has any real interest in learning anything or knowing the truth.

Most people here just want to post for likes and/or make fun of the most valuable company in the world with little lame quips and jabs they've read elsewhere.

 

[Michael Goff]

Yep. It says Apple is more aggressive about degrading older products than Android makers.

You want more proof; the features from newer OSes never make it into the older phones, only the bloat and slowdowns. Siri on the 4S that didn't run on the 4...well until you jailbroke the 4 and it could run Siri just fine. There's always OS features that can run on the older models but don't.

That’s you proof? I’m getting the feeling that you just really want Planned Obselesence to be true. Do you even buy iPhones and iPads? If so, why?

 

[CmdrLaForge]

No my point is that instead of looking for excuses due to the horrible decision Apple have made you should look into the facts and not get stuck on battery issues. Again..IT is NOT the battery problem. It is decision to sneak in code that slows down your phone without letting you know. That for me is unacceptable. If my battery is not good enough let me know and ask to change or the phone will go into "safe mode". Im ok with that.
I have no idea how is that possible but my 5S on OS11 runs better than 6. And both have round 80% of battery health. 6S was replaced by apple due to occasional shut down although battery was showing 40%. So something is not right. And in my book instead of fixing the problem they tried to sweep it under the carpet.

Understood, so it is the design decision that Apple took that you don’t like. I agree that there should be a warning and then depending on user choice the action should be taken.

 

[DevNull0]

When market research showed that typically customers would pay more for thinner mobile phones (both Apple's and the competition's high end models) than the iPhone 3G and Nokia models with replaceable batteries.

So now you've got insight into Apple's inner workings? What market research?

People here and around the web make fun of Apple for putting thinness ahead of functionality across their product line. Nobody but Apple wants this thinness. Of course when each product comes out, a few apologists always say every product is exactly perfect and it should be exactly that thin, but nobody not even apologists say they should be thinner before Apple releases them.

Now you magically know Apple has this phantom market research. You don't know what Apple is thinking or knows.
[doublepost=1515529064][/doublepost]

That’s you proof? I’m getting the feeling that you just really want Planned Obselesence to be true. Do you even buy iPhones and iPads? If so, why?

Planned obsolescence is true with Apple, as of about 3 weeks ago that is no longer an open question. The open questions we're talking about are how far back it goes and just how aggressive Apple is about it.

Either the battery is not capable of power the phones since the 6 for more than 18 months = planned obsolescence or throttling = planned obsolescence. There is no longer a possibility that Apple isn't forcing phones out of service prematurely.

 

[bunnicula]

In the EU, it’s two years.

Ahh... right you are. Yes... it should be covered for the full 2 years for any warranty issues, then.

 

[DevNull0]

There are a lot of reasons...I'm not going to list them all for you because it takes too long for 1 just 1 person to read it.

Really, lots of reasons, huh.

For a user who doesn't care about installing apps that won't work on an older OS and believes the feature set of the older version is better for them, give me one reason besides security why upgrading to the latest OS is of benefit **to the users** not to Apple, not to the app devs, not to the phone carriers, but to the actual users who are paying for the phones.

I agree security is one reason, but you said there's lots of reasons.
[doublepost=1515529542][/doublepost]

iOS is a bloated mess today that can’t run on a single gig of RAM and the crap A7. That isn’t planned obsolescence, though.

Well then...why won't Apple allow the iPad Air user to install the iOS version that works best with their hardware? Why does Apple break all their services (iCloud, syncing, etc) for users who have an Air and managed not to installed a bloated mess version of iOS on it?

Planned obsolescence. The only reason is they want to break all the old hardware so people will have to buy new hardware.

 

[dewski]

That would be fine if consumers didn’t constantly want thinner, lighter, sexier devices that are waterproof. And before you say they don’t - they totally do.

I don't think they really do. I have never known anyone to even comment on the thinness of a phone in 5 plus years. They got thin enough with the iPhone 5. Everything since then are just companies telling us what we want when we really don't care.

 

[DevNull0]

Do you even buy iPhones and iPads? If so, why?

I bought an iPad 4, I never really used it much don't like it and don't ever see myself buying another tablet. I got it within a month of it coming out and I doubt I've got 100 cycles on the battery.

I do buy iPhones basically as mac accessories, and for basic connectivity way from my MBP. Quick email check, etc. I like that it syncs easily with notes, calendar, etc. I don't use 90% of what the iPhone can do and I'm just not that interested in it. I don't really care if I have an iPhone or Android, but I buy iPhones because they work well with my macs.

Macs on the other hand are the core of my digital life, I do care a lot about them, I've used them over 20 years and they're why I'm an Apple customer, why I'm on this forum, and why I even own an iPhone and bought that iPad 4.

 

[firewood]

So now you've got insight into Apple's inner workings?

Likely more insight than the conspiracy theorist here who think Apple executives have been purposefully planning to degrade older products for nefarious motives. We're all mind readers.

 

[deferredAnon]

Likely more insight than the conspiracy theorist here who think Apple executives have been purposefully planning to degrade older products for nefarious motives. We're all mind readers.

iPhone 6/6S users were throttled by Apple on January 23, 2017 without anyone's knowledge or consent. There is your conspiracy.

P.S. Please don't talk behind my back.

 

[macTW]

If there is a rapid change in available tech over a few years that makes the old device obsolete. That is not planned obsolescence. It's simply the device becoming obsolete. A 12" tube based black and white TV is obsolete even if it works as well today as the day it was made.

Planned obsolescence is where the company renders a device unusable deliberately even though the tech itself is still up-to-date enough that it's not worth replacing otherwise. Few people with an iPhone 6s that worked as well as it did when brand new would buy a new iPhone today, there's just not enough difference between the 6s and the 8/x. The 6s tech is just not at all obsolete. Forcing the 6s to be obsolete either with the battery/throttling issue or making the OS run slower on older hardware is planned obsolescence. And it both is and should be illegal. It's horrible for the environment and horrible for consumers and the economy.
[doublepost=1515522037][/doublepost]

That may or may not be true. The fact that they are busted now with their battery scheme doesn't mean they weren't crippling phones on purpose before and it doesn't mean they were.

You seem to think that because Apple is guilty for sure now, it proves they're somehow innocent of all the past accusations that were never proven or disproven.

It is illegal.

But it doesn’t happen. At least, Apple isn’t doing anything close to that.

 

[-BigMac-]

Of course not. We were able to keep our Macs on OS 10.6 as long as we wanted to maintain Rosetta there was no push to force uses onto newer OSes so there was no issue. If you had a need for PPC you could keep it.

And it certainly would have been an issue had Apple tried to force it. I remember Quicken was one App that people were attached to that had no Intel Mac version for a good 10 years, a lot of people did avoid upgrading to keep PPC apps running.

But now, mac and iPhone, you have a very hard time not updating the OS thanks to Apple's BS.

And another reason your example is just silly....the switch to Intel was 13 years ago, PPC really is ancient legacy code now. The end of 32 bit apps happened on THE CURRENT VERSION OF iOS, 32-bit Apps are out of date, but they're not ancient legacy code that users have had over a decade to replace.

Sorry, most of your statement is based around this one sentence, care to elaborate?
[doublepost=1515533712][/doublepost]

4: It allows Apple to force updates onto iOS devices and then cripple their performance thus forcing iPhone upgrades and planned obsolescence.....

Covered this in a previous post.

More demanding OS does not equal same performance on less capable Hardware.
[doublepost=1515533788][/doublepost]

Lol. Have you seen the constant nagging from iOS to update? And having to click the tiny (almost hidden) text "Remind me later" and then it says it will update between 9pm and 5am unless you cancel out of that too?

This is true - the process is an annoying one.

My girlfriends iPhone is constantly connected to wifi, she is still running ios10.

Impossibru?? Nope.
[doublepost=1515534079][/doublepost]

I am sorry? So what you are saying is that I should expect to compromise performance of the phone just to receive the latest security updates? That certainly seems like 'planned obsolescence' to me, not providing a choice. And tell me, where exactly in the terms and conditions did the owner agree that this update will affect negatively on their phone's performance?

The only 'logic' here seems to be that 'Our update will slow down your phone needlessly, but you need it to protect against security threats.'

And what example doesn't make sense? Have you ever used a PC, or bought one? You having 302 apps or 2 apps will not impact nor change your iPhone's performance in any manner. Reality!

You are completely out of date on all 3 points - we dont have to agree, but please base your opinion on fact and common sense.

Is Microsoft pushing Security updates for Windows 98? Planned obsolescence. I loved windows 98 - time to complain I have to update.

Whats that? If i update to windows 10 on my windows 98 machine I will lose performance?
Whats my 256mb of ram got to do with it? It should have equal performance despite the OS taking up 2gb ram at idle.
Planned obsolescence.

Do you see how quickly your argument falls apart?

5 year old hardware will not run this years OS as well as it did 5 years ago OS.

Pps. Having 1% free space does slow down your phone as a whole bunch of background processes kick in to try and manage the left over space. Okay
[doublepost=1515534329][/doublepost]

No one is saying that apple has to support 5 year old hardware. Just make the new iOS not cripple last years phone.

I agree 100%, last years iPhone should not be slowed.

iPhone 5/s maybe even 6? thats understandable to have to comprimise to meet todays increasing OS demands

 

[Michael Goff]

Really, lots of reasons, huh.

For a user who doesn't care about installing apps that won't work on an older OS and believes the feature set of the older version is better for them, give me one reason besides security why upgrading to the latest OS is of benefit **to the users** not to Apple, not to the app devs, not to the phone carriers, but to the actual users who are paying for the phones.

I agree security is one reason, but you said there's lots of reasons.
[doublepost=1515529542][/doublepost]

Well then...why won't Apple allow the iPad Air user to install the iOS version that works best with their hardware? Why does Apple break all their services (iCloud, syncing, etc) for users who have an Air and managed not to installed a bloated mess version of iOS on it?

Planned obsolescence. The only reason is they want to break all the old hardware so people will have to buy new hardware.

They don’t let you install an older OS because A) Security B) Marketing and C) Costs.

 

[aevan]

I don't think they really do. I have never known anyone to even comment on the thinness of a phone in 5 plus years. They got thin enough with the iPhone 5. Everything since then are just companies telling us what we want when we really don't care.

You have never known? Do you know millions of people?

Companies don’t care if it’s thin or not, as long as they sell phones. They would make a 5cm thick phone if there was a market for it.

But they do studies, research, tests etc to see what people prefer. The fact no one specifically asked for a thinner phone doesn’t mean much if most people choose the thinner prototype in A/B testing, for example. Also, people often say one thing but their wallets say a different thing.

The truth is we don’t have the data and everything we think people want is biased and based around our personal circles. The one and only reason Apple is making thin, premium phones is because they believe people want them, not because they have some agenda or anything. And based on the number of phones they sell, I can only imagine they are pretty good at guessing what people want.

Do you honestly believe they are deliberately making a phone different from what people want just because they prefer it another way? That’s not how you run a succesful business.

 

[DevNull0]

They don’t let you install an older OS because A) Security B) Marketing and C) Costs.

A) Total BS, if that were the case make you click a warning box like MacOS gatekeeper. Not everyone cares or fills their 5 year old iPad (as we were talking about) with personal data, and not every 5 year old iPad needs to connect to the internet. If it's an old iPad to play games on, what is the security issue?

B) Exactly, marketing, as in ruin the old hardware to market the new hardware more easily. ie Planned Obsolescence. As I've been saying all along, the only reason you can't install the old OS is they want to break old hardware as fast as possible.

C).What costs? The OS exists, Apple has to go to extra trouble to prevent you from installing it.